How Blizzard used the dungeon system to change Oculus
by Mike Schramm 
Nov 14th 2009 at 2:00PM
That's very interesting, and it tells that (at least on the PTR if not on the actual live realms) Blizzard can more easily get information from the new dungeon system about which instances players are running. That could have all kinds of ramifications -- if they see a lot of Scarlet Monastery runs coming through, or see that no one at all is visiting Maraudon, we may see even more updates coming to those kind of places. And they can use that feedback for future dungeons as well. It'll be interesting to see what kinds of patterns for instance running arise on the live realms -- obviously there's a lot of interest in the "random" dungeon function (that rewards you for running random instances), but that's still weighted towards what instances you've already done. We may see more changes coming to current dungeons depending on what kinds of information Blizzard gets after the patch 3.3 release.
Patch 3.3 is the last major patch of Wrath of the Lich King. With the new Icecrown Citadel 5-man dungeons and 10/25-man raid arriving soon, patch 3.3 will deal the final blow to Arthas. WoW.com's Guide to Patch 3.3 will keep you updated with all the latest patch news.Filed under: Fan stuff, Virtual selves, Instances, Bosses, Wrath of the Lich King
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
muddy Nov 14th 2009 2:08PM
Too little to late.
WoW players are conditioned to avoid the broken instances and will do so even after "a fix" has been introduced.
Falcon6 Nov 14th 2009 2:34PM
Not entirely true. If one of the big patches decides to do a huge update to old world dungeon content to make it more manageable and make leveling through just dungeon-crawling more fun, people would probably be so excited about it that those instances would be the more popular of the others for a time.
Is Occulus broken? No. I can get through the dungeon just fine. A "broken" dungeon would be a dungeon that's literally impossible to clear.
Would it do well with some small nerfs to manage those pugs that might not know how to drake-ride? Eh, sure, I suppose. I'd rather the difficult-to-pug dungeon content be because the bosses are hard for the player with usual mechanics, not hard for the player with a new, not as popular mechanic.
PeeWee Nov 14th 2009 4:54PM
"make leveling through just dungeon-crawling more fun..."
It's not about fun. It's about the fact that speed-questing is so much faster than parking your ass and trying to find a group and hope the tank that just joined isn't on his first char and shows up with an Arms-specc and a big 2H-axe. It's so much faster to either be pulled through the instance by a high-level, or just skip the instance altogether. Most people level to start raiding at 80. That doesn't say that there are no people at all trying to level, but take a look at the LFG once, and see what people ask for.
We'll just have to see what the new LFG system does for this. For levelling, I'll prolly avoid it, rather than ending up with an italian newb from Hakkar that doesn't speak any english.
Cyanea Nov 14th 2009 5:05PM
I always felt kinda sad about Oculus, because it really is a creative instance, and it's nice to do more than just "tank pulls, kill boss, go to next trash group". But the vehicle portions of that place really needed more work. It's not so bad now, but back at the beginning, the fight against the last boss on heroic required EVERYONE to know EXACTLY what to do. One fuck up, and it's a wipe.
And it always pisses me off that summoning your drakes are limited by combat. More than once, my group has pulled a flying blue drake while on the ground and can't do anything against it but wipe and come back in.
Mr. Tastix Nov 14th 2009 9:41PM
I didn't mind Oculus too much and I may even try it with these new changes (in live). Oculus was not entirely hard, just annoying because of vehicle combat.
Vehicle Combat. Something which had a decent concept but was integrated badly.
ultimate_force Nov 14th 2009 2:12PM
Broken instances? I wouldn't call them broken - I would just say they aint as popular as the rest.
Oculus takes more effort imo with all the drake flying, dismounting and mounting and if you have one person in your group who fails at the last boss its a wipe fest.
Mauradon is just a mission to get to for the lower levels since levelling is so fast paced compared to what it used to be, most people just skip Mara all together. Or will get in a group for it then nobody can be bothered to go to the stone.
Esau Nov 14th 2009 2:22PM
Nerfing it isn't the fix though.
I know I for one didn't bail out on my random PUG when I was dumped into Oculus because it's too hard, I bailed because I have a general dislike for the instance mechanics and layout.
The dungeon is an awkward mess and generally no fun at all.
A one shot boss does not fix that. ...removing it all together would.
starphaser Nov 14th 2009 2:28PM
I completely agree. Oculus is broken not in length or rewards but in the core mechanics of the instance itself.
Bizzy Nov 14th 2009 2:35PM
Yeah I agree that it's the mechanics & not the difficulty that's annoying. Riding around on drakes in an instance sounded cool but ended up being no fun at all. Oculus isn't even enjoyable.
Dazaras Nov 14th 2009 8:09PM
It's the three dimensions, they get confusing. If even one person gets separated from the group, then it's all over. Making the bosses easier doesn't help this, I have no idea why anyone would think it would. Making the random flying dragons easier helps a little bit, because getting separated inevitably means aggroing one of them.
What I don't get is why Blizz decided that flying combat was too broken for WG, but not for Oculus, because that makes so much sense.
Damn Dirty Ape Nov 16th 2009 8:48AM
Get rid of the random flying drakes and I wouldn't mind Oculus so much. I just hate clearing all those pointless flying things because usually someone ends up getting killed and we have to wait for them to run back, run to get a new drake, and then meet back up with us (hopefully not aggroing more blue drakes on the way).
Max Nov 14th 2009 2:26PM
I find this article very interesting.
I think Mike may well be right that Blizz will be able to monitor Instance popularity better, at least I hope so ^^
Good job:>
chione Nov 14th 2009 2:29PM
Oculus is at its core a gimmick dungeon, and that is the issue.
It's a bit better now that the mounts scale with gear, but it is still generally un-fun and I won't even touch it if it's the daily. I will eventually have to seriously do it for the heroic dungeon achievements, but those are definitely the last on my list and I'll have to rope some reluctant friends to do it -_-;
Also, the fact that it's a gimmick dungeon (and in three dimensions, no less) requires coordination and if you're in a pug full of idiots all the scaling in the world is not going to help you.
rhorle Nov 14th 2009 6:02PM
Every instance is a gimmick dungeon. Occulus is no different then anything else. If you are going to claim to hate it with a passion at least state clearly why, the velhicles. People still have an irrational hatred of such mechanics when they are nothing but fun and add new things to the game.
If you are in a pug full of idiots you'll fall no matter what. Occulus is super easy, the only hard part about it is doing the voids. Its extremely easy to do the 20 min achievement with the 3.3 changes and isn't to hard now.
The instance is fine and easy, people just hate change and doing anything that doesn't allow them to go brain dead and get their free loot. They want the easy crap cause they want to be idiots. Anything that is hard is bad and needs nerfs or is broken.
mindor Nov 14th 2009 3:04PM
I have never heard such truer words. Personally, I love Oculus. It's an instance, where people are forced to do something other than push their 8 second channeled AoE spell. But in all honesty, this game, is just one large grind. Almost every aspect of the game, it's a time consumer. The reason people have such disdain for the instance, isn't because of the difficulty, or fail "pugs," because if you have a fail pug in almost any instance, it can be quite annoying.
However, the one aspect that makes this instance different, which is the drake vehicles, takes people out of their "comfort" zone that blizzard has given them due to little AoE being utilized. Different, is scary, and hense people don't like it. But in all honesty, it's not a difficult instance, the drake scaling on gear makes it even easier, and it's because of the difference in mechanics that makes Oculus my favorite instance of WotLK 5 man's.
Kylenne Nov 14th 2009 3:30PM
@ Mindor: People hate vehicle combat, particularly in Oculus, because it's *clunky and badly designed*. Not because it's "different" or because we're a mindless bunch of automatons conditioned to AoEing things to death. There are plenty of gimmicky fights and instances in this game that people love to death (despite what a pain in the arse they were before the nerfs, Vashj and TK!Kael fall under this category for me).
Vehicle combat at xpac launch was AWFUL. Just. Effing. Awful. An inelegant interface coupled with a myriad of stupid bugs and targeting issues. Damn near every quest that featured it was broken at least once, many of them repeatedly, and some of them still are. All those problems were magnified in Oculus, and hilariously that was meant to be "training" for the Malygos encounter. Look at the two least popular instances in Wrath, and what are they, again?
I mean, I hate vehicle combat on principle, but even I managed to like Flame Leviathan, because it was much, much better thought out. Blizzard has learned from their initial mistakes for the most part. Going back to Oculus after seeing vehicle implementation in Ulduar or even ToC jousting is like going back to the original vanilla start zones after experiencing Acherus.
Seriously, Oculus fans, you're starting to sound like you're married to this thing. Yes, the entire world (of Warcraf) hates your spouse. Let it go.
Chione Nov 14th 2009 3:59PM
@Kylenne: I feel the same about ToC and Ulduar. It seems like Blizz did a pretty good job of addressing vehicle issues and implementing them in a way that was (moderately) enjoyable for me. I certainly don't mind the ToC jousting and FL as much as Oculus or Maly p3.
Then again, this could be because they are 2D fights rather than 3D. It's a bit different when you need to control what height you're at in addition to where you are on the x and y.
Mindor Nov 14th 2009 8:55PM
@ Kylenne
Honestly, I just believe that's all an convenient excuse. It's not like "vehical combat" is new to Wrath. In either case, I sure do you hope you never playing a priest in any group I'm in. No Naxx for you!
Rich Nov 14th 2009 2:38PM
One of my biggest issues was with the drake riding in the instance. I REALLY dislike the vehicle combat introduced in WotLK. Gear Scaling or not, I leveled characters to use their abilities and play styles, not have some intermediate thing be how i play. I dislike Uldar and ToC for both those reasons. At least in Uldar its quickly over. ToC is a quick loot pinata so its bearable, but now I farmed it for the stuff I needed I don't run it unless its the daily.
I really dislike the gimmick stuff in games, I understand they come along because you can only do so much when you have 100's of "bosses". Oculus really rubs me the wrong way and I can't anyone to run it, which is fine because I avoid it like my crazy uncle.
murphraven Nov 14th 2009 3:04PM
I completely agree with the above. I don't dislike Oculus or other vehicle combat instances/fights because I think they're hard. It's because I leveled my class to play my class, and the vehicles have nothing to do with that.