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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsHow Blizzard used the dungeon system to change Oculus
by Mike Schramm 
Nov 14th 2009 at 2:00PM
That's very interesting, and it tells that (at least on the PTR if not on the actual live realms) Blizzard can more easily get information from the new dungeon system about which instances players are running. That could have all kinds of ramifications -- if they see a lot of Scarlet Monastery runs coming through, or see that no one at all is visiting Maraudon, we may see even more updates coming to those kind of places. And they can use that feedback for future dungeons as well. It'll be interesting to see what kinds of patterns for instance running arise on the live realms -- obviously there's a lot of interest in the "random" dungeon function (that rewards you for running random instances), but that's still weighted towards what instances you've already done. We may see more changes coming to current dungeons depending on what kinds of information Blizzard gets after the patch 3.3 release.
Patch 3.3 is the last major patch of Wrath of the Lich King. With the new Icecrown Citadel 5-man dungeons and 10/25-man raid arriving soon, patch 3.3 will deal the final blow to Arthas. WoW.com's Guide to Patch 3.3 will keep you updated with all the latest patch news.Filed under: Fan stuff, Virtual selves, Instances, Bosses, Wrath of the Lich King
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 3)
Mindor Nov 14th 2009 9:17PM
Vehicle combat is *NOT* new to wrath. Two words: Mind Control. Back before Wrath, mind control, was a form of crowd control, in 5 man heroics(and even certain raids). And crowd control, and knowing how to use it, was what separated the good players from the bad players, as if you were bad at CC you wiped the group. Vehicles are *not* new, and they're not going anywhere. So you don't have to like it, but you might want to get used to it. That's the world of warcraft that you play.
And as far as gimmicks are concerned, Ever boss in the game is a "gimmick." PvE is based off gimmicks, otherwise, it'd just be tank and spank, and people would get bored.
Rich Nov 14th 2009 9:35PM
Mind Control =/= Vehicle Combat.
I am glad you like the vehicle combat. I know its not going anywhere, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. I express my displeasure by not doing it unless I absolutely have too. Just being I hate it does not mean it needs to be taken out, it just means it will limit what I can do it in the game. That is perfectly fine by me.
mindor Nov 14th 2009 10:03PM
I can respect that. Luckily there is so much that this game offers that there is something for everyone. Unfortunately, not everyone is going to like everything. With the amount of players that play, Blizz simply just can't make everyone happy about everything.
However, this nerf, to an instance, that people are so vocal about and against, isn't going to change the fact people are going to *desert* and take the debuff, as stated elsewhere in this comment forum. And when I get Oculus in LFG I would rather the folk who don't want to run it, that they do desert. Because you being there, isn't going to enhance your gameplay, and you hating it, is not going to enhance my enjoyment of the instance. I would rather have 5 people who don't mind the place, and have fun with it, then a few people who don't want to be there, and are going to be curmudgeons about it. Not saying you in particular, but in general.
I mean, how would you feel, if you madly loved Wintergrasp, and got a raid full of folk complaining they don't like pvp. And then Blizz decided to give everyone who queues up for wintergrasp, the ability to one shot everything in the zone, so more people would join?
WoWie Zowie Nov 14th 2009 2:47PM
omg fail. how on earth are they only coming to the conclusion after a year how players feel about the dungeons? have they really been oblivious to how unpopular oculus was up until now? wow.com has been pinging player interest for so darn long and there have been numerous articles on how noone likes using vehicle (dragon) combat. wtf bliz?
slartibart Nov 14th 2009 4:50PM
Just because they haven't made a change until now, doesn't mean they weren't aware.
You realize your playing on their servers right? I'd assume the amount of data they have on the game, and popularity etc, far exceeds your anecdotal evidence.
WoWie Zowie Nov 14th 2009 5:19PM
o so they were ignoring us on purpose then. thx for the clarification
Eon Nov 14th 2009 3:06PM
Well the good thing is oculus is getting nerfed.
ToyChristopher Nov 14th 2009 3:06PM
Yes but I am afraid because they always seem to go overboard. Like, how everyone liked the ring of blood but then wotlk had four million quests that were the same.
Mike Nov 14th 2009 3:11PM
I wonder if these new facilities for monitoring a dungeon popularity will eventually be used throughout Cataclysm to decide which instances get the Heroic treatment?
Muse Nov 14th 2009 3:12PM
Occulus' problem isn't that it's a non-linear 3d dungeon or that it's a vehicle dungeon. It's that it's both at the same time. If we'd been on ground in a straight line towards the boss, the vehicles would've been easier to get a grip on. Likewise if we'd gotten wings and flown with our characters.
larsiezwei Nov 14th 2009 3:16PM
Worst Dungeon ever.
Alveredus Nov 14th 2009 3:19PM
The difficulty isn't the problem. As noted, the mechanics are what people hate.
But solving a problem doesn't always involve addressing the core issue, particularly on a tight timetable like the scant remainder of WotLK affords.
Their options were:
- Rework Occulus to exclude the hated mechanics. This addresses the ACTUAL problem but is a waste of dev resources.
- Allow players to skip Occulus or select a dungeon to exclude from random LFG. Aesthetically unpleasing.
- Tell players to suck it up and deal. Kinda misses the point of offering a game FOR player enjoyment. Also sours the LFG system they want to butter people up into embracing.
- Nerf the instance in such a way that people don't have to utilize the alternate mechanic that effectively and reduce the overall amount of time people spend in an instance they dislike.
They chose the last option which I think was the best.
PeeWee Nov 14th 2009 4:55PM
Players can still skip OC. I can only speak for myself but I'd rather take the 15-minute debuff and do a daily while it wears off than spend a second in that bloody place.
Frantyk Nov 14th 2009 4:00PM
Can Occulus be very easy? Yes. Is it a nightmare to pug? Hellz to the yes!
This is the only five-player dungeon that I refuse to run without vent. I do not want to spend the time typing out who should ride which drake and then how to use said drake. And then you have to wipe on the last boss at least once before the pugs understand how the drake mechanics are working. What's worse is the drakes do not begin with their full list of abilities. More than once have I argued with someone that the Emerald drake is the healing drake because the heal others ability is missing, untill the final boss. If the drakes were just an added way to travel around the instance, I think nobody would care. It's the final fight taking place on the drakes that pains people.
It's too bad that Zaryhm wasn't keen on the idea of better loot for Occulus because it does fit the harder instance, better reward schenario very well. If it dropped ilvl 232 loot, people would be lining up to learn how to run it. And eventually, most people would know how to use all the drakes. It is no different than riding on horseback in trial of the champion. It's an added pain. But any new level 80 toon is going to want to learn how to joust just so they can get their hands on that ilvl 219 loot instead of having to pug Naxxramas or Ulduar. Also, their guildmates are more likely to want to teach them how to joust, than they are to put together a Naxxramas 25 or Ulduar 10.
Blizzard just needs to realize that gimmicky things on trash are no big deal to us, but vehicle gimmicks in boss fights, that's a whole different story.
Zarzuur Nov 14th 2009 6:05PM
Surely they already have stats on what instances are launched/most popular.
Clydtsdk-Rivendare Nov 14th 2009 6:29PM
I've pugged Oculus twice. The first time I went from 100% dura to nothing before we finally got trash respawns and broke up, 80% of that being from Eregos. The second time I only died once and that was on a wipe, except the tank survived somehow and took down Urom healerless from about 35% to 0 (Tankadins, I salute you) so it wasn't really a wipe.
Granted, it is pretty gimmicky, but would you rather have, say, another Utgarde Pinnacle (the closest equivalent, being in a NR starting zone next to a ~70 dungeon like OC)? Where you can basically faceroll everything in your 245+ gear? I avoid Oculus simply because it's the hardest dungeon to get a group for, but given a chance, in a reasonably competent group (Rivendare doesn't have many "lolnoob" types) I would go.
Ianator Nov 14th 2009 8:48PM
I don't really get why people hate Oculus so much. Personally I like it. I mean seriously, you get to fly around on dragons. Even if the controls are a little clunky, its still a lot of fun. I think some people just can't get used to using anything except their actual characters spells. I think its just an instance that requires a bit more concentration and effort than the rest. An amount of effort that some players aren't willing to put out. Of course, everyone has their opinion, and if it makes you feel better to downrank someone just because you think differently than they do, feel free to.
Noctiluca Nov 15th 2009 3:49AM
No, it's because we spent 80 levels learning how to play our chosen class, not fly drakes which we have about 30 seconds to master the abilities on before we wipe.
Oculus and Eye of Eternity are retarded instances that rely on a stupid flying gimmick. I refuse to do either one of those places, guild run or pug. Doesn't matter. I got my achievements and I will never, ever set foot in either one of those places ever again.
aerinbear Nov 14th 2009 11:13PM
It's not mentioned much, but I think one of the worst sins in instance design is letting the players get lost. Oculus has this in spades. "Ok, now I take this portal that take me... somewhere" "Now I get on a dragon and fly... somewhere" "Now back on and.. up? down?"
It's not the only reason a dungeon can get unpopular, but it's a biggie. Who wants to wander around lost? The only confusing place folk still run is Sunken Temple. I think it's one of the reasons Gnomer is so hated, as opposed to say, ZF. ZF feels very open, but there are only a couple of choices, and you can tell where you are.
Ifschomen Nov 15th 2009 4:42AM
As for the Maraudon vs Scarlet Monastery argument, the solution couldn't be easier - make maps for dungeons of ALL levels. The main problem of many low level dungeons (like Maraudon, Underbog, maybe even Zul'farrak) is that it's rather hard to find one's way around it.
Just give us the maps, people!