Officers' Quarters: Cross-server LFG and you

With Patch 3.3, the new LFG interface will certainly reshape PUGs as we know (and loathe) them. This week, one reader wants to know how the new system might affect guilds.
Hi there Scott,
As we all know, patch 3.3 will bring many great things. As a guild leader, one of the new features makes me happy but also slightly worries me: the new LFG system.
Of course, it's a big boon to everyone and will greatly increase the chance of success of pugs (particularly the lower level dungeons), but it also takes away that what I liked about pugs: meeting new players from your own server.
A pug was a great way to meet somebody, a way to check if they would fit within your guild. Questions like "Do they have the required maturity for my guild?" or "Do they understand their class well enough for our raids?" were mostly always answered with one heroic pug. This is the way that I have met most of my guild members that make my current guild as it is: Enjoyable raiding and socially mature.
With the new LFG system, I'm sure a lot of suitable new players in dungeons will simply exist on another realm. A guild is mainly about spending time together with people that you get on with. And while the new system certainly allows for it, I just see it as lowering the chances of meeting new players.
What are your thoughts on this, and what of the readers?
Regards,
Isenda
80 Paladin
<Tempest>
EU-Argent Dawn
Hi, Isenda. To some extent, I share your concerns. I've touted PUGs for a long time as a great if sometimes painful way to find players to recruit. After all, who is more likely to PUG than players who aren't in a guild? And who is more likely to be looking for a guild than a player who doesn't currently belong to one?
A PUG immediately puts all the players involved in a fishbowl where mistakes and poor play are magnified. Now, dungeons are a heck of a lot easier in Wrath than in prior years, so there's much greater room for error. But that also means it's a real event when you wipe. Wipes shouldn't happen often in Wrath's 5-player content, so you can really find a glaring hole in someone's game when they do occur.
With the new system, most players will be running dungeons with random people from both their own server and other servers. PUGs will have a different vibe. I think the bad attitude in pick-up groups will actually increase. It's one thing if you're running with four other people on your server who might blacklist you for being a complete jerk. It's entirely another thing if you're running with four random people from other servers who you'll most likely never see again. It's a license to be a jackass.
So the first problem for officers looking to recruit people through PUGs will be, in my opinion, a generally worsening social situation.
The other problem that Isenda points to is that so many players won't be from your server at all. Yes, that will make it more difficult to recruit them, but it's not impossible. Server changes are pretty common these days. You won't be able to recruit cross-server players on the spot, but you could encourage them to roll an alt on your server. That way, they can check out your guild for a week or two before deciding whether they want to apply and subsequently transfer if they are accepted.
Realistically, your success rate will be lower. But try to think positive: It's a way to spread the word about your guild beyond the confines of your server.
As Isenda mentions, you can circumvent the system completely to make sure you don't wind up with players from another server. With the return of the LFG channel, you can find people from your own server to run with and then queue up for the random dungeon once your group has been formed. Basically it will be the same process you use now with the Trade channel.
In my opinion, players who look for groups using the LFG channel will be much more likely to be in the market for a new guild than players who just queue up to run with anybody. So think of it as a way to filter your results to give yourself the best chance of success.
Remember, also, that running PUGs may be a great way to meet recruits, but there are plenty of other methods. You can advertise on your server's forum and the Guild Recruitment forum for your faction. There's also the in-game Guild Recruitment channel. You can build awareness of your guild by running semi-PUG raids or any kind of event or contest you'd like to dream up. One last area of content that still requires people from your server is group quests. If all else fails, you can always offer to help people with these quests in order to get to know some future or fresh 80s.
What do you think about the new LFG system? Will it be a bigger problem for officers than we may think?
/salute
Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership)






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Sejarki Nov 23rd 2009 11:07AM
Honestly the exciting thing to me is possibly being able to run low level dungeons again.
Sigmanine Nov 23rd 2009 12:34PM
I can't wait; Have been wanting to do the lowbie dungeons on my level 27 warlock without being run though, and its almost impossible to find 4 other interested people in the proper level range. It's been ages since I've done an old-world dungeon without being run by a level 60+.
Templar Nov 23rd 2009 12:56PM
I agree. I'm looking forward to doing some of the ones that I haven't done in ages. Stratholm, I'm looking at you. Or perhaps a BRD run that we ACTUALLY FINISH IN THE PROPER LEVEL RANGE.
Deadly. Off. Topic. Nov 23rd 2009 1:08PM
At least be prepared that if you go with the right level frame that it'll be a couple of hours in there. I remember doing these instances in vanilla wow and they aren't the quick instance runs you get nowadays. BRD IS a nice instance, but it is HUGE.
Skonged Nov 23rd 2009 11:10AM
I see the problem...
"Regards,
Isenda
80 Paladin"
I kid I kid.
scotlee Nov 23rd 2009 11:14AM
Am rather dreading it. Pug dynamics are the least favorable part of the game to me though a hard to avoid one. The increased anonymity factor will surely be problematic and will prompt a need for something like a player rating system ala ebay. Probably not where Blizzard wants to go but it may be necessary.
If I could avoid groups with players known to be problematic, i.e. a low score, then my life in Warcraft would take a significant notch up.
As it pertains to my guild, I agree with the author that it will diminish the value of one of the better recruiting tools. While there are others, this was a favored.
Tenjin Akuma Nov 23rd 2009 11:19AM
A ratings system has a kind of genius to it, actually ... players in this game take pride in achieving just about every other metric (gear score, achievement points, all that), so why not take pride in being a "provably" good pugger?
Of course, steps would need to be taken to make "gaming" the system non-trivial. Otherwise you'd just have ninjas grouping up with their friends and voting each other up.
curtisrutland Nov 23rd 2009 11:24AM
Player-driven rating systems would be _fraught_ with problems. Trolls downranking everyone, every single time. People with grudges organizing others to downrank one person to oblivion. Conspiring with friends or possibly even purchasing support to raise your own rating.
That's the last place Blizz would want to go. Just look at the BG Report AFK feature. People use it all the time to troll or harass, or just use it wrong because they're stupid.
Maybe there could be some official stats kept on you, like successes vs. attempts, and average time per instance, stuff like that.
Brad Nov 23rd 2009 12:27PM
I think the rating system could work but to prevent trolls and ninjas ranking eachother up, it would be smart to limit it to cross-server players being able to rate you. I.e. Your guildie couldn't rate you up or down and the troll from your server that you hate couldn't rate you either. There would still be some fault to the system but it would eliminate most grudges and such.
Keeping stats on people would be a good idea too but I don't think avg time/run etc. would be accurate measures. Blizzard integrated an Omen-like feature into WoW, why not integrate a Recount-like feature? It could keep stats like average tps, dps, and hps for certain players (and possibly just tracked for bosses). Of course this would have to have a limit also like only keeping track of the last 15 runs or so to try and throw out leveling/gear change effects.
dwarfish Nov 23rd 2009 12:33PM
Actually I think you could kind of get around that by making those ratings only apply to you personally. No one elses ratings for that person would matter - yes it would be painful the first time because you dont get that heads up from other players but you then know you can at least trust the rating.
Vitos Nov 23rd 2009 12:43PM
I like the official system- blizz can probably hack together a formula that takes gear, successful runs etc... into account. There would be ways to circumvent that however- but such issues would be minor. Combine the ratings from wow-heroes or something like that with an achievement checker or pug-checker to see how well the individual players will function. The most important part by far in figuring out how good they are would be their death ratio as compared to other players in their groups, that way noobs who are skilled are less likely to have bad scores due to having crap for gear...
Deadly. Off. Topic. Nov 23rd 2009 1:14PM
There was an add-on called Karma that did something like this, let you keep your own personal notes and ratings on players.
I wouldn't mind getting something similar so that I could have my own personal "black book" to keep track of pugs and friends.
Monsoon Nov 23rd 2009 3:24PM
City of Heroes/Villains has a personal rating system. You can assign a character 1 to 5 stars, then add a comment to them. The rating will show up on all their alts on the same account, and since it's only on your computer they don't even have to know that you've rated them one star for their blatant Batman ripoff.
JBluntz Nov 23rd 2009 4:47PM
Not a perfect solution, obviously, but Blizz has got your back (taken from the patch notes, User Interface section):
A Player will not be placed in a group with people on his or her Ignore list.
Ignore List: The amount of characters a person can ignore has been increased to 50. In addition, players on other realms can be placed on the Ignore list.
Snuzzle Nov 23rd 2009 10:14PM
@curtisrutland
A very simple solution is to only make the ratings option available to people who have been randomly selected by the LFG to group with you. Problem solved. Just like how on eBay you can only give a person feedback if you've transacted with them.
Either have it be an option when you right-click a portrait, or have it pop up when you leave the group or something.
This prevents friends from ranking you up, and also prevents trolls from ranking you down.
It doesn't, however, prevent people from leaving bitter feedback if they're in a sour mood, or if you won the loot they wanted, or if they just plain feel like being an ass. But it does prevent the two main problems, and simply making it so anyone can see the feedback a person has left others (again, like eBay) would help immensely.
I don't really see a feedback system working, but if they were going to implement it, that would be the way to go about it, I think.
Whycantweallbenicetoeachother Nov 24th 2009 12:39PM
I don't know if this change is the answer, but at present when I have to PUG it makes me wonder why I play this game at all.
The typical PUGer just wants the damn run over as soon as possible. Usually everyone in the group is completely silent apart from the odd "faster plz" and "more dps". As the general level of kit has escalated, heroics are generally easymode. Hence every and any death is met with "ffs", " and wtf?!!??" comments, flinging blame around to all corners. Often this seems to come from people gearing alts who have forgotten that this is supposed to be a challenge (and fun because of it) as they are so used to facerolling with their main who probably vastly out gears all heroics. Free epics plox, now, and heaven help us if the team that doesn't out gear the instance by a mile - where people might have to, you know, think, or not stand in the fire, or help the tank out by hitting the skull.
Personally, I miss the old BC days when heroic instances were pretty hard and it was unusual (noteworthy) to go through a run without any deaths at all. Everyone _had_ to work together - you couldnt just dps flat out as the tank was spreading their threat around 5-6 mobs and you would likely pull then get one/two shoted. You had to focus fire, follow the tank, cc, help the healer by moving... Now its just a remorseless pursuit of badges in the least possible amount of time with some added shouting.
My personal solution has been to give up PUGing unless its absolutely necessary. I have 5 RL friends in my guild and will run stuff when they're on - we often 3 man heroics without a problem, although it takes a while. And you know what, its actually FUN because its hard.
Having just re-read what I've written, I actually doubt i'll ever use this new system - PUGing is just too unpleasant and the increased anonymity will just encourage even more vile conduct. Until there is some mechanism for dealing with this in game, i'll ignore the MMO side of the game as much as possible and stick with my guildies.
Rugus Nov 23rd 2009 11:18AM
Does LFG tool (3.3) work with raids too... or it's a dungeons-only tool?
Verit Nov 23rd 2009 11:22AM
Dungeon only. At Blizzcon they said this could work for raids, but they want to do it for 5 mans only for a while to make sure all the bugs are worked out.
Sinthar Nov 23rd 2009 11:24AM
I BELEIVE but am not sure that the LFG is just for dungeons, and there will be a new LFR interface too - but havent got time to check the patch notes etc atm.
kabshiel Nov 23rd 2009 12:29PM
The main issue with a cross-server LFR tool is that raids aren't always completed in one sitting. If you had to hang it up in the middle, it'd be difficult to organize cross-server to restart it later. Basically you have a lot more to lose from a fail raid than a fail 5-man.