Officers' Quarters: Casual raiding 2009

I feel like it's been a while since I wrote a column about casual raiding. I posted a four-part guide to making it work back in April 2008. Since then, I've pointed most people who write me about this topic in that direction without writing a full column on their questions. A lot has changed in WoW since then! It feels like the right time to revisit the topic.
First, here is this week's e-mail:
Scott,
First, let me thank you for publishing such a wonderful column. I read it religiously and find the topics and information extremely helpful. I am writing to you with a problem in the hopes you may have some advice.
Let me start from the beginning to give you a more clear picture. Pre-Wrath Currahee had a solid core group of players and we were progressing forward with heroics and beginning to enter Kara. About this time the guild began to crumble as the core players left for raiding guilds that were progressing into further content. Wrath comes out and most of our core players are gone, those that remained leave within a few months after Wrath is released. This summer, the guild leader handed over the reigns to me and left the guild to focus on school as he was returning to college. There was a drop in membership as he left (from about 100 to around 50), though the ranks have held pretty steady, increasing by a few players under my leadership.
Today I am facing unrest in the guild as folks are unhappy that there is "never anyone online". I do my best to recruit, I have posted on the official forums, setup an account on WoWHeadhunter, I have joined forces with a small guild <Punisher> on my server to run ToC 5-Man on a near nightly basis. As we typically only have 4 members online, we usually have to find our 5th. If they are any good, I ask if they are interested in joining Currahee (no new recruits from this method yet).
So my question is this... I see our ranks diminishing, I see unrest within the ranks, and I care that my members are unhappy but don't see an immediate solution. There are 57 members for 26 accounts, with differing schedules and such it is entirely possible that someone may be the only member online. I can proceed as I am, knowing that Currahee is a social guild and that it will build at it's own pace, or I can try other means to recruit new players. Please help me understand the best path...
Myself and the other main player have pretty strict schedules with regards to availability, this schedule doesn't really lend its hand to hard core raiding. I am very content with running 5-man Heroics and helping others where I can. I do not want to dedicate 3+ days a week at 3-4 hours a sitting to get the highest end gear available in the game. I am not opposed to doing raids, it just has to be very casual raiding!
Sincerely,
Miraposa
<Currahee>
Quel'dorei
Hi, Miraposa. I have good news and bad news for you. The good news is that there has never been a better time to raid casually in WoW than right now.
First of all, with all content available for only 10 people, you don't need a big team in order to raid. If you have 26 people in your guild as you state, you need less than 50% attendance on a given night (assuming you can cover tanking and healing requirements) in order to make a raid happen. That isn't asking too much.
You should, of course, schedule these raids ahead of time and ask people to sign up for them using the in-game calendar or an add-on like Group Calendar. That way you can make sure you'll have a decent amount of people.
Even if you're short, you should be able to find players to fill your remaining slots, as you do for the ToC dungeon currently. Players are much more willing to PUG raids than ever in WoW's history. On my server, I've seen PUGs for every raid dungeon there is, including hard modes, with the single exception of Heroic ToC25.
Another change that has been a big help for casual raiding guilds is the lockout switch. You can now choose not to reset your raid on Tuesday morning. That way, if you get stuck or you don't have time to finish, you can continue your run next week without having to start over.
ToC (and Onyxia) can easily be finished in a single night if you've learned the encounters. While you're still learning, however, you have the option now to skip the reset. When Icecrown Citadel is released, you can choose to farm early bosses or progress through the instance from week to week as you see fit. So even if you're on a very limited schedule of raiding one or two nights per week, you can still eventually clear every available raid, no matter how large.
Finally, there is the gear factor. Again, you have it much easier these days than in prior years. The emblem system allows you to save up for meaningful upgrades by running any Heroic dungeon or raid. And if you've been gearing up in the Champion dungeon, you already have quite a few Ulduar-level pieces. You should already have a solid foundation of gear in order to beat ToC10. The gear requirements in there, at least on the normal setting, are fairly forgiving.
All in all, you have the tools and means at your disposal to raid on your own terms and to do so successfully. Take advantage of it!
I mentioned earlier that there was also bad news. The bad news for your guild is that raiding has become so accessible that it is practically essential, even for a mostly social PvE guild, to raid something at some level. So if you choose not to raid, you will continue to bleed players and your recruiting efforts will fall short more often than not.
The vast majority of players just aren't content to run dungeons anymore. I don't want to say that all guilds must "raid or die." There are alternatives, such as PvP and roleplaying. But if you're leading a PvE guild and you aren't raiding, you will attract only the players who aren't interested in raiding at all -- and in my experience those players are very hard to find these days. Maybe I'm just out of touch with that demographic, but I don't encounter or even hear about very many anywhere in the WoW community.
Now, before you jump into it, I would highly recommend reading through the casual raiding guide I mentioned above. The nine points that I list there are still very applicable today.
My mantra is that casual raiding does not equal lazy raiding. Your members still need to put an effort into learning and equipping their characters in order to succeed. As the guild leader, it will be your responsibility to impress on your players that they can't just waltz into a raid completely unprepared and expect to one-shot every boss. It just doesn't work that way, even with raid bosses generally being much easier than they have been in the past.
Fortunately, it doesn't take all that much effort to get ready, either. Gem and enchant your gear in a way that makes sense, use your talent points wisely for a PvE setting, understand what your class is expected to do, and you're pretty much there. These are all things most players do anyway. Bring consumables, watch some videos of the fights and/or read up on the encounters, and you're golden.
If your players are more focused on the social aspects of WoW than player performance, they may need some help from you, as the guild leader, to figure out where to get critical information about their class. When you're asking your players to be prepared, it's important to be willing to lend a hand in preparing them.
Your goal should be to have fun while you raid, without letting lazy or clueless individuals drag the group down. All it takes to ruin a 10-player group is one or two people who didn't put in the same effort as others and who didn't seek out any help. Stay on top of your raiders. Make sure they are putting in the minimum effort and you will do well.
Not everyone in your guild will be willing to put in that minimum effort. And that's OK. They just shouldn't expect to raid with you. Set a low-bar standard, like having your gear gemmed and enchanted, and enforce it. That will send a message that you don't want to waste your raiders' time by carrying zero-effort players.
Over the Thanksgiving holiday, I spoke with a friend's father who was complaining about his former guild. The officers gradually transformed the organization from a very casual raiding guild to a very strict raiding guild. Eventually the officers were asking players to submit monthly updates about their character's progress to make sure everyone was keeping pace.
You don't have to take it nearly that far! You don't have to put massive pressure on anyone to put out 7000 DPS or be benched. You don't have to stick anyone's character under a microscope. All it takes to beat the normal endgame bosses today is a little bit of work and knowledge on everyone's part.
I suggest, for the long-term survival of your guild, that you at least give raiding a try. Your players will have a reason to log in, you'll have brand new experiences to share with your guildmates, and you'll have a much easier time adding players to the roster.
/salute
Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership), Raiding






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
OneWing Nov 30th 2009 1:20PM
Would the new answer to "casual PvE" guild be an achievement-based guild, instead of a "casual raiding" guild? Achievements can be a lot of fun in a group setting. You can "schedule" achievement goals much more loosely than a raid. You can still have a sense of accomplishment and a social atmosphere, and you don't ever have to get a certain number of people online at the same time, nor do you have to leave anyone out at any time. There is no pressure on people to meet a certain skill standard (mostly), and group composition is typically unimportant.
I'm kind of shocked I haven't seen anyone try this. Has anyone ever heard of this?
visitingl337n00b Nov 30th 2009 3:35PM
An "achievement" guild would be a 25-man raiding guild working on hardmodes. That's where most of the achievement points are (since such a guild can easily work on 10-man achievements as well). There just aren't many achievements that require more than 1 player that aren't raiding or battleground achievements, and raid and BG achievements require dedicated skilled players (not all of them, but if you want to get a lot of points they do). Even being in a dedicated and successful 10-man raiding guild I am really struggling to find a path to get the 9000 point feat of strength that is coming, and that's with every Naxx 10-man and nearly every ulduar 10-man achievement and probably hundreds of hours invested into BGs.
If you are only going for easy achievements, or you are doing things with no particular skill standard, why would you need the support of a guild? Even just going for Glory of the Raider requires people with some skill and practice (or people who raid to overgear them). A nice friendly casual guild will help people get achievements, I'm sure, but I don't see the niche for a guild that focuses on them, since focusing on raiding and/or PvP is the way to get most of the points.
makebooms Nov 30th 2009 4:09PM
The whole point of a casual, social guild is that you don't NEED the guild, you prefer it for the social aspect. Hardmodes are actually a very small percentage of the achievement points you can get. Think of all the fun you could have getting the holiday meta achievements with a group of people that you have fun playing with, without the pressure of getting it done before raid time. Or instead of spamming guild chat with questions about which bracers you should be wearing, asking about that cute new vanity pet that you saw in Dalaran.
Wrath created a different class of casual. Just as they opened up raiding to casual players, they created a whole slew of achievements to point out the casual gameplay themes that already existed while also adding more casual play elements that are well "below" the raiding curve.
The whole reason my GF won't join a guild right now is because of the elitist attitude that any achievement worth having requires 25 people working together flawlessly and the pressure that can come with that. She likes farming for vanity pets and mounts. If you put her in a group of people clearing Strat repeatedly for the Baron mount, and let her squeal in fear at the spiders to her hearts content, and said, "Hey, just spam Rain of Fire on my head," She'd love it. No one critiquing her gear or her build. No one needing her to be online at a certain time (because they are easy and they don't NEED her to be there at the top of her game).
The obvious slack-jawed answer to this is to tell her to go play Hello-Kitty or Pokemon crap. But she likes WoW. And WoW has many elements that cater specifically to her playstyle. She can't be alone in this. Why not have a guild for it?
Jed Nov 30th 2009 4:20PM
Dude.. that sounds frikin awesome! lol. I like the idea a lot. An achievement based guild... hmm i might just have to give that a try:)
Sparcrypt Nov 30th 2009 8:17PM
@makebooms
Sounds like she just needs the right guild.
Our guild runs as thus: almost anyone can join as long as they're reasonably mature, ie, we're not interesting in 13 year olds that act like idiots. Or 30 year olds that act like idiots. There are standards if you want to come on raids (as there should be). But if you don't noone cares what your gear or build is or what you do with your time.
We have one pally who logs on a few times a week, chats in guild and runs strath over and over for the mount. We sometimes take him on heroics and things to get him some gear but mostly he just does his own thing. Now if he wanted to raid with us, we'd point him in the direction of our pally class leader and have them work out where he needs to get to before that's going to happen. But doing as he is, he's fine.
Honestly I don't know WHY guilds are so obsessed with every member being elite or whatever. We have our raid teams and yeah, those you might not get into until you reach a certain level.. but if you want to hang out in gchat and have fun doing random stuff around the world on your own or with a couple others, why would anyone mind?
Jennifer Nov 30th 2009 1:21PM
I come from a casual guild as well and while we are a happy family and I would never leave them, I have found myself yearning for the Kara days of old. So I have started pugging raids on my server and I can tell you from experience that it can be done!
What I really wanted to comment about, however, was a suggestion. One thing that has really worked on my server was to have a channel that you can use to communicate with people that you pug with and want to pug with again. Then when you are ready to run a pug, you can pull from that channel first. The channel may start small, but it will grow if you are consistant. As a pug-raider, I have two channels that I'm a part of, and it allows me to connect with other people outside my guild who are looking for fellow raiders.
Good luck!
jtrack3d Nov 30th 2009 1:27PM
Yes, we do the same. Create a channel with an easy to remember name, but unique. They can /join channelname and it stays joined unless they leave it.
As raid leader, I also keep a friends list of PuGs we like and I use add-on Notes-U-Need to keep notes on who does what and how good they are and if they are wipe-tolerant as we learn new content.
If they are wipe tolerant and we wipe a lot on new content, I will send them gold in the mail and a thank you note after the raid (never before).
Always send them thank you notes.
Jennifer Nov 30th 2009 1:35PM
Ooh, good ideas! I've never had a guild send me thank you notes, but that's okay. :)
The other thing (just occured to me), is that if you don't have a vent or TS channel, you should get one. And it should probably be the one that most people have on your server (on my server, it's Vent).
The reason I say this is that in the past couple weeks since I started really put-raiding, I've noticed that there are two types of pug-raids.
The first is the group that gets together, the leader types out, "Everyone know their jobs? Okay, go!" And then we falter and people drop out and it'll generally be bad.
The second type is the group where you are invited onto their vent server and the leader starts by asking anyone who hasn't done the raid to whisper them so he/she knows how much to explain, then goes over loot rules and is talkative (but calm) throughout the raid. I mean, like explaining what went right and what went wrong and stuff. Like Scott says - treating the raid like a serious raid.
What I'm trying to say is that as a raid-pugger, I can tell immediately what kind of raid it will be by how the leader starts out - and if they are serious enough to set up a vent server for communication, the odds are in their favor. Just another suggestion. ;)
Wolftech Nov 30th 2009 2:03PM
On Proudmoore, we have the Proudmoore Guild Alliance that has attracted many smaller guilds. We share a common channel and have several raiding groups from 10 man easy modes to progressing on 25 man heroics. Its like PuGgging with less chance of a crappy experience (and we all get to know each other).
Jennifer Nov 30th 2009 1:23PM
TBH, I suspect that that system will be a lot more viable when Cataclysm comes out and guilds can actually grow through the acheivements of their members. I know my guild will be having a lot of fun with that option, even though we are a casual guild and don't raid often.
zappo Nov 30th 2009 2:46PM
The reverse may also be true however. Most non uber servers typically have a LOT of guilds that are too small to accomplish a whole lot. Usually there's a few talented people, a bunch of people who are.. not so talented, and so forth. Guild accomplishments may lock this up tighter with people being even less willing to randomly PuG because it doesn't lead to their guild progressing.
jtrack3d Nov 30th 2009 1:24PM
If you schedule it, they will come is the motto I have learned. First, I polled the guild to find when the right time was for the majority of players to coincide. If you have little overlap, you just have to decide then. And, unfortunately, you can't please everyone's schedule.
Pick a fixed raiding schedule and stick to it. Not everyone can make that exact schedule, but the expectation make a difference (ex. we raid from 7-10pm, Mon / Wed / Friday). Our guild like a strict cutoff time because we all work. You can rotate content from diff. days in case some people can't do certain days.
Then, as you advertise for members. You say. We raid this content on these days and are looking for these classes.
Finally, as raid leader... PuG the missing numbers on raid night. Start in advance of the event. You scheduled it, you provide it. Make it happen even if there are only 3 of you and 7 of them. If it goes badly and it sometimes will, you call it. But at least you provided something. If people from your guild are late, fill their slots... the show must go on and people will respect you for making it happen. This is the reason few people raid lead because that's where the work is.
Rob Nov 30th 2009 1:56PM
This is pretty golden. As a RL/coGM i am always trying to accomidate both the progression oriented and the very casual 'lets raid' people. I would say start with one night a week for two hours. Do OS10 at first. Its the easier raid and quick. Success breeds success.
One other issue is that of doing advanced raids. Well, we have many people come in with blues and so forth even now, and not really a good grasp of PVE raiding. And these people by and large just aren't willing to put in the time commitment to do TOC/ony. So we have started using wow-heroes, you need to be at least yellow to get into the instance. This rewards people who gear up with heroics and other PUG raids, and it provides a bar for people to progress towards. It is a very hard thing for a social guild to have raid rules, but this is the only way to progress. Remember its not you setting these requirements, the content demands it.
And you will have a learning curve regardless of gear. You can wipe on any raid with any gear level of people if they dont know what they are doing. By and large I see serious issues w the lack of active membership. Keep your post bumped in the official forum, keep doing PUG raids/heroics, be as good of a citizen as you can, and you will eventually have a name. Our guild is probably one of the largest on the server (over 100 accounts and typically 10-20 people on at any one time); it took years to get to that point, and much of it was outside our (GL/coGL) control except letting in quality people and removing people who fit poorly.
Babasyzygy Dec 1st 2009 4:14AM
Meh. People keep saying, "pug it," but I know that in my alliance of guilds (we run several different 10-man raids) we'd generally rather not run than take anyone on a pug basis - we all just have way too many bad experiences.
Jon Nov 30th 2009 1:30PM
"Today I am facing unrest in the guild as folks are unhappy that there is "never anyone online"
Sounds like it's time to let the rest of the guild know that if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
EVERYONE needs to pitch in and do some recruiting. They can't expect the GM to do everything for them. And if they do, that is a sure sign that your guild will crumble.
Advertise in local channels, guild recruitment, your realm forums, and even in PUGs if you see someone who is a good player that is not in a guild. Ask some of your members to step up to the plate and to the same. If all they do is whine that no one's on to run anything it may be time to move on yourself.
Clevins Nov 30th 2009 1:59PM
/second. If people are not on at the same time because of odd and widely varying schedules, that's one thing, but if they're not on because they're not logging in they can't complain that there's no one on when they DO. Oh and you can't have a social guild without people...
Before you start raiding, check out your gear. If people need to improve, start by scheduling some heroic farming nights and get some badges and hence badge gear. This can be 2-3 heroics only - but doing that will get people in the groove of scheduled events.
one thing that worries me though is that the GM says he/she ' do not want to dedicate 3+ days a week at 3-4 hours..." - but that's what raiding is. Oh, you can do just 2 nights, but if you're not interested enough in raiding to spend 3 nights at it.... i venture to say that you'll have issues.
What you need to answer is this - "Why does this guild exist at all?" In my experience, guilds like yours only work if they're RL friends and family. Otherwise there needs to be some common in game thing that binds the guild members together.
Glaras Nov 30th 2009 2:14PM
I completely disagree that 3 nights a week is a minimum standard. Although our guild-sponsored runs have slumped (I posted on it further down in this thread), for a while we were clearing ToC10/Ony10 in *one* night. We used our second night to whittle away at Uld10. That was plenty.
Even when I was in the 25-man progression guild, we ran 2 nights/week, and did fine. We weren't #1 on the server, but then, only 1 guild is. :D
Astemus Nov 30th 2009 4:09PM
My guild runs 2 nights a week, 3 hours per raid, so 6 hours a week. We are working on clearing ToGC10 and are currently #4 on guildox for our realm on strict 10 man rankings.
And my server is an original server, with high population, and many 25 man guilds in the top 100.
Sciarc Dec 1st 2009 1:01AM
I would ask the same question as Clevins above: "Why does your guild exist at all?"
My gut feeling from your predicament is that it's time to pull the plug on the guild and move on. Free yourself from the hassles of recruiting and pleasing your guildies and just enjoy the game on your own schedule. Be the nice PuG that everyone else is looking for. Float around and meet new people that you wouldn't otherwise be meeting. Some may be jerks but some could become good new WoW friends.
Getafix Nov 30th 2009 2:01PM
If you go the pug route one thing that is worthwhile doing is making the acquaintance of the GMs of the better progressed guilds on the server. Often they have people with alts of various levels of gearing, who can come along if they aren't picked to play that night.
They get to gear up an alt and raid in a slightly more relaxed setting and you get a player that knows how to stay out of the fire and already knows the fights.