Encrypted Text: Subtlety gets its 15 minutes

With patch 3.3's release nearing, both Assassination and Combat rogues have buffs to look forward to. Mutilate will be a true force in PvE, returning us to our iconic weapons: a pair of poison-soaked daggers. The Deadly Poison change I talked about last week will benefit Combat as well, though not to the same degree as Mutilate. Icecrown and Season 8 are shaping up to be the most exciting things we'll see in WotLK.
While much of our focus has been on our immediate future, Ghostcrawler recently shared a huge piece of insight into what we can expect as Cataclysm approaches. Subtlety's status in Wrath (or lack thereof) has been the topic of heated discussion, as it's remained largely "the tree you put 21 points into to PvP". Subtlety hasn't seen much use since the Naxxramas days when Honor Among Thieves was bugged and wicked overpowered. Luckily, Blizzard has a plan for the tree and for the class. Read on for the complete story.
Utility vs DPS:
As Ghostcrawler mentioned back in the Rogue Q&A, Subtlety is a utility tree. Many of the talents are interesting buffs to our crowd control, energy management, stealth, or entirely new functions for a rogue. With talents like Honor Among Thieves (which GC touched on specifically) and the candidate for 'best rogue talent ever', Relentless Strikes, Sub has the capability of completely changing how a rogue thinks about the basic elements of the class.
Combo Points are now gained in a steady stream, leaving you to make the interesting choice of which finishers to execute. Energy regeneration completely reverses, and it becomes a race to burn your energy as fast as possible instead of the current paradigm of pooling until it's absolutely necessary. Between Enveloping Shadows and Cheat Death, our survivability reaches an unparalleled level. A rogue's ability to survive outside of CDs is something else GC touched on. No rogue picks up a non-DPS talent if they can help it, and so, until that issue is addressed, we will continue to be "glass cannons". If you look at the Sub tree in detail, each tier provides at least one new utility talent for consideration. The problem is that all of this utility comes at a precious cost: DPS talents.
When using a Combat spec, there is typically one 'filler' point, and it usually gets thrown into Endurance for its Sprint cooldown reduction. Every other talent is selected purely from a 'maximum DPS' perspective. Mutilate isn't much better off, with a possible two points tossed into Fleet Footed or another Tier 5 talent. Sub Rogues really get to pick their talents in each tier, because often there's no "obvious DPS talent". This flexibility is what currently places Subtlety dead last in pretty much every environment.
If Subtlety were to suddenly start doing the same DPS as a Combat or Mutilate build, players would immediately flock to it. Tons of utility and dramatic play style changes without sacrificing any raid performance is enough to draw even the most skeptical to the spec. That's the reason you don't see a 'Hunger for Shadows' at the bottom of the Subtlety tree, adding 30% damage to all attacks as long as you remember to keep up the debuff. In the current design paradigm, utility and DPS are mutually exclusive. If Blizzard baked in so much DPS passively to the class that talents were irrelevant, it would cause the current DPS talents to make us dramatically overpowered. We're pretty much stuck without a complete rebuild.
Why Cataclysm could be the silver bullet:
In the migration from vanilla WoW to TBC, we saw a 30% spike in Stamina values across the board, which really redefined our preconceived ideas about how much life a player should have. In the move from TBC to WotLK, we saw entirely new stats explored, and a more diverse and powerful loot table than every before. Now that Cataclysm is on the horizon, we're going back to the basics. The massive overhaul of gear, abilities, and talent trees will be the largest undertaking Blizzard has ever attempted to pull off in WoW.
They've been building on a foundation of abilities, talents, and stats that was constructed over 5 years ago, before most of the staff had ever cut their teeth on an MMO, let alone one of WoW's size. With Cataclysm, they get the chance to rewrite all of that. I believe that the simplification of gear, the redesign of the talent trees, and the Mastery stat are going to go a long way in terms of making every spec viable in nearly every realm.
The two changes that will save Subtlety are the ideas of 'Sub Mastery' and the Mastery stat. It would allow a rogue to drop points into those talents that were previous devoid of any DPS gains and still do more damage, by adding a 'damage per point invested' effect into the tree. For example, with every point in the Subtlety tree, we could gain 1% extra damage against enemies. After 20 points invested, we start regenerating energy faster. Once we've dumped 40 points into the tree, we could see a tweak to Honor Among Thieves to give us one combo point every 5 seconds for free.
With these types of fine-tuning knobs available, it will allow Blizzard to make our specs less dependent on the 'magic talents' like Prey on the Weak and Hunger for Blood and more focused on fun talents like Cheat Death, Improved Sprint, and Vigor. Wouldn't it be so much more interesting to play a game where you choose which spec's playstyle you prefer, and then Blizzard is the one that worries about making sure that you're not holding your group back by doing so? Instead of being restricted to one single class, we would have 3 different modes of operation, each as powerful as the other two.
Conclusion:
Of course, all of these changes (and Cataclysm itself) are still marked with the infamous 'Soon' stamp, and there's really no way of knowing how long it will take for the developers to get rogues to the place where your spec doesn't matter as much as your skill. Until then, Mutilate and Combat will remain the kings of our castle, while Sub rogues wait in the shadows for their time to shine. Or their time to be invisible, since glowing would probably be something a stealthy rogue would want to avoid.
Filed under: Rogue, Classes, (Rogue) Encrypted Text






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
curtisrutland Dec 2nd 2009 8:26PM
I'm kinda digging the proposed mastery changes. My favorite talent as a DK that I can't use is [On A Pale Horse]. Perma-crusader aura. And I used it all the way through leveling, but you just can't find room for two talent points when they are so much better spent on damage.
It'll be nice to actually be able to take the perks of our class without being penalized for it.
Evelinda Dec 3rd 2009 10:10AM
not to mention basically having the best name of a talent ever :P
Byron Dec 3rd 2009 4:16PM
Hey, get out of my head, I was going to say the same thing about OaPH. Such a useful talent, but so painful to allocate points to if you're raiding. Hope Chase is right about this.
Freedom Dec 2nd 2009 8:29PM
Meh, gonna take a significant overhaul of the sub tree combined with Sub Mastery to convince rogues to use it for PvE.
Chase Christian Dec 2nd 2009 8:33PM
Which is exactly what we'll see in Cataclysm. :)
RAEGLATEM Dec 2nd 2009 8:34PM
Wow, i kinda like these changes, i'll finally be able to have those utility talents again!
Banzai Dec 2nd 2009 8:36PM
Only thing I find Sub useful is in BGs, just because of the insane burst Ambushes and Shadowstep, the single most fun ability the class has.
I wonder how Blizz will pull of adding utility to Assassination and Combat and will they be more different from what the current talents there are? I wouldn't be surprised to see talent trees in general having less branches, focusing on 1 or 2 choices on every tier. Maybe having more of that "get this in order to get this"-mechanic to it.
Assassination has a lot of talents that add crit or +damage to some ability or to all of a type. Not too much utilities there, besides the few energy regen or lower cost talents.
Combat has a bucketload of utilities, but the current desing doesn't allow too much choice because we need the dps.
Sub, well... fun utilities but not many ways of actually making them count, because you'll be so lacking in damage.
I for one am looking forward to Cataclysm, just to see what they will come up with.
Eisengel Dec 3rd 2009 8:03AM
It is interesting to see how much Rogues have changed. There were some spots in BC, but really in vanilla it could be possible that you would take a Rogue for their utility. During the end of BC I was helping a friend farm Righteous Orbs in Scholomance on my Rogue for his Pally. We also brought along a Mage. I was very surprised at just how useful my Rogue was even though we all out leveled the place quite a bit. I was dusting off icons I hadn't used in a while. Being able to sap effectively and use the suite of interrupts I had (as well as being the only melee DPS that could handle the magic-immune shades) was very powerful. While adding DPS to utility sounds fun, it would be interesting if Blizz could add some kind of useful utility to the DPS trees. This is a double-edged sword, because for a talent or ability to be really useful, something important has to depend on it.. and if something important depends on it, you can't do that important thing if you don't have that class/spec.
i.e. Shadow Priests and VT in BC... or Shadow Priests and MC for Razuvious (before the orbs were added)... defined the use and role of the class. On the other side of the coin, Rogues and Disarm Trap. Disarm Trap is an iconic Rogue-type skill, but in WoW it is used for one Rogue class quest, and beyond that it has no utility, other than to let Hunters know where you are, so it is never used. Lockpicking is also slowly becoming less and less useful even though it is a definitive Rogue-type skill.
Shilkanni Dec 3rd 2009 11:38AM
Eisengel:
Wtf - I didn't even know Rogues had Disarm Trap in Wow.
scherbaddie Dec 7th 2009 11:04PM
Disarm trap was used in blackwing lair. I remember screaming I AM USEFUL into vent when we got up to that part, I was so excited.
Coldbear Dec 2nd 2009 8:38PM
Good article. Otoh one spec will always be the min/maxed damage spec, and the best you can hope for is really a bit of almost-parity here and there, since for the good of us all you really have to agree that balancing between classes has to come first, between class-specs second - i.e., between warrior tanks/DK tanks/pally tanks/druid tanks & between rogues/cat druids - and between the individual specs within a specific class a far distant third.
Doing the first two and keeping this at least borderline sane in both raiding, solo play and arena/BG pvp is a pretty tall order, I'm sure you'd agree.
That said - damn, I hope they succeed. I'd love to see a huge difference in specs and playstyles among the rogues I raid and PVP with. Been a long time since I've seen a bunch of Shadow Step'ing in raids...
nordveien Dec 3rd 2009 5:50AM
You can see Shadowstepping in raids every time in ToC >
Zach Dec 2nd 2009 8:38PM
The overhaul of talents is definitely what I am most looking forward to in Cataclysm. It's not that I don't like talents in their current form, but they do get stale after awhile when you only have 1 or 2 "free" points to place where you want. I've never been a huge min/maxer via talents, but Combat really doesn't give any other options besides the cookie-cutter spec. Any other way just doesn't make sense, which is a shame.
I can't wait until someone's inevitable question of "What's the best spec?" is met by a universal "Well, that depends..."
MusedMoose Dec 2nd 2009 8:46PM
"Wouldn't it be so much more interesting to play a game where you choose which spec's playstyle you prefer, and then Blizzard is the one that worries about making sure that you're not holding your group back by doing so?"
This, a thousand times this. The one thing I truly don't like about talents and all that comes with them is the idea of the One True Spec. Reading about the new philosophy behind talents in Cataclysm has had me excited from day one. Can't wait.
Of course, my current rogue absolutely loves using Mutilate, but giving Subtlety a good look would be all kinds of fun too.
Zeldaguard Dec 2nd 2009 9:28PM
Very well written! I loved the pun at the end :)
On my rogue, I go a bit against the grain. Subtlety is the most rouge-y tree, so that's the one I play because it's fun :)
Fa110u7 Dec 8th 2009 5:26PM
I totally agree, I have always loved subtlety it is most defiantly the most enjoyable play style for me as a rogue. Anyone remember Kenion if you haven't seen his movies go check em out.
Nazgûl Dec 2nd 2009 9:42PM
"After 20 points invested, we start regenerating energy faster. Once we've dumped 40 points into the tree, we could see a tweak to Honor Among Thieves to give us one combo point every 5 seconds for free."
I may be wrong, but I am fairly certain things like this will remain in the Talents themselves, and Mastery will be pure stat increases, such as +2% damage or +10% Agility and such.
Darky Dec 3rd 2009 1:46AM
it can be anything that blizzard wants it to be tbh it can increase the damage of certain aspects or increase regeneration(mp5) as well which is what i assume theyll be doing for healers, so mastery is just an all round boost that you get that doesnt involve wasting talents.. though the crit chance talents are still going to be around i assume
Nazgûl Dec 3rd 2009 3:46PM
"though the crit chance talents are still going to be around i assume"
No, they specifically said things like this are not going to be around anymore. In fact, I was only saying "I may be wrong" to be polite. They stated very clearly and explicitly that Mastery is going to give straight up damage/stat modifiers, not utility such as the stated one combo point per 5 seconds.
Broken_toes Dec 3rd 2009 12:19AM
These changes can't come soon enough, I'm just fed up with the, admittedly more self assigned, pressure to drop combat and go muti so I can maximise my DPS. It's not so bad if there are groups of mobs, taking down 10 mobs solo is just kind of cool-but with a boss fight and no adds... I'm sick o that muti rogue just being slightly out of reach.
I just want to have a spec that ain't bloody cookie cutter ass!