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12-02-2009 @ 1:20PM
I don't want to give away any spoilers from the Arthas novel but... the final scenes call into question some of the points from the last paragraph.
12-02-2009 @ 1:36PM
Doesn't the book also say his humanity is completely gone?If his 'inner child' can show up again, someone as powerful as Ner'zhul certainly could.
12-02-2009 @ 1:38PM
yea well you and I both know about that but better not to spoil such an awesome book :)
12-02-2009 @ 1:50PM
The final scenes from the book are addressed in the final paragraph when I say "Ner'zhul is dead, yes, devoured by the entity that calls itself king of the liches." I know what the book says, but the in-game lore contradicts it. The Lich King says "*I* was once a shaman." Not "Ner'zhul was once a shaman." The current Lich King may consider itself to have devoured Ner'zhul and torn Arthas' humanity out, but he still acts like he remembers himself being Ner'zhul, not that he remembers everything Ner'zhul did before he destroyed him. There's wiggle room here.
12-02-2009 @ 2:15PM
Responding to FiernaAnd some of the spoilers from patch 3.3 (which I won’t outline here for obvious reasons) call into question the points of the novel you allude to.Which trumps which the game or the book? The point in question from the novel, and the spoilers from the patch go 180 degree directions and simply can’t in any way shape or form be reconciled.
12-02-2009 @ 2:54PM
I don't know about the 3.3 spoilers as I haven't witnessed too many of them, but a Blue once said on the forums that the Lich King is simultaneously both Arthas and Ner'zhul, and yet neither of them. At the end of the Arthas novel, the way I took it was that when the Lich King killed the child Arthas, Arthas himself was no more at that point, and Ner'zhul then thought that he was in full control and the only one there, only to also die, again, making the Lich King equal parts neither of them.So there's still just as much of Ner'zhul in the Lich King as there is of Arthas. It just gets less attention because there are very few people alive these days who are even aware of Ner'zhul, let alone that interacted with him prior to becoming the Lich King. Arthas on the other hand has a lot of people with a personal vendetta against him and was the face of the scourge even before becoming the Lich King due to Ner'zhul being locked in a block of ice.
12-02-2009 @ 4:20PM
The thing with books or comics or even anything else used as a media to explore possible story-lines from WoW in general is that they're not always going to see eye to eye on things. Meaning that even though they usually get the bulk of the ideas and the "get go" (permission) from the Blizzard company, things don't always stay the same giving people a lot of different views to interpret the same thing. Best thing to do is take the info with a grain of salt. Which is why the game itself can and will often contradict that stuff told in those media. Why? Cuz sometimes better stuff and/or ideas come along later or the person ultilizing the other media has a different vision. Hell, even Blizzard retcons stuff so that things change - Draenei history anyone?Personally, it's like Superman and Batman... you get all the stories - through different medias and crap - but even though some stuff may contradict at some point, you still enjoy the idea that is Superman and Batman.
12-02-2009 @ 5:15PM
Also the Death Knights of Acherus apparently know exactly what the lich king is... since darion (in the guise of the messenger dude whilst phasing through the breach in icecrown) states something like "The Lich King is 2 of the most ruthless entities to exist combined" or something like that.
12-02-2009 @ 10:39PM
There is no contradiction whatsoever between the in-game lore and the novel. The novel shows the will of what was once Arthas consuming what remains of Ner'zhul and banishing Arthas's humanity. In this event, what we see is not Arthas the man taking on the incidental title of Lich King, with everything concerning Ner'zhul totally gone, but the birth of a totally new entity, the "Lich King." Now, there is truly no "Arthas" (if by that we mean the human prince who murdered his father and merged with Ner'zhul) and no Ner'zhul (if by that we mean the Orcish shaman who was deceived by Kil'Jaeden and opened the portals that destroyed Outland); both the humanity of Arthas and the personality and will of Ner'zhul are gone, consumed by the will of Arthas to create a new, singular entity: the Lich King. What remains now are Arthas's will and memories, with Ner'zhul's memories, experience, and power subsumed into it, all combined together to form an utterly soulless creature of evil. So the Lich King can say (SPOILER) "I once sought a powerful blade," (as he does in some of the Shadowmourne whispers), and he can also say "I was once a shaman." The being that is the Lich King was once both these things, the Orc Shaman and the Lordaeron Prince; but now he is neither. Now, he is only the Lich KIng.The scene from Rise of the Lich King only illustrates this. In the novel, we see the conflict of three wills within the mind of the newly-merged Lich King: the human Arthas, the Orc Ner'zhul, and the shattered will of Arthas, sans humanity. In the end of the book, this conflict is resolved, with one will destroyed (Arthas's humanity, and indeed, the true Arthas, the human prince of Lordaeron), and one consumed and subsumed into the other. The will of "Arthas" is indeed triumphant in this battle, but, having consumed the will, memories, and experience of Ner'zhul, and banished everything that remained within him of the human Arthas Menethil, this being is no longer in any meaningful sense Arthas: it is now the Lich King, a new, singular being, distinct from both Arthas and Ner'zhul, and containing within it the memories and experience of both. To the extent that the will which in the end became this being was that of Arthas and not Ner'zhul, Arthas receives top billing in its creation. But its not Arthas anymore, folks. It's the Lich King, and it's got the memories and experience of both men. No contradiction there.This, I think, is what Blizzard is going for. It's somewhat complicated, but even so, I think it shines through fairly well in the game (and also the book, properly understood).Thank you for your time.
12-03-2009 @ 8:12AM
The final dialogue from WC3:TFT, "Now, we are one!"That 'we' must be Ner'zhul and Arthas, speaking as a single entity."Lich King is simultaneously both Arthas and Ner'zhul, and yet neither of them."Thumbs up to Gizen and Nathan's post :D
2-18-2010 @ 12:23AM
The lustrous sheen of pale, grey nothing; alone. Above the calm of present boughs, I looked upon the lifeless root. It was here I found my father; true. Stinking flesh and bellowed breathe, he gave to me his leather vest. I travelled home to wait on him, my brother James is wearing thin. by ChaffI know about this story. I sat by the lake to contemplate the thought of his returnI'm sure there is somebody in Lordaeron who knows the truth of all this. The orcs had come for wood.
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