The Care and Feeding of Warriors: Simplicity Itself

What I really dislike is when someone tells me something which could not possibly be true and expects me to believe it.
Let me back up and provide some context. As those who read my twitter know (@MatthewWRossi for those of you just dying to keep up with my once every few days tweets) I had resolved to run the new random dungeon on my underplayed Horde alts, who needed the gear more than my Alliance toons anyway. And so I brushed my tauren fury/arms warrior off (thick layer of dust and all) and ran four random dungeons back to back to back to back in the small hours of the morning, gathering enough Emblems of Triumph to buy him a new pair of shoulders from scratch and everything. Thrilled with the success of the experiment, I decided to try a few Alliance side as well.
Sometimes, we should leave well enough alone. It's okay sometimes to stop when something has gone really well, to say "wow, this was really fun and fast and painless" and not to push our luck. Because what came after wasn't just a PuG. It wasn't just a bad PuG. It was the kind of bad PuG where people tell you bald-faced and impossible lies and make you ashamed to be playing the same game as they are.
Having already tanked Halls of Reflection once already on heroic (and even on the PTR) I knew that it wasn't super easy as a warrior tank, but with some restraint and a proper kill order (healers/casters/hunters/melee) it was quite doable. So I informed my group, we started the long loredump, and then the encounter started. We collapsed to the doorway to move the mobs to us, things were going okay until the third wave started. While I was gathering up the mobs (including taunting the mage off of the healer) a rogue mob ran over and ripped one of the DPS in half. Annoying, yes, but it happens from time to time, Thunder Clap threat won't stop a mob who's getting direct damaged out of kill order. However, the irritating part is when the DPS insisted "I didn't even touch it."
We're in a gauntlet where waves of adds spawn and rush the party.
The healer is constantly healing me and will be casting healing spells and generating healing threat as these mobs become active and rush the party. This means that until I get the mobs gathered up, the top threat target is going to be the healer. He starts each wave with healing aggro on every single mob as they run to us, because he's healing me the whole time. This is simplicity itself. The mobs spawn in random parts of the room, so I can't mark them immediately, which is why we have a kill order going into the waves already worked out.
I am not building immediate aggro on melee mobs. I should not have to. You're not supposed to be hitting them. And it is impossible for you to be putting out more threat than my AoE and the healer's constant healing without doing anything. It's not just a lie, it's a stupid lie. Not only can I go look in the combat log and see you damaging the mob, but I have a functioning forebrain that does things like say "But if he wasn't hitting the mob why would it run 20 yards to yank his head off of his neck when the healer is constantly casting healing spells five feet away from it and is a much juicier and aggro generating target?"
What I'm saying is twofold. First off, for new warriors looking to get into these random PuG's and tank, please be aware that you will run into these people. They will stick sixteen kinds of DoT on a mob and then complain when you don't see it turn to yank their entrails out because you're trying to hold aggro on four others. They think that Shockwave and TC have no cooldowns and generate infinite threat. They're under the misapprehension that you have a groud effect DoT that will cause mobs to run to you instead of people putting damage on multiple mobs before you've even looked at one. They'll cast Typhoon or Thunderstorm just as the mobs get to you and wonder why you're upset with them. They use Bladestorm as an opener.
There is really nothing you can do about these people. There's no way to predict a PuG will have one or more of them in it, the ones who think Shadow Word: Pain doesn't cause threat because they're in Shadowform, or who constantly try and rush the pulls and disdain any and all use of kill order because they have no idea what it's like to tank and couldn't maintain aggro as a tank on multiple mobs to save their lives.

Generally, treat the tank like you would like to be treated were you the tank. You'd think this wouldn't need to be said, but I stand here to contradict you. For a new warrior looking to get caught up for raids, the new dungeon finder is wonderful. In the day of its existence I've had several good PuG's with it. I very much enjoyed the Luck of the Draw buff and when the groups were good it was an absolute joy as a DPS warrior to just sign up as DPS and not have to justify it or deal with people who assume warriors can only tank. And as a tank it got me through the various Icecrown five mans for the attunements. I'm simply pointing out to people new to PuGs, new to tanking or DPSing on a warrior at 80, or even new to grouping period that the new dungeon finder does not magically erase the lamentable human tendency to, well, be human.
Please, go forth and use the new dungeon finder, especially you tanking warriors. You're one half of the lifeblood of this grand experiment. But go in knowing what you might get. It is random, after all.
Filed under: Warrior, Patches, Analysis / Opinion, Odds and ends, News items, Instances, Bosses, (Warrior) The Care and Feeding of Warriors, Wrath of the Lich King






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 8)
Gamer am I Dec 10th 2009 1:11PM
"...where people tell you bald-faced and impossible lies..."
Did you mean bold-faced?
(cutaia) Dec 10th 2009 1:13PM
Nah...he's talking about lies told by little kids who can't grow beards. :D
Mutak Dec 10th 2009 1:14PM
No, bald-faced is correct.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_the_correct_term_%27bold_face_lie%27_or_%27bald_faced_lie%27_or_another_variation
Gamer am I Dec 10th 2009 1:18PM
I stand corrected; please ignore me.
balfizan Dec 10th 2009 1:27PM
No he means bald-faced. Bald-faced is a term referring to the brashness or unconcealed nature of something.
http://www.answers.com/topic/bald-faced
balfizan Dec 10th 2009 1:27PM
Damnation someone beat me to it. Didn't mean to pile on.
DeathPaladin Dec 10th 2009 2:13PM
Congrats for being willing to admit that you were wrong on the internet, Gamer.
Not many possess such a quality.
Vyle Dec 10th 2009 2:43PM
I would like to put you on ignore, but my list is already full :(
LilBanshee Dec 10th 2009 2:57PM
Such civility all around... citing sources for claims even... I must have wandered into the Bizarro Internet!
Artificial Dec 10th 2009 10:24PM
/me prefers the naked truth to bald-faced lies. ;)
We have an obsession with undressing expressions in this language.
Crimson Dec 11th 2009 2:11AM
Bald-faced indeed
the new LFG is a blessing and a curse at the same time
I was pugging 71-74 range dungeons on my druid and we
got a hunter in our group who would unload on a mob that the tank only
thunderclaped once pull aggro NOT use Feign Death or Deterence and then complain
that:
1) He died
2) His tanking worm with growl ON died
3) He didn't get any heals
4) No loot for him dropped off the first boss
>_< Gotta love 5 year olds
thevitruvianman Dec 11th 2009 8:37AM
@LilBanshee
Civility indeed! I almost expected to see a fully referenced list of citations using the Harvard referencing system at the bottom of some of those comments.
How ironic to see such a civil set of comments on an article about how stupid PuG's can be.....
AHealer Dec 10th 2009 1:14PM
Pretty sure the rogues in that encounter have a threat wipe... I've seen things like that happen a few times now with people I trust.
Josh Warner Dec 10th 2009 2:12PM
I can confirm this. The mercenaries shadowstep and may well destroy a random player.
The other thing is, Matt, I've done HoR on Heroic twice. Once as a spriest (btw: shackle is amazing in all 3 instances, bring a spriest if you know a good one!) and once on my prot warr.
Whilst on my warr, I noticed something strange. Most my party was LoSing on one side of the alcolve, but for a few waves one or two of our number was on the opposite side due to unfortunate flamestrikes. What happened then? The DPS - I'm talking about melee, out of LoS, definitely not producing any threat - on the opposite side from the healer would consistently get aggro'd on.
Matt I really appreciate your columns. But instead of going on a 2 page long rant effectively calling a PuG a liar, run the instance again and try this. These mobs' threat tables do not behave normally. I believe the pug told you the truth, and you refused to believe it.
kabshiel Dec 10th 2009 2:17PM
Some DPS classes also can build up threat on a mob without touching it. I know on my warlock, untanked mobs would always make a beeline for me because of the healing aggro caused by Fel Armor, Siphon Life, and Fel Synergy.
LilBanshee Dec 10th 2009 3:06PM
The other day I pulled whelp ago right after Onyxia flew away because I popped evocation before the tank had them all rounded up - it didn't occur to me at the time that evocation would pull global threat.
Did you actually confirm the dps in question damaged the mob that killed him? You phrased that as something you could have done, not necessarily something you did. You didn't specify what kind of DPS this was, but I'm sure a lot of them have global-threat abilities that one wouldn't expect to pull threat from using.
JA Dec 10th 2009 3:08PM
This is true. I have run HoR on heroic well over 20 times (basically just stop playing my live toons when the PTR was up) as Frost DK (tank) and Prot War. And you have the kill the Rogue first because they randomly jumps around and attack other players - not to mention they can stun and incapacitate you.
The kill order should go rogue->priest (fear is also annoying)->mage->warrior->hunter.
This instance is very tough and annoying for warrior to tank. Tanking on DK is numerous times easier - just stay in the hallway and drop D&D, Death Grip the mage to you, while taunting the hunter in the distant, then it's all up the the healer to keep you alive.
Priest is a godsend in this and other Icecrown instances, especially for warrior tank. Shackle the hunter or mage (I prefer that the hunter be shackled) and everything is a cakewalk.
JR Dec 10th 2009 3:41PM
I was DPSing HOR on my warrior alt and had the same problem. Mobs would come to me even though I wasn't attacking them, nor doing any AoE nor anything. Just standing there. It was probably a positioning issue, my group (including myself of course) probably wasn't positioned adequately. The point is, it is possible for DPS to get aggro on a mob withouth attacking it.
Also this rant is not only wrong, but it also has nothing to do with warriors. It feels to me like this column is becoming the author's personal LiveJournal. Less personal rants and more warrior information please.
Bikhai Dec 10th 2009 3:59PM
Yeah, I had some srs bsns aggro problems in HoR yesterday. I never could confirm it, but I figured there was some sort of aggro wipe, because people kept getting randomly instagibbed right after I TC'd and Shockwaved.
Incidentally, I'm not running HoR again till they tone some of the damage down. A single trash mob on a 5-pull should not be bombing 10k melee swings on a tank (me) geared through TOC25 while the healer is feared and the rogue has me stunned so I can't avoid any hits while the mage drops a flamestrike underneath the group while the hunter is running out of my attack range so I can't get threat on him shortly after I get a debuff that increases my magical damage taken by 50%. Oh yeah, I forgot how impossible it is to move without every mob you're tanking running to attack you from behind.
jrizutko Dec 10th 2009 4:12PM
"Please, go forth and use the new dungeon finder, especially you tanking warriors. You're one half of the lifeblood of this grand experiment. But go in knowing what you might get. It is random, after all."
Yup, you might get a tank like Matt Rossi that doesn't understand that the rogues threatwipe and shadowstep. He'll be quick to toss blame without thinking through the encounter for himself, and you might get kicked from the group because the RNG picked you for a random mob ability. Luckily tanks like that aren't terribly common. Most folks are actually quite understanding and knowledgeable.