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12-10-2009 @ 6:04PM
What level raid of ICC will the armor set upgrade tokens drop from? Are we stuck with the initial ilvl 251 gear if we're running normal 10-man?
12-10-2009 @ 6:27PM
Yes. But I would assume heroic 10 man will drop 264 tokens.And it has been confirmed that Deathbringer Saurfang (final boss in wing 1) drops the 264 token. I would assume the other wings also drop tokens off the final boss, similar to Naxxramas (although I hate to compare the two instances).
12-10-2009 @ 6:30PM
Of course you are stuck with 251 in 10 man. Blizzard has very little love for 10man raids, no orbs, no legendaries, and twirl gear that is replaced by emblem gear from heroics if you can live with the loss of a set bonus.
12-10-2009 @ 7:10PM
It's not that Blizz doesn't love 10man, it's about increased reward for increased difficulty. For many people there wouldn't be much reason to run 25mans if you could get the same loot from 10man
12-10-2009 @ 10:49PM
The only increased difficulty with 25mans is the effort to organize 25 people to work together. 10-mans make you suffer more responsibility -- if one person screws up, much more likely to fail then if 1 person screws up in a 25man.
12-11-2009 @ 1:17AM
Avatar of Blue and johnnytorrance.. it would be appreciated if you didn't clog up the comments with completely incorrect nonsense about the relative difficulty of activities that you have clearly never participated in. Try raiding (both 10-man and 25-man of course) before posting about which is tuned to be more difficult.
12-11-2009 @ 1:40AM
Keep in mind that, "10 man is harder than 25 man," held true for most of WotLK. After having run 10 man ICC on Tuesday and then 25 man ICC tonight (Thursday,) I'm going to go ahead and say that it is not entirely accurate for the new raid instance.10 man being harder, but getting lesser gear, was a huge complaint for many players, and it felt tonight like they took those complaints to heart and did something about it.Trash was much easier for us tonight, but the bosses were not. The number of people present was increased, but so were the challenges - not just boss HP and swing damage, but entire encounters. At least half of the people present for 25 man had already experienced a 10 or 25 man version of the instance already, so it's not like we were failing purely due to lack of experience (though that was certainly the case for some of us).10 was a pleasantly new experience, but disappointingly easy for our make up that night to conquer. 25 was a less new experience, aside from the face planting. That was new. And while it's never fun to spend money on repairs, finding encounters that ARE a challenge is definitely satisfying. Though if we don't ramp it up next raid night, I might start throwing fits.
12-11-2009 @ 1:51AM
@ CarsonGuess why your post is grey?Embraced the fail have you?10 man has always been more difficult and less rewarding then 25 manas stated above because you have more people 1 death doesn't mean muchand in 10 man you lose one person that is very hard on the group and if it's a healerit's usually a wipe.So 10 mans are more often performed with people from the same guild, so all the loot badges and gold goes to the guild.25 mans happen in large guilds but more often are pugged because finding 25 people in one guild at one time to devote 3 or more hours to something is rather difficult.That is the only hard part about 25 mans.Also 25 mans are usually ran by people who already did 10 man know the encounters and have descent gear
12-11-2009 @ 2:11AM
"Keep in mind that, "10 man is harder than 25 man," held true for most of WotLK. "Absolutely nonsense.It wasn't true for Naxx.It wasn't true for Malygos.It wasn't true for Vault of Archavon, nor Emalon or Koralon.It wasn't true for Ulduar.It wasn't true for Onyxia.It wasn't true for the Coliseum.It wasn't even true for Sartharion.. UNLESS you were doing it with drakes up. THAT was the one place where 10-man was harder.. and Blizzard publically acknowledged that it was a mistake, that they tuned that fight incorrectly for 10-man.But as has always been the case on wow.com .. people who have never raided neither 10-man nor 25-man speculate wildly, and figure that 10-man must be harder because "one death means so much more". Completely ignorant of the fact that all the tanking and healing and dps checks are tuned to be vastly milder in 10-man.Anyway, enough of this nonsense, I'm about to go and run some of the hardest content in the game - 5-man instances! They're WAY harder than 10-man raids, because if someone dies, it means TWICE AS MUCH to the group!
12-11-2009 @ 2:41AM
@ CrimsonGuess why your post is grey?Embraced the fail have you?I've done 10 and 25 man of every Wrath raid in the game.10 man is always MASSIVELY easier than 25
12-11-2009 @ 5:05AM
Quote: "I've done 10 and 25 man of every Wrath raid in the game.10 man is always MASSIVELY easier than 25"---These arguments are stupid when they come from people who "have done both raids". You might think that "I know what im saying" when you say that you have done both..but its not valid point, its bad point. Specially if your role is dps.I mean of course 10mans are "massively" easy WHEN YOU OUTGEAR IT by WHOLE TIER.Lets see.As we know Naxx 10/25 = 200 ilvl/213ilvl gearUlduar desing wise? Uld10 is desinged for 200 ilvl geared people. Uld 25 is desinged for 213 ilvl people. If you went to Uld10 with maly and OS3D 226+213 gear stop freaking whining "ezmode" and you know why.Toc raid same thing. 10man is for 10man progress not for people who outgear the entrylevel reguirement with their 226+239 gear.You guys need to realise they are 2 totally different progress levels. Has blizzard ever said 10mans are "lol they are just for loot and to learn the fights". No, they even made achievements like "herald of the titans" and "dedicatly insane" that encourages to use propriete ilvl gear for encounters. It might be learning/loot place for 25man guilds that use like algalon10 as learning curve to 25. But still theres strict 10man guilds and they can spend same amount of time as any 25man guild on ICC now.I tanked ICC10 with 10m Toc gear and it was reasonably scaled. MT had 25man gear and he didnt barely have to do anything while I might've needed some cooldowns there and there.If you want challenge, do 25man with toc10 and 10 ulduar hard gear as non-dps. Trust me, tanking with that was cooldown chains.
12-11-2009 @ 9:52AM
You can't talk about it being unfair to compare the raids if you've done both and then say how hard it is to tank a 25 man in 10 man gear >_>
12-11-2009 @ 10:34AM
@Carson...Have you ever done -anything- in 10-man, honestly?The only way someone that has done both would think 10-man is easier is if they went back to 10-man after clearing and looting up fully in 25-man, at which point they're way overgeared and already know the fights of 10-man. Try running 10-man first and in the previous raid's 10-man gear and tell us what you think then.
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