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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsFirst impressions: Icecrown Citadel raid and 5-mans
by Allison Robert 
Dec 11th 2009 at 1:00PM
- Forge of Souls is the easiest of the new 5-mans. The most common gripe is that group members don't pay attention to their raid warnings and move in as necessary for Bronjahm, or stop DPS on Devourer of Souls if they get Mirrored Soul.
- Pit of Saron is pretty cool, though quite sad at the end (at least if you're Horde). The trash pulls full of casters are on the tough side if people aren't good about interrupting or moving out of Hellfire on heroic. Also, don't bank on getting Don't Look Up in a pug.
- Halls of Reflection is widely cited for the intense difficulty of the first two bosses (or, more accurately, the trash waves preceding them). The heroic version is not recommended for undergeared groups, and a successful run demands a decently high level of play from all members of the group. The end is really cool.
- Lord Marrowgar is considered a utility fight; it's a gear check for the tanks and a basic competence check for everyone else. This is possibly the result of its being one of the weekly raid quests. Alex Ziebart characterizes Marrowgar as "the first half of Black Temple in review."
- Lady Deathwhisper is the first real challenge for a competent raid and tests your ability to get Deathwhisper's shield to 0% while controlling adds and mind-controlled (on 25-man) players. The encounter punishes players swiftly for a lack of raid awareness, but it's not too steep a learning curve, and once you've gotten her to phase 2, you've pretty much won. Melee DPS are unhappy about yet another set of mobs in the game with nasty cleaves who have to be jockeyed into position.
- The Gunship battle: Very positive reactions in general. On a personal note, I think this is one of Blizzard's best, most unique, and most interesting fights since Sunwell. I want this fight to get married and have kids.
- Deathbringer Saurfang: Phase 4 Illidan meets the spawn of Saurfang. Players everywhere wonder: why can't Saurfang Jr. cleave?
Filed under: Patches, Analysis / Opinion, Instances, Raiding, Bosses
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 6)
EZ Dec 11th 2009 2:21PM
>The most common gripe is that group members don't pay attention to their raid warnings >and move in as necessary for Bronjahm, or stop DPS on Devourer of Souls if they get >Mirrored Soul.
This is actually a gripe...wtf?? This is what is wrong with wow, people gripe that they have to play the game. See invaders post for evidence. It takes 2 minutes to look up a boss on wowhead before going for the first time. Stop expecting everyone else to hold your hand.
In b4 "elitist prick". This isn't elitism, it's average game mechanics. I'm not talking about reading forums for hours to learn the correct rotation, gems, enchants, spec. Just take a couple minutes and read the abilities that a boss has and learn to avoid them. This "gripe" makes me sad...and slightly raged.
I hate to pick on you invader, and I'm sure you are a decent player, but sometimes things like this make me wish blizzard would put in a "tour-guide" mode for people who want to see the instance "just for lore reasons" (yeah right). It would be better for the people who want to see the dungeon, and it lets people who actually enjoy avoiding boss abilities play the game. The tour guide mode could even add some NPC's with the player and they could all have god mode activated with an infinite mana cheat.
Kanap Dec 11th 2009 3:47PM
Its also not hard to see the middle of your screen for a DBM warning.
Sorcefire Dec 11th 2009 4:36PM
I voted up InvaderDem specifically because of his mention of people not bothering to check if people have done the fights or even know them. I think it's pretty crappy of people to expect everyone to be a walking dorklepedia of WoW boss strategies and even more craptacular for random PUG players to expect to faceroll this content.
It's mostly DPS with this attitude and, given their rather easy tasks in the new 5-mans, I can see how they expect everyone else to carry the weight. Tanking isn't easy and healing a challenging 5-man is not fun for anyone when DPS run around aggroing everything or standing in the fire like a tard. Let's not even mention the even more retarded DPS who refuse to burn down casters.
One last comment on this...DBM, BE2, etc. are great, but when you're healer is busy keeping 4 other people alive because they refuse to pay attention then those addons don't mean diddly. That goes double for you, Mr. Warlock-who-lifetaps-to 10% health-on every boss fight. I don't have time to heal your stupid butt while keeping the excellent tank alive.
Kanap Dec 11th 2009 4:55PM
Most of this new content, well 5-mans anyway are easy to tank, maybe not if your gear is bad but then you should not be doing them in the first place. But if the healer was not looking at DBM i can understand that, its Dps that can't take their eyes form their meter that annoy me.
jorge_av Dec 11th 2009 5:07PM
@ Sorcefire:
I'm a warlock. And I always try not to life tap during a fight where I see everyone is taking spike damage. I only life tap when I need the SP buff and when my Haunt heal is about to hit me. Hell, I even try to bandage quickly after a boss fight after I Life Tapped myself into oblivion. But for some reason, pally and druid healers feel the need to heal me after they see me using a bandage. Dunno.
L Dec 11th 2009 5:28PM
To the person who said that no one explains fights, who's responsibility is it in a pug to know the fight and explain it? I think it is everyone's responsibility, if in a pug, to have a general idea of what is going on and be prepared. If you'd like others to hold your hand and baby steps you through an encounter run it with friends or guildies.
NecDW4 Dec 11th 2009 9:04PM
I agree completely with you. EVERY pug of FoS, our healer tells teh entire group, in NO uncertain terms, that when it casts Mirrored Souls, to literally stop doing anything and everything. And so far, every single pug except for one, has completely ignored what he's said. Hell, the very FIRST pug some scrub DK ran in DURING the explanation and AOTD'd, alone.
Yep, it is unreasonable to EXPECT anyone to know ahead of time how to do a fight, it is NOT unreasonable however, to expect someone to actually PAY ATTENTION when it's explained beforehand.
If a single sentence "OK, when the boss casts Mirrored Souls, dont attack it, or somebody explodes" is too much to read, then you need to re-roll, start from scratch, and this time learn to pay attention. You've had 80 levels to learn how to follow directions.
Msterblaster Dec 11th 2009 1:15PM
I would like to say that the new 5 man heroics are a good time. I have been pugging them. I am a decently geared Arcane Mage and they are still a challenge. When my guild - Maelstrom - walked into the new raid we were expecting some challenge. Happily we were granted that at trash pulls were not the tiring walk though that they have become in Naxx and Ulduar. The boss fights were well thought out and Deathwhisper gave us a few problems but once we figured her out she went down too. I have to say good job on the instances blizz but the buggs as usal are pretty rough. -P.S. what is with the game music in FoS??
Kolenka Dec 11th 2009 3:42PM
It is a reference to the first boss. Bronjham is a huge reference to soul music and it's artists.
Jeff Dec 11th 2009 1:15PM
If there's one complaint I have, it's that ICC feels too easy on 10-man. Our 25-man group is being decently challenged by the bosses after Marrowgar, but our 10-man group blazed through with only one wipe max each boss (None on Marrowgar or Deathwhisper), as we learned the fights.
Deathwhisper especially feels so stripped down on 10-man that the fight becomes a non-issue. There are so many things she does on 25-man that she simply doesn't in 10s, after you kill her, it's almost hard to believe she was a boss at all.
jealouspirate Dec 11th 2009 1:22PM
In regards to ICC 10 being too easy...
Since you mentioned that you're also in a 25man group, you're probably overgeared for it. ICC 10 was balanced around players that have ilevel 232 gear. If you're wearing gear you obtained in ToC25 or ToGC25, then no wonder it's easy!
If you're already going into it with ilevel 232 gear then I apologize, but I find this is the most common explanation.
paradisedreaming Dec 11th 2009 5:50PM
Actually, ICC 10 would (I hope) be tuned for players in largely 245 gear - the togc10 stuff. A good 10 man guild should have been farming togc 10 for weeks and would be pretty decked out in it.
As far as 245 goes, a very strict 10 man would miss out on the 9.25 pieces, but they should still have access to a ton of 245 gear.
I mean, your comment probably holds true. He would be overgeared if he's in TOGC 258. But ilvl 245 isn't overgeared for a 10 man.
And I am wearing mostly 245 gear and in a 10 man guild... I really hope ICC is a challenge when I hit it tonight.
Shardrell Dec 11th 2009 2:05PM
Yeah, ICC 10 isn't too difficult for our 10-person group, mostly because we've been running Heroic ToC 10 and have a lot of 245 gear. We were expecting the real challenge to come from the heroic boss fights, anyway.
PirateEmery Dec 11th 2009 1:14PM
Also, I loved the waves in HoR, simply because I finally got to use Shackle Undead... made life ten times easier...
Netherscourge Dec 11th 2009 1:19PM
I ran HoR last night and the two bosses before the Arthas run seemed pretty easy to me - we had a pally tank LOS-pull behind the little corner and the rest of us just Single-targeted off the MT's target. He was kind enough to mark the mobs on the fly too.
I think 90% of the game's difficulties can be overcome with a great Tank who takes all the initiative.
Nobody even had to bother with CC'ing anything.
PirateEmery Dec 11th 2009 1:21PM
But where's the fun in that?
Shardrell Dec 11th 2009 2:17PM
If they nerf the encounter, though, they'll also need to nerf the alcoves that you can use to LOS everything into a corner. I'm not going to complain either way, being overgeared for the place, but it's really super easy if you use that strat.
PirateEmery Dec 11th 2009 2:28PM
Yeah... how DARE end-game content be challenging?!
Netherscourge Dec 11th 2009 1:15PM
I wish I could raid IC, but I think it's going to be a guild-only, DKP, vent-o-riffic nightmare.
I think I'll just do the 5-mans, gear up on the badges, take some time off from WoW and wait for Cataclysm.
I'll just watch Arthas' demise on Youtube. Nsidia or whatever their name is will probably put a good video together for us to watch lol
Mordockk Dec 11th 2009 1:42PM
Join a guild. Download Vent. Problem Solved. If you want to raid, that's what you have to do. there's no way around it, its the gamed design.....
Are you the DK I pugged with who had a +30stam gem in the crafted bracer Titanium Spikeguards?