Insider Trader: Of Arrows and Bullets
Insider Trader is your inside line on making, selling, buying and using player-made products. We'll cover everything from what to use, how to use it, and why you should care.We'll also make brief stops along the way to talk about what's going on among the people who love the crafting aspect of World of Warcraft.
Well, patch 3.3 has hit the ground, and we're all busy profiting from the vast number of people cycling through new characters, the Dungeon Finder, and new instances. Of course, the big news for Engineers is that there's a very significant new pair of recipes: Iceblade Arrows and Shatter Rounds.
These new items aren't without their own controversy, but it might be a little tough for everyone to understand. At least, it would certainly be worthwhile for us to check out the context of the issue. While some might call it a tempest in a teapot, many engingeers are disheartened with these new plans. Let's take a look behind the cut and examine why these arrows and bullets are such a big deal.
Both the Iceblade Arrows and Shatter Rounds use about the same materials and are actually incredibly cheap to make. The Iceblade Arrows take only a pair of Crystallized Shadow, while the Shatter Rounds are created with Crystallized Earth. With only a pair of crystallized elements, the Engineer can create an entire stack of 1000 projectiles. Both earth and shadow is easily farmed all over Northrend, though I tend to prefer to do such farming in Wintergrasp.
While the reagents to make Iceblade Arrows and Shatter Rounds are relatively cheap, you will have to put some effort in getting the plans in the first place. The plans require one Primordial Saronite to purchase, as well as Honored reputation with the Ashen Verdict. Primordial Saronite drops from 25-man Icecrown Citadel bosses, but you can also buy them for 23 Emblems of Frost. If you're a non-raider doing daily random dungeons to pick up the recipe, it'll take you about 12 days of random dungeons to pick up the plans for Iceblade Arrows or Shatter rounds. That's not exactly a huge burden, but it's definitely a base level of effort.
You can buy the plans for Shatter Rounds and Iceblade bullets right inside the instance to Icecrown Citadel. As soon as you run inside the raid instance, run up to the Ashen Verdict's bunker then swing to your right. Alchemist Finklestein is hanging out there, ready to sell you these incredibly useful patterns.
These projectiles represent a 24 paper doll DPS increase over the previous bullets and arrows. And while that's not a lot of damage in the scheme of things, raiders who are scraping for every advantage possible will certainly be eager to buy these items. And since they're relatively cheap to make, there's almost no reason for a Hunter not to use them with abandon.
But the creation of Iceblade Arrows and Shatter Rounds comes with an important restriction. In order to make the Shatter Rounds, you must be a Goblin Engineer. In order to make the Iceblade Arrows, you must be a Gnomish Engineer. This represents a significant disparity between the two engineering specializations, according to whether you're a gun-based Hunter or a bow-toting Hunter.
That means that even if you've always been an Engineer to make you're own bullets, that is no longer be "enough" to create this tier of ammunition. There's been some discussion about that on the forums already, including some folks having asked for a hotfix. The argument, of course, is that if you're an Engineer, you should be able to make your own projectiles regardless of whether you happen to be equipping a gun or a bow. To many folks, that's the whole point of being an Engineer.
I don't think the fact that you can only make one type of ammo is really that big a deal. While it would certainly be more convenient to be able to make your own ammunition, this is in no way the only important item in the game with the "rely on others" dynamic. You can't enchant your own gear, and make your gems, and make your own glyphs, and make your own leg kits, and so on. Heck, even the idea of doing instances is based on the idea that you rely on other people.
When you consider that it only takes a pair of Crystallized Shadow or Earth to make a stack of these bullets, you must realize the materials for their creation will be in no shortage. A successful Wintergrasp and a half hour of farming would probably leave you with enough ammunition to last dozens of hours of raiding. I wouldn't guess at a ratio of time-to-bullets, since everyone farms at different rates. But, really, how hard is it to farm some Crystallized Shadow?
I expect most people who really need the 24 DPS bump in ammo quality will probably be in guilds with an Engineer, anyway. The most likely routine will be for the hunter to farm their own materials, and hand them to their guildmate to turn them into bullets or arrows. And then they both happily go off to Icecrown to raid together. And since the new tier of ammunition is intended for Icecrown Citadel, that seems like a pretty fair exchange.
The Auction House dynamic of these projectiles will be based on convenience. If you were really hoping to gouge the market with these items, you're probably not going to have a lot of luck. You'll certainly reliably sell the projectiles to folks who don't have that engineer guildmate, but probably not for more than a few gold. (At least, not once the plans have more widely spread out among your server's populace.) I'm not sure I'd even pay two gold, personally, in lieu of gathering the materials myself, and tipping someone to take those items, press "Create All" and then go afk for a while.
That being said, it is definitely still a bummer that an engineering hunter might not be able to make their own stuff. That does tend to be why many hunters pick up the profession in the first place, and it's always nice to be self-reliant. Still, at the end of the day, I think Ghostcrawler nailed the issue when he said that if you can't afford these projectiles, you probably can't afford all the other stuff that goes into a raiding kit. In the face of enchants, gems, glyphs, potions, and leg kits, a couple crystallized elements is totally not a big deal. I think it all comes out in the wash.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Insider Trader (Professions)







Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Machira Dec 13th 2009 4:43PM
Well, so far arrows are for 45g per 1k on Azjol-Nerun EU. NOt very funny.
Knob Dec 13th 2009 4:57PM
And for now there's absolutely no need to use them. The content that's available in ICC at the moment is easily doable with vendor ammo even. I blame the hunters who actually buy them for exorbitant prices than the engineers who try and sell them. The only time this new ammo will be useful will be when you're doing hard mode ICC and by that time every engineer in your guild should be able to make them. And if there aren't enough engineers in your guild or they all have only one specialization, there'll be a lot of other engineers on the server and due to the abundance of the ammo and the cheap cost of making them, they'll be very reasonably priced.
Coldbear Dec 13th 2009 5:01PM
The price will go down in a bit. Not everyone needs to have epic ammo all the bloody time.
So no, I have no sympathy for people who complain about the price of this ammo in the first two-three weeks of patch 3.3
However, any Hunter who picks up Engineering and wants to only use bows or guns or whatever and then can't even make his own ammo unless he wants to go to the trouble of changing engineering spec - yeah, they got that part wrong.
Not that Hunter's should be entitled not to take a hit in efficiency or 'flavour' choice if they decide to limit themselves to one particular type of weapon - but I can see how this would look unfair to a lot of players.
So yes, you're right imo - NOT FUN - but I agree with you for different reasons than you stated.
I'm in a position to profit heavily from this in a few days - but I don't think this situation should have happened to begin with. Especially not with them expressively stating that they want to get rid of ammo cost altogether - not that Hunters aren't one of the cheapest classes already, what with little repair costs in raids compared to tanks at least.
/2c
Undra Dec 13th 2009 5:24PM
This is the real issue. The inconvience is one thing, but people on the Ah are out of their minds when they put in prices. One rediculously common eternal for five thousand shots. Any raiding engineer will have one of the plans by the end of the year, so whatever lunatic farmed up their rep before the first week was over is just looking for that one sucker.
muddy Dec 13th 2009 11:45PM
That's cheap, a stack of bullets on Arathor was up for 10k.
alvl Dec 14th 2009 9:18AM
considering that (ex) lvl 43 stam+agil green gear always goes for aprox 35g on my server, I don't think that's unreasonable.
Lotharic Dec 14th 2009 9:21AM
45g a stack is an incredible deal, on arygos they wannt 100g a stack. Riciculous for hunters to have even more expense to raid, with arrows and bullets that cost this much. Did Blizard promise ammo that didnt get used up? This seems like the opposiye direction.
elstor Dec 13th 2009 4:11PM
You need to be honored with Ashen Verdict to get the plans. The only way to get this rep is in ICC raid, so if you're a non-raider you don't get the plans.
Kaphik Dec 13th 2009 4:18PM
If you can get enough people to go ijn and farm the trash inside, you can get the rep. no need to down the bosses even.
Lokasenna Dec 13th 2009 5:52PM
If you're a non-raider, you have no need for the plans.
Dominik Dec 13th 2009 6:23PM
"If you're a non-raider, you have no need for the plans."
Sure you have, in arena.
Rilgon Dec 13th 2009 7:16PM
"Sure you have, in arena."
His point still stands.
Draelan Dec 13th 2009 4:13PM
Just a clarification. The way you state it, you make it sound as if a non-raiding engineer can get the pattern simply by doing the random heroic daily. However, that's not true. While that may get you enough Frost emblems to buy the primordial saronite, and thus the pattern, you need to be Honored with the Ashen Verdict to purchase it. And you can ONLY gain Ashen Verdict rep inside the ICC raid.
Just thought you should be clearer on that, since I have seen people just prior to the patch wondering if you could get Ashen Verdict rep in the new 5-mans. (Which this makes it sounds like you can.)
rkaliski Dec 13th 2009 10:04PM
Even if you don't want to raid, you can farm rep from the mobs before the first boss.
Kharay1977 Dec 13th 2009 4:21PM
Patch 3.2.0: "Gnomish Engineers and Goblin Engineers can now switch profession specializations for a fee."
Where's the problem?
Before responding with "But I want to have both the arrows AND the bullets AND the perks of Goblin (or Gnomish) Engineering", consider this: behaviour like that has dumbed the game down enough already. Let's not make it into more of a joke than it already has become. If people keep whining about every little bit, soon Blizzard will have no option but to offer us all free max level characters with full Tier .
As with everything in life (and in gaming, usually at least) - everyone comes at a cost.
Falcon6 Dec 13th 2009 4:42PM
It's more or less a matter of convenience. It's not like an alchemist where you don't need to get an elixir alchemist to get the flasks. [though you'd get the most profit out of using an elixir alchemist] With this stuff, you're required to find either one or the other. It's completely unnecessary.
This is also one of the first cases where a class's DPS is reliant on another person's raiding simply because of professions.
They've done buyable ammo for reputation.
They've done crafted ammo through engineers.
But it just seems odd to combine both reputation and a crafting profession to create this new tier of ammo.
And it's even more odd to use a specialization system that doesn't really get much time in the sun these days.
Yes, things come at a cost, but it just feels like such a hassle that a Hunter Engineer, if they wanted to keep their ranged weaponry in check, would be forced to switch to another specialization.
It's not "dumbing down" the game. It's making things more complicated than they really need to be. And the idea that making it so that ammo is able to be crafted by all engineers is going to cause Blizzard to require they give us max level characters with full tier for free is such a crappy argument.
Jakravdian Dec 13th 2009 4:42PM
While you can switch specs...you also lose all recipes specific to that spec, I believe.
You can pay said fee to switch specs, but you need to buy another Primordial Saronite each time to re-learn the appropriate ammo recipe.
A less than ideal situation.
mcgruber Dec 13th 2009 4:31PM
The only problem I see with epic ammo is this goblin/gnomish nonsense. What an odd time to bring back specializations that up until now have been totally ignored. In a game that's consistently evolved by breaking down artificial barriers (with exception to ICC) there's a definite disconnect here.
ummeiko Dec 13th 2009 4:31PM
The irk with me as a non-hunter engineer is that profession specific recipies and such have been thrown to the side for a long time now... pretty much the entire expansion, and even the end of BC (after the initial tailoring/bs spec-specific patterns there weren't any more). Anyone of any spec for the profession could make and use the same items. And suddenly they bring it back for ammo for engineers.
furry Dec 13th 2009 4:31PM
The problem with it is that these are the only end-game items worth anything that requires a spec for profession. There is no requirement for Swordsmiths or Armorsmiths. There is nothing that a Spellweave Tailor can make that an Ebonweave Tailor can't (not sure if that's the right word, but thats not the point).. etc.
Why are engineers the only ones who are restricted from making something within their profession when no other professions have this restriction?
I am only talking about things worth something in end-game. There are a few special items for each, I guess but none worth anything, except for arrows and bullets.