Insider Trader: Of Arrows and Bullets
Insider Trader is your inside line on making, selling, buying and using player-made products. We'll cover everything from what to use, how to use it, and why you should care.We'll also make brief stops along the way to talk about what's going on among the people who love the crafting aspect of World of Warcraft.
Well, patch 3.3 has hit the ground, and we're all busy profiting from the vast number of people cycling through new characters, the Dungeon Finder, and new instances. Of course, the big news for Engineers is that there's a very significant new pair of recipes: Iceblade Arrows and Shatter Rounds.
These new items aren't without their own controversy, but it might be a little tough for everyone to understand. At least, it would certainly be worthwhile for us to check out the context of the issue. While some might call it a tempest in a teapot, many engingeers are disheartened with these new plans. Let's take a look behind the cut and examine why these arrows and bullets are such a big deal.
Both the Iceblade Arrows and Shatter Rounds use about the same materials and are actually incredibly cheap to make. The Iceblade Arrows take only a pair of Crystallized Shadow, while the Shatter Rounds are created with Crystallized Earth. With only a pair of crystallized elements, the Engineer can create an entire stack of 1000 projectiles. Both earth and shadow is easily farmed all over Northrend, though I tend to prefer to do such farming in Wintergrasp.
While the reagents to make Iceblade Arrows and Shatter Rounds are relatively cheap, you will have to put some effort in getting the plans in the first place. The plans require one Primordial Saronite to purchase, as well as Honored reputation with the Ashen Verdict. Primordial Saronite drops from 25-man Icecrown Citadel bosses, but you can also buy them for 23 Emblems of Frost. If you're a non-raider doing daily random dungeons to pick up the recipe, it'll take you about 12 days of random dungeons to pick up the plans for Iceblade Arrows or Shatter rounds. That's not exactly a huge burden, but it's definitely a base level of effort.
You can buy the plans for Shatter Rounds and Iceblade bullets right inside the instance to Icecrown Citadel. As soon as you run inside the raid instance, run up to the Ashen Verdict's bunker then swing to your right. Alchemist Finklestein is hanging out there, ready to sell you these incredibly useful patterns.
These projectiles represent a 24 paper doll DPS increase over the previous bullets and arrows. And while that's not a lot of damage in the scheme of things, raiders who are scraping for every advantage possible will certainly be eager to buy these items. And since they're relatively cheap to make, there's almost no reason for a Hunter not to use them with abandon.
But the creation of Iceblade Arrows and Shatter Rounds comes with an important restriction. In order to make the Shatter Rounds, you must be a Goblin Engineer. In order to make the Iceblade Arrows, you must be a Gnomish Engineer. This represents a significant disparity between the two engineering specializations, according to whether you're a gun-based Hunter or a bow-toting Hunter.
That means that even if you've always been an Engineer to make you're own bullets, that is no longer be "enough" to create this tier of ammunition. There's been some discussion about that on the forums already, including some folks having asked for a hotfix. The argument, of course, is that if you're an Engineer, you should be able to make your own projectiles regardless of whether you happen to be equipping a gun or a bow. To many folks, that's the whole point of being an Engineer.
I don't think the fact that you can only make one type of ammo is really that big a deal. While it would certainly be more convenient to be able to make your own ammunition, this is in no way the only important item in the game with the "rely on others" dynamic. You can't enchant your own gear, and make your gems, and make your own glyphs, and make your own leg kits, and so on. Heck, even the idea of doing instances is based on the idea that you rely on other people.
When you consider that it only takes a pair of Crystallized Shadow or Earth to make a stack of these bullets, you must realize the materials for their creation will be in no shortage. A successful Wintergrasp and a half hour of farming would probably leave you with enough ammunition to last dozens of hours of raiding. I wouldn't guess at a ratio of time-to-bullets, since everyone farms at different rates. But, really, how hard is it to farm some Crystallized Shadow?
I expect most people who really need the 24 DPS bump in ammo quality will probably be in guilds with an Engineer, anyway. The most likely routine will be for the hunter to farm their own materials, and hand them to their guildmate to turn them into bullets or arrows. And then they both happily go off to Icecrown to raid together. And since the new tier of ammunition is intended for Icecrown Citadel, that seems like a pretty fair exchange.
The Auction House dynamic of these projectiles will be based on convenience. If you were really hoping to gouge the market with these items, you're probably not going to have a lot of luck. You'll certainly reliably sell the projectiles to folks who don't have that engineer guildmate, but probably not for more than a few gold. (At least, not once the plans have more widely spread out among your server's populace.) I'm not sure I'd even pay two gold, personally, in lieu of gathering the materials myself, and tipping someone to take those items, press "Create All" and then go afk for a while.
That being said, it is definitely still a bummer that an engineering hunter might not be able to make their own stuff. That does tend to be why many hunters pick up the profession in the first place, and it's always nice to be self-reliant. Still, at the end of the day, I think Ghostcrawler nailed the issue when he said that if you can't afford these projectiles, you probably can't afford all the other stuff that goes into a raiding kit. In the face of enchants, gems, glyphs, potions, and leg kits, a couple crystallized elements is totally not a big deal. I think it all comes out in the wash.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Insider Trader (Professions)
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 4)
nekorion Dec 13th 2009 4:35PM
hope your on a low pop server with a non-existent raid populace if you want to sell these.
Michelle Dec 13th 2009 4:36PM
For me it's not about the price of the ammo, it's the frustrating scarcity of engineers.
Anecdotally: I'm in a raiding guild, I'm a hunter, and I'm an engineer. Because of our generally high raiding population, we have about three consistently raiding engineers total in the guild. However, not one of them is a Goblin engineer - we'd all gone for Gnomish because of the "fun" factor (Gnomish X Ray Specs anyone?), and possibly pet choices long ago when the Pet Bombling and Lil'Smoky were engineering-type specific.
Because you need honored reputation in order to purchase the pattern, and the raiding guilds on my server that get this rep first contain many min/maxers who don't love ye old engineering, I've yet to see any of the new ammo on the auction house or brandished in trade, and think that it will be a while before I do.
I was all glumly set to put away my X Ray Specs - or find a bow I could love so much as my cranky blunderbuss - just so that I could make the bullets for my gun in a week or so, when the awesome priest engineer in my guild volunteered to change from Gnomish to Goblin. I'm lucky to have such great friends, but honestly...
Where are all the Goblin engineers hiding? Can I lure you out with candy bars? They've been in my bags since Halloween, but they're still good...
Ringo Flinthammer Dec 14th 2009 4:04AM
The whispers have already started for me, as a raiding engineer who everyone know has switched specs to goblin.
But I'm not spending my evening farming the same handful of trash over and over again -- I already quit EQ1, thanks. I have the primordial saronite ready to go, and after next weekend's ICC runs, I'll be able to crank out the bullets.
Still, it's ridiculous that there have to be engineers who fall on their sword and change specs, when no other professions are worrying about it in ICC.
Redielin Dec 13th 2009 4:39PM
On making your own stuff:
My Priest is Enchant/Tailoring (Enchants for all my toons, Crafted gear/leg enchants for my casters, loads of enchanting mats in the process)
My Warrior is Mining/JC (I make all my own gems instead of buying the cuts, except for a few here and there that I don't have the cuts for because I'm lazy about doing the JC daily/Rings to DE for more enchanting mats)
My Mage is Herbs/inscription, although about all I use that for is making vellums to sell enchants with or to enchant my alts
My rogue is Herbs/Alchemy, he transmutes gems for my warrior to cut, also makes my flasks
As far as raiding goes, I am a one-stop shop. I only raid on my Priest, sometimes my Warrior, and on my Mage once in a blue moon, but getting the stuff I need (especially enchants right now) is pretty easy.
dewman of ravenholt Dec 13th 2009 4:51PM
as a Gnomish Engineer.. i feel kinda cheated. i don't know anyone who is not using a gun when raiding. even before this i only made m.c. to sell on the ah because arrows never sell and are a waste of my time and matts.
thats my only prob with it. and it's why i'm in no big hurry to learn something that i will never use.
kinda like the chopper i paid 300g to learn how to make them and have only made 2.... no one really wants to sink that much money into it.
and also as far as the statement that mr. gray made about tiping someone to take the matts that he farmed and hitting make all button and going afk.... there is more to it then that. you have to level your skill and rep high enough to make them. and that is why you tip.sorry but if that is no big deal to you then become a engineer yourself. but until then ... you should tip pple. but that goes for any profession not just engineer's.
it's kinda like how enchantors are asking for tips now that they can not make any money from enchanting matts.
thank you for your time,
dewman of stormrage.
p.s
how can i change my wow.com screen name to dewman of stormrage now that i moved from ravenholt?
Tyr Dec 13th 2009 4:50PM
Don't worry guys, your dps will still be fine even if you don't have this ammo.
Falcon6 Dec 13th 2009 4:59PM
The point was never to find a spot where our DPS would be "fine". The point was to keep our DPS at optimal level. And this is a hurdle we have to face. A hurdle no other class really needs to deal with.
For some Hunters, "just fine" DPS is...well, just fine. But when you're at a level where you need to be at your best, you can't settle for "just fine." No matter how much gold you have, it's still silly to feel like your DPS is reliant on another person's profession and raiding status...it's why flasks are available to everyone, and not just for those who are in higher-end raiding "tiers".
Tarbh Dec 13th 2009 5:06PM
Fine? Fine isn't good enough!
We need to have great dps, now great would be decent.....
Having the ammo boost would be good for helping me do great(decent) dps, which is fine, except the awkward inaccessibility of it all is bad(You don't want to KNOW what that really means).
Turlagh Dec 13th 2009 5:01PM
Gnomish Engineers have been short-changed from the beginning of patch 3.x. First X-Ray goggles (who wants to see nekkid Dwarven women anyway?) And now this!!!
Ametrine Dec 14th 2009 12:08AM
"who wants to see nekkid Dwarven women anyway"
(raises hand)
Tarbh Dec 13th 2009 5:17PM
I think there needs to be a flowchart between this, and the hyjal ammo, just to show how bad the whole system is, and how it only effects one class in particular.
Comon, if you want to be self-sufficient as a hunter, you have to have an 80 engineer who has the rep with the top-end raid faction, and also have the right engineering spec in order to make the ammo for the type of weapon you have, and god help you if you get an upgrade of a different type. Oh, and it's a finite resource you have to keep topped-up for every raid.
You're breaking our balls here blizz, breaking out balls. I know you think us hunters were made for farming, but we can't be super-awesome all the time.
Luna Dec 13th 2009 5:21PM
Grrrr Argh I'm a Goblin Engineer using a bow... >_<
Undra Dec 13th 2009 5:30PM
Same here, And the only guns in the instance won't start to drop until next year.
Ringo Flinthammer Dec 14th 2009 4:00AM
Well, we saw the tank gun drop off trash in the 25-man version this Saturday, but who gives a crap what the tank's ammo is?
Junrei Dec 13th 2009 8:50PM
I've yet to see any kind of explanation of the spec requirement that makes any sense. If you're going to bring back specs, bring them back for everyone. At least it would make sense for most of those professions, presumably players choose the spec that will most benefit them (unless they're in it for the money). But engineering doesn't really work like that. I chose gnomish engineering so I could port to Gadgetzen instead of having to take a nearly 10 min flight from Darnasus (or wait forever for a boat) to get to the south of Kalimdor, not because I thought I would be wielding bows in some far distant future.
Kharay1977 Dec 13th 2009 5:46PM
@Falcon6, "And the idea that making it so that ammo is able to be crafted by all engineers is going to cause Blizzard to require they give us max level characters with full tier for free is such a crappy argument."
Whereas I agree with you that that statement of mine was a gross exaggeration, it was to make a point. The point being - WHEN will it be enough? How EASY do people want this game to be? But, that is an entirely separate discussion really. One I would be glad to have with you, but, this is not the time... nor the place. ;)
Falcon6 Dec 13th 2009 6:18PM
There's nothing I'd rather love to do than argue during my finals week..=P
However, I do have one thing to say: I don't want the game to be hard because I have to shoot off my own arm and leg to find a Gnomish Engineer that has the recipe for my ammo. I want the game to be hard because...well....because it's hard.
If the only way to make the game harder is to add restrictions on ammo that's used primarily by a single class...well, I don't even know how that works out.
Artificial Dec 14th 2009 4:43AM
Things that would actually make the game more challenging:
Making bosses tougher.
Making bosses employ better/trickier tactics.
Making dungeon mobs coordinate better, or be in larger groups, or such.
Making the things that drop the items you need harder to kill.
Things that do nothing to make the game any harder, just make it more time consuming and tedious:
Making people walk/ride/fly slower.
Making dungeons longer to you have to clear through more trash to get to the end (but the groups are no bigger, so each group of trash is just as easy as the last, there's just more groups to chew through).
Making drop rates lower instead of making the things dropping items harder to kill (thus, it's just as easy to chew through the 100th monster as the 10th one, you just spend a lot more time chewing through them to get the drop).
Making things cost more (gold is not hard to acquire, adding cost doesn't make things harder to get, it just makes it more time consuming).
I don't want the game to get any easier. I've very much like to see it become more challenging. But I DO want the game to be less tedious and boring.
Thus, your "how EASY do you want things to get" question is misplaced. There's nothing involved in this topic in which people are asking to make the game any easier. They just want to waste less time doing stupid shit that's not at all difficult, like farm rep and mats or mess around with the AH to get ammo.
tahlatria Dec 13th 2009 6:41PM
Okay, I play a hunter. Now from day one.. we have had to constantly buy ammunition. Blizz keeps dangling that carrot in front of us.. " We're going to fix that". They should keep their word.
Now , no one else has to keep buying things to throw. No other class has the expense. If you're NOT an engineer, you come to realize that there is gouging going to happen out the wazoo. My mats and you still want to charge me for making something that I should have, say like a rogue, an endless supply of.
Oh I understand that the engineer has to farm rep. In fact we all have to farm that rep along with all the others. But Blizz is making it a condition for the engineer to get the pattern, the engineer does so hoping to rake in the gold, which by reading the posts here, I guess they think they're time is pretty expensive.
Now can someone tell me this.. why in the hades do we have to jump through these hoops while no other class has this issue? I mean there's always been in the issues of bows being as scare as hen's teeth at the upper levels compared to guns which do drop and can be made by a good engineer. Now we have to jump through hoops to find an engineer to make the arrows when they finally farm the rep. (which doesn't seem fair to them either btw. )
Edge Dec 13th 2009 7:00PM
And what other class has the expense that tanks have when it comes to repairs? Your delusional if you think your the only one getting gouged. It's TWO freakin mats, the ammo is gonna hit rock bottom prices eventually. If you want to be the first at something, it's gonna cost you. Cost you money in wipes for being a brand new instance/raid, cost you money in pots and food to be the first to do a hardmode, and lots of gold if you are dumb enough to bother to pay 42g or whatever for a 24dps bump, when there's actual gear upgrades you should be worrying about at this point.
I thought this might be an issue until I heard the mats required. Now I know it's just people like to QQ.