The Queue: Going to a party party
by Michael Sacco 
Dec 17th 2009 at 6:00PM
It's my little brother's birthday today -- fourteen years old, what the heck -- so today's Queue is quick and dirty so I can get the caking and presenting done.
Lochlorien asked...
Will we be able to wield Frostmourne after we defeat Arthas?
Nope, the developers opted not to make Frostmourne an equippable weapon, replacing it as the Icecrown legendary weapon with Shadowmourne.
Shabala asked...
With Deathwing's cataclysm and the reconstruction of the old world, will we be getting new music and a soundtrack for the altered zones?
No indication yet, but we should have more info when Blizzard actually releases some new Cataclysm information. Three months without an update to the Cataclysm site, guys! I know what a slow PR drip is, but that's a little much!
F3rrat asked...
Burning lore question (pun incoming) about Titans, Old Gods, and the Burning Crusade: Where are the first two in the third? Azeroth has Titan strongholds, Draenor has none. Azeroth has eevil old gods, Draenor has none. Come to think of it, does Draenor even have Dragon Aspects?
It's still up in the air whether the Titans were the driving force behind the creation of planets besides Azeroth specifically, so until we hear otherwise, it's safe to assume that Draenor is separate completely from Azeroth's pantheon of good and evil.
Strictly speaking, Draenor could probably use a few Aspects to keep the place duct-taped together, but knowing what's been happening with Aspects lately, maybe that's not such a good idea.
Mooma asked...
Now that we can ignore cross-realm players (if I read the patch notes right), I would like to know whether ignoring a player means you won't get put in a random PuG with them?
Correct -- you will not be placed in a group with anyone on your ignore list, even if they're from a different server.
Darthregis asked...
I don't know if this has been asked yet, but why are we only getting 5 more levels with Cataclysm as opposed to 10 like the last two expansions?
Blizzard's response to this question was (paraphrased):
"We wanted to improve the early game and the endgame significantly, and having half the normal extra expansion levels to deal with meant that much more development time could be placed into those two specific areas of the expansion."
The questing experience to endgame in each expansion has historically been a race to get to max level anyway, and we anticipate that 80-85 will take about as long as 70-80 anyway. It's just numbers.
JoJa asked...
For the Queue: When are we going to get to meet the new Priest and Hunter columnists? Deadline was a week ago people, I got faces to melt!
Patience, grasshopper. We got a ton of applications for each position and it'll be a little bit before we can come to a decision on who's the best fit for the site.
Have questions about the World of Warcraft? The WoW.com crew is here with The Queue, our daily Q&A column! Leave your questions in the comments and we'll do our best to answer 'em!Filed under: The Burning Crusade, Wrath of the Lich King, The Queue, Cataclysm
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 7)
ben Dec 17th 2009 6:06PM
take a ch-ch-ch-chance!
BIRTHDAY :D
ben Dec 17th 2009 8:17PM
For the minority who don't get the refference, and just for sh#ts and giggles, heres the song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_1PAx5Ycwo
Nawaf Dec 18th 2009 7:16AM
I reformatted the computer, deleting everything in it because it had a problem. Now I installed WoW, the expansions, and got to patch 3.3. For some reason the graphics are bad and the game is very slow, it's almost unplayable. Any tips?
Another question: Why is Thrall green skinned?
jealouspirate Dec 17th 2009 6:17PM
I have an honest question, but I might get people mad at me...
Is Thrall a Mary-Sue, and does it even matter?
Described by Blizzard as the most powerful Shaman on Azeroth, he created the New Horde, on the Cataclysm site his description by Blizzard talks about him being the symbol of nobility, courage, compassion, etc...
Many players, including Alliance, respect or even idolize him. Some say he has flaws, many deny it. What is the deal with this? If it was any other character, I think people would hate him because of his Mary-Sue qualities, but we love him.
Is it because he's written better? Because his race has many flaws, even if he doesn't? Or do we just need a perfect hero sometimes?
I'm not trying to start some faction flame war, this honestly is intriguing to me.
Ed Dec 17th 2009 6:25PM
I don't think Thrall is a Mary Sue.
He returned shamanism to the Horde and helped break them out of the shackles of demonic corruption. He has a likable personality and a deep backstory. He's not exactly a dynamic, rich character but by WoW standards he's one of the best we have.
If you're not convinced, I advise you to play through Warcraft 3 as well as do the Escape from Durnholde Keep dungeon in Caverns of Time. Without Thrall, World of Warcraft would not be the same.
RogueJedi86 Dec 17th 2009 7:10PM
I think he's a big Mary Sue. It's okay to be a cool guy, but Thrall is portrayed as having no flaws. The only flaw I've heard he possibly has is that he trusts too much, but that's hardly a terrible flaw. Mary Sues tend to be perfect and flawless, which definitely fits Thrall. It's more obvious when you compare him to Varian, who has flaws like a real person(namely his over-aggressive reactions towards the Horde). Thrall though is just perfect.
Craig R Dec 17th 2009 7:15PM
so sick and tired of people throwing this term around like it has any weight or legitimacy. It's just an excuse to complain about cliches in character development.
For some reason, WoW seems to be a favourite target of this "literary term" (using such a title is generous). Rhonin in particular seems to be the biggest offender in its eyes. While I agree he's hardly the most dynamic character, he barely even scores against the standards set for mary-sueism, yet people are insistent he is one of the greatest to ever walk a page.
The people who use this term seriously are guilty of using another term, hyperbole. Unfortunately they forgot hyperbole is not meant to be taken literally.
Craig R Dec 17th 2009 7:23PM
And see, we get comments like this, from people who don't actually understand how mary sueism works.
all they see is "has no flaws" and they run with it.
There's far more to the process than just that.
It's an evaluation of an overabundance of clichéd character traits.
if you insist on using the thing, at least use it correctly.
Kia Dec 17th 2009 7:37PM
Thrall is -not- a Mary Sue. I think you need to get your definition straight, because just because a character is skilled and virtuous it does not mean they're remotely a Mary-Sue. Sheesh.
Alanid Dec 17th 2009 7:37PM
A couple of Thrall's flaws: He is very cautious, he basically fell in love with a human, he does not keep Garrosh in line even when he is obviously crossing it, apparently he doesn't learn his mistakes either, since he once sent Grom Hellscream on his own into a forest to gather wood - he ended up drinking demon blood and killing a demi-god - he's now sent Garrosh Hellscream almost on his own (In Saurfang we trust) to Northrend. He can also be overly compassionate.
I like to think that he isn't a Mary Sue... but it's really a matter of how much you know about said character and how you interpret it.
Ostentaneous Dec 17th 2009 7:47PM
I personally am happy that Thrall is so good. The one thing I hate about the Warcraft universe is how all the major heroes either all have major flaws or a major fall from grace. Other than Thrall and possibly Jaina there are very few good guys to get behind. I think Blizzard loves either turning people evil or just destroying what we thought was going on. There was Arthas, Kael, now the Cataclysm is coming. Not only can you not beat this game, I doubt we will win at the end of the last expansion.
Tori Dec 17th 2009 7:49PM
I do not think Thrall is a Mary Sue.
To me, Thrall is a very well written character. Sure he's easy to love, but that doesn't make him a Mary Sue. I think that term is being thrown around a lot just because there are so many horribly written fanfics and such lately that any *truly* good characters are hard to see as just that.
Sunaseni Dec 17th 2009 8:18PM
Your definition of Mary Sue is off. A Mary Sue is not defined by how many flaws he/she has. Many bad authors try to add superficial flaws to their characters in an attempt to make him not a Mary Sue. (i.e. Ugly, "boring" personality, etc.)
A Mary Sue is defined by what she DOES to the story and other characters. If she warps the story around herself, she's a Mary Sue (or a Gary Stu/Marty Stu for males). To take a simple example, Bella Swan from Twilight. Boring, no personality, little liked in her old school, suddenly becomes the object of affection for a vampire and werewolf. (...Or so I hear. I only read the TVTropes articles on it. I never read the books. Really.)
Under this definition, Thrall, who does indeed have enemies (some of whom aren't exactly wrong in their views) and has made a host of mistakes, is not a Mary Sue. The story doesn't revolve around him or his exploits, and he doesn't single-handedly kill Old Gods. Now, if Cataclysm were to entirely be about how he kills Deathwing and fixes the entire world... Yeah, then he'd be a Mary Sue.
Sterdoker Dec 17th 2009 8:18PM
Warcraft III & Frozen Throne's Thrall was not a Mary Sue. He was a noble leader and an idealist with a vision. I think Blizzard did a great job there, not only with Thrall but everybody else, creating personalities that resulted believable.
Then came wow, and well... Mmorpg killed the Rpg star.
Brien Dec 17th 2009 9:04PM
Thall is a totally just shy of being a mary sue, regardless of the efforts by other responders to insist he isn't or that people are misapplying the term.
The only reason he isn't a mary sue is because he isn't a transparent personification within the fiction world of the author. But hes pretty much got every other characteristic going for him, right down to the "omg he has flaws but they're good flaws" like he is "too patient" and "too trusting".
Raz Dec 17th 2009 9:48PM
Comparing Varian to Thrall is kind of unfair- Thrall is the Horde's Jaina (even though she has less clout), and Varian is the Alliance's Basic Ca.. Garrosh (even though Varian has a few non-jackass moments), as it sounds like they're cementing in place for Cataclysm.
Now that that's out of the way, yes, Thrall's kind of a Mary-Sue. Not Rhonin-bad, but pretty bad, yeah. I think the reason most people love him anyways is because he's such a huge part of Warcraft, was created by Blizzard, can't do everything, and is more savior than full-blown god.
Compared with Rhonin: some pansy little mage created by an outside source who has done more than any character made in-house to change the course of history in Azeroth, save maybe Sargeras, and is the only reason several hardcore badasses are still alive/lived as long as they did. Also, he's married to Sylvanas' older sister and is the A'dal of Wrath- the insults never end.
In fact, even if Thrall was a little bit more perfect & had somehow managed to keep Grom alive, he'd still be better loved, because of both the in-house reason and because Grom is freaking legendary and is missed by all fans of badassedness.
Amaxe Dec 17th 2009 10:23PM
I thought he was a Mary Sue in "Lord of the Clans" anyway. He learns everything perfectly, everyone is in awe of him, his story seems pretty cliched.
Of course in Lord of the Clans they made it seem heroic that 2,000 orcs taking on a fraction of that, led by a drunkard, when in reality it would be pretty incompetent if it were even close.
That's my $0.02
Jay Dec 17th 2009 10:44PM
Thrall isn't a Mary-Sue, but he is the creation of a very bad roleplayer.
He was found and raised by humans after his parents were brutally murdered
Growing up he was beaten and abused by his new parents and he swore to get even
He fell in love with the daughter of the human woman who breastfed him
After escaping his cruel parents twice he was immediately taken under the wing by the leader of the Orcs after a long and arduous trek to start his rise to greatness
RogueJedi86 Dec 17th 2009 11:36PM
Another bit to add: Thrall is voiced by Chris Metzen, the guy who creates the lore for Warcraft. So Thrall is perfect as written by the guy who writes the lore, who also plays the character. That's equivalent to the original definition of Mary Sue, which was an author-insert into fan-fic who was perfect and adored by all the other characters in the pre-existing world that it was a fanfic of. Thrall fits that pretty closely(with arguability on whether Metzen created all of Warcraft).
Sure Metzen also voices Varian, but Varian isn't a Mary Sue like Thrall. Varian has flaws, many of which Hordies(and some Alliance) use to accuse Varian of being a terrible person and equivalent to a future villain.
Hoggersbud Dec 17th 2009 11:49PM
Whether or not Thrall is not a Mary Sue. He's a Gary Stu. :P