Breakfast Topic: What class mechanics have you had to learn to deal with?
by Adam Holisky 
Dec 22nd 2009 at 8:00AM
Enter patch 3.3 and cross-server grouping via the dungeon finder. Each person from each server now brings with them sometimes extremely divergent styles of play and ways they handle their class. I've found the number of hunters that don't have Feign Death on their toolbar to be astounding. On my server that kind of behavior would be shouted down in a big way. In cross-server groups, it almost seems acceptable.
A successful group leader, especially a successful tank that's aware of everything going on, will have to strike a balance between getting members to fall in line (for lack of a better phrase), or just ignoring the problems and dealing with poor game play. It's this coping technique -- the ignoring part -- that we're here to talk about today. What are the class and game play mechanics you've learned to ignore and just deal with players not understanding?
As a tank I've "given up" trying to get people to DPS the right mob, which is something that I've more or less demanded previously. Instead, I'll tend to watch meters and focus my threat generating abilities on the mob the highest DPSer is going after -- thereby ensuring, hopefully, a clean trash clear. Of course this isn't always possible, but I've found that since I've started to deal with the lack of general understanding of mob kill order my runs have been much less stressful for me, and much less death infused. Of course, a complimentary issue to this is people not understanding threat, but that's always been the case in every MMO.
As a DPS, I've found that not all paladins buff correctly. The number of times I've been given Blessing of Wisdom on my hunter is amazing. Kings, please? But alas, it's just easier to ignore players not knowing how to buff correctly than attempting to correct it.
My views on the issue might be a little fatalistic, since if prompted most players will change their ways. But the point of heroics right now seems to be to farm as many badges as fast as possible. There's little to no consideration given to loot and general good game play, leaving many of us to have to ask ourselves -- what class mechanics are we just going to have to deal with?
Filed under: Breakfast Topics
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 12)
Redielin Dec 22nd 2009 8:14AM
Some of it is differences between players too. On my healer, I've seen tanks who chain pull and tanks who sit and mark everything like we actually are going to CC or something, from the same server. I've had healers who can keep up with my tank and healers who seem to be asleep at the switch. As for DPS, the way I see it, if they pull aggro, they get to tank it (and I'll heal em on my healer, it gives me something to do). I'll do my best to pull it off them, but priority goes to the healer.
the new 5 mans (especially Halls of Reflection) can punish this playstyle, because its real easy for some bursty specs (ret, fury, enh, etc) to pull aggro just in their normal rotation, and we're all so used to the nicely grouped up trash mobs that this playstyle can cause player deaths and deaths in HoR can cause wipes (unless you're in a group like the one full of guildies where we 4 manned it :P )
joe Dec 22nd 2009 9:13AM
I've had a few groups with similar effects, DK's not knowing what death and decay is for aoe etc, but for the most part every instance in run in a manner that I am very happy about. Compared to the usual time consuming heroic runs I'm privy to, these runs are so fast that most times I never even bother to look what classes where playing with let alone if there playing, or buffing right.
Anathemys Dec 22nd 2009 9:16AM
I agree. I've had, during my time in random dungeons, one really good tank, and one really bad one. They both had about the same level gear, both were druids, one just plain stunk. He couldn't keep aggro against the 'lock's imp (metaphoricly speaking of course, im sure that the 'lock was doing just as much dps as the imp).
revons Dec 22nd 2009 10:54AM
Only pvp rets are bursty. Sadly in 5 mans you might be correct in calling them bursty but a normal ret takes 15-20seconds to ramp up.
Ronjoi Dec 22nd 2009 11:46AM
Last night I used random to get a group just for The Pit of Souls. I want the Femur staff (wouldn’t turn down the hilt) and have limited time for the game. Good Furry Warrior Good hybrid mage with perma Elemental. Holy priest. Me Balance druid. Ok no pally buffs but the group looks good so far. Tank DCs we wait 5 minutes then kick and re-queue. Troll Warrior pops in and the first thing out of his mouth is "O you have the glyph for water elemental I need to get that too." The Warrior beat me to it "Why you’re a warrior."
"O ha ha this is my alt, by the way anybody know what bosses there are in here?" I should have left I should have taken the hit, 60G in repair later, and that's on leather, we finally kill Ick the tank is dead the fury tanked the encounter. We rez the tank no response. A Wait a min try rez again, no response. I say "you there" The tank responds I am in Tanaris processing adamantite I have 153 of them. Group disbands.
So to answer the question what new tactics have I learned sometimes it's better to take the hit and just leave.
Also never ever use Starfall in Icecrown bad things happen.
jbodar Dec 22nd 2009 6:00PM
@revons
Maybe he's referring to multi-mob trash pulls if the Ret is using SoComm? It can be hard if the Ret outgears the tank and chains a few crits or the tank just isn't good at keeping AoE aggro -- perhaps not specced/glyphed for it.
Arbitor Dec 22nd 2009 11:35PM
Has anyone else ran into the "Stubborn paladins not changing auras"?
Its like 90% of paladins in random LFG are of this breed and there everyone on my home server to!
We're about to pull onyxia, we have 2 pallys in the group, one holy and one ret.
They both have retirbution aura up (Still not sure why the holy pally had it up).
We ask for a fire resistance aura, no response from either pally except them moving uneasily toward each other.
We ask again, the ret says: "Why should I change mine?"
The other ret replys: "I'm the healer I'm a little bit more important than a dps so you change".
The tank gets pissed off, says something about cba to deal with noob pugs and hearths.
I ask the holy pala SPECIFICALLY to change to fire resistance aura, seeing as the ret's retri aura will have higher dmg and give a +3% dmg boost to the raid.
Suddenly, the ret starts backing up the holy pally, saying he needs it to play and it will help the holy pala heal better.
I explain to him how the auras work (as in they dont stack) what they do (retri aura + healing wtf?) and what he has actually talented into.
He doesn't quite understand, but he takes my word for it and tell the other pally to switch, which he does.
We all waited inside Ony's lair for another tank, oh goody, they found another paladin.
The paladin gets summoned inside from Org by a warlock.
We buff up, I check buffs and... Wtf...
We have 3 paladins and the only aura active on the raid is crusader aura...
-_-
me Jan 2nd 2010 7:54PM
[quote]I ask the holy pala SPECIFICALLY to change to fire resistance aura, seeing as the ret's retri aura will have higher dmg and give a +3% dmg boost to the raid.[/quote]
That isn't even true, any aura from Retribution now give sthe +3% dmg boost to the raid. Retribution aura is once again a second class aura, imo, and should only be turned to after all the other auras have been filled.
nephythys Dec 22nd 2009 8:18AM
Ever since the release of WotLK i have run into those same problems when pugging ... not just since the cross-server system. To many players have absolutely no idea what threat/CC/kill order/class abilities are it seems. Ive run with palys that give my rogue wisdom - I dont even HAVE mana ... or no buff at all. One somehow managed to not even give us an aura(im assuming its because he had just changed specs because i dont know how else you could manage that). Rogues who think ToT is a waste of time(this i blame on the fact that they were born and raised with it like hunters and their MD - tho still no excuse not to know your abilities) and yes hunters who have no clue about MD(which is much better now ... that the mechanic is like ToT) or FD. and a big one is the DPS classes all trying to out DPS each other regardless of threat and the second they see a mob - be damned if the tank has even so much as waved at it -- and yes i have noticed the last one is even more prevalent since the cross server system like people are trying to prove that "we DPS harder over here on our server"
Jay Dec 22nd 2009 8:47AM
The Rogue is a rather hard class to play well. It takes great skill. When I see a good rogue in PvP or a dungeon I can clearly see a player who has a real commitment to skill and playing the game well.
Many players though, especially with the easier and less painful formation of groups, may not know that Rogues (as well as Druids in bear form, Death Knights and the like) don't need mana... so why not just ask them for another buff and at the same time politely tell them why? Say that "When you come over a rogue in the future they prefer ... because ... "
Please don't "l2buff newb" though, that's ignorant.
Generally I find genuine education to be more helpful than bitching about how that newb in normal mode UP didn't know this or that.
In the long term think of it this way... in that battle ground or Dungeon or Raid 2 months down the track when you meet that person again... they will be better for the wisdom you were able to give. They now have smartbuff and they now know what to apply to every class.
In the short term think that for the rest of that run the person who gives you the buff will be making you stronger rather than you suffering in silence or worse, getting punished for your rudeness.
Do yourself a favour... treat people with respect rather than putting them down. Not just during the run but afterwards in forums and on WoW.com when you feel you need to highlight their lack of skill by calling them out (when you are just highlighting how poor of a group player you were not to tell them nicely)
Muse Dec 22nd 2009 9:21AM
The lead paladin in my raid loves using Pallypower to set up wis for rogues, under the somewhat misguided notion that the pally on wis should be wasting as many reagents as the pally on kings, just to make it fair. (or as a not-particularly-veiled hint to the rogues to utilise their brains and stay alive)
Sometimes we forget to reset after raid. Happens.
Brad Dec 22nd 2009 10:08AM
I've experienced a similar thing on my mage. I was in a 5 man before patch 3.3 and the pally healer buffed me with might. Really? Sure we do have attack power (probably something like 50) but that doesn't mean that we use might. However if a pally buffs me with wisdom and there's no other pallies, I will request for them to change it to kings.
Oznak Dec 22nd 2009 12:09PM
Appropriate or not, while leveling my pally through the dungeon finder I've had hunters explicitly turn down kings or might and request wisdom. Not just one, but several. Even up to level 50 dungeons, which is where I am now, they apparently don't understand buffs. Or, they do, and just have mana regen problems? Having never played a hunter, I wouldn't know, but it seems odd that they wouldn't take the same buffs as endgame.
Banthis Dec 22nd 2009 1:15PM
@Oznak and others about the hunter wanting Wisdom...
I admit, I was one of those for a while. However, for me it was because lower level and fresh 80 gear has very little Int on it, putting me OOM very quickly. Kings is best, but if you're having to change out to Viper every 20 to 30 sec while the tank chain pulls everything, it gets hard for you to keep up and contribute to the group. To paraphrase an article from last night, do you want the hunter doing 1500 on one fight and 750 on the next, or a consistent 1200? (making up low-gear numbers...)
Better gear means more appropriate buffs and leaving some of that stigma behind. :)
lethian Dec 22nd 2009 1:59PM
^ this
Mopo Dec 22nd 2009 1:54PM
@Oznak
You get Aspect of the Viper at level 20, so there is no reason why you need BoW. It has been years since I have been that low of level, but with Viper active mana is almost never an issue. A good Hunter will switch between aspects during down time and even during long fights. It only takes a few seconds to get sufficient mana while having Viper up and little loss in DPS.
Basically, there are a lot of bad Hunters out there and hopefully they will reroll DK soon.
Eddy Dec 22nd 2009 2:40PM
At 70, when there were enough paladins (as in, two paladins or more, which there often were), I used to request Wisdom. It kept me from having to aspect dance and I could focus more on mobility and DPS without worrying about resource management. I was learning raiding on a hunter and I found hat on fights when there was a lot to do- add kiting or a lot of mobility it was actually useful for me.
DeathPaladin Dec 22nd 2009 2:49PM
Speaking of not knowing what CC is, I recently ran Heroic Halls of Reflection on my Paladin with a Bear Druid who almost seemed offended that I was using Repentance on casters. Seriously, with only a couple exceptions they would Feral Charge a mob a couple seconds after I CC them.
We did manage to clear Falric and Marwyn, but during the Lich King gauntlet this same Druid seemed almost insistent on tanking the mobs just outside Arthas' Aura of Frozen Death. Which meant the casters were often standing inside the aura. Which meant only one dps (it was myself, a Warrior, and a Mage) could actually attack them without being quickly killed.
Somehow we managed to make it to the third wave or so before we wiped, at which point the druid said "lol this dps sucks". The healer rebuts by posting a Recount of the skeleton general in the hallway, where the lowest non-healer dps was about 3.4k (which, admittedly, was me in my Heroic Blues + a few Icecrown 5-man pieces). The tank claims that they can hit 8k without even trying (I'm guessing they forgot that this wasn't a mostly stationary fight with full 25-man raid buffs), told us that we all sucked again, and dropped group.
Unfortunately the group disbanded soon after that, so we never finished. Didn't come out entirely empty-handed though, since the Harpoon dropped and no one else wanted it, so I have a nice weapon to tide me over until I can get the Tyrannical Beheader or Battered Hilt.
Sqtsquish Dec 22nd 2009 3:08PM
What peeves me is when people get all up in arms when I get aggro on my hunter even with MD and glyphed FD- as the way things are even if I wait a second or 2 a OVERLY geared hunter has trouble NOT pulling off tanks even if everyone is doing their job right. Secondly I've given up telling lock to un-phase their imps so people can buff them- I just don't think many of them get the concept
Bebofire Dec 22nd 2009 5:42PM
Believe it or not, I actually had to request a BoW over Might on the Deathbringer Saurfang encounter in ICC10. This is really important because as a hunter, I'm continuously kiting the beast adds, so if I need to viper at all during the fight it's basically a wipe. (If you don't know already, they heal the boss whenever they hit a raid member, and they hit really hard). Having to viper makes it so that I can't kill the adds before they get to me, so I've found Blessing of Wisdom to be fairly essential in that fight alone. Not everyone who asks for it is a huntard.