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12-22-2009 @ 5:08PM
"Sylvanas doesn't just want the Lich King and the Scourge dead. She wants every living thing to die as well, and in case you've forgotten, the Horde counts as living"Where did you get that from? Once Arthas is down, the humans would want to get Lordearon's lands back; if Sylvanas chooses to leave the horde, she could hardly resist against the whole alliance.
12-22-2009 @ 5:13PM
Protip: Humans are living things, too! They'll also be dead.
12-22-2009 @ 5:18PM
as I understand it, she was indeed involved in the making of the special kill-all-plague but was having second thoughts about actually using it, and seeing as blizz has put her sister into the game standing at her place beside her hubby rhonin wasting time doing absolutely nothing, I'm thinking that blizz may have something planned to justify sylvannas dropping the whole 'I'm gonna kill you all' attitude, and that it will most likely involve her sister.
It's actually said all over the place, but for some reason a lot of players seem to not notice or purposely ignore it. This article, http://www.wow.com/2009/04/26/varian-wrynn-is-right/, written right on wow.com references a ton of quests in-game which makes this clear. It's also stated plain as day in the new Arthas novel. Also, here is the official description of the Forsaken as stated by Blizzard on the main WoW page: "Situated deep beneath the cursed Tirisfal Glades, the labyrinthine Undercity is a sprawling bastion of evil. Within its shadowy confines, Sylvanas' royal apothecaries scramble to develop a devastating new plague - one which will not only eradicate their hated Scourge rivals, but the rest of humanity as well. To further their dark aims, the Forsaken have entered into an alliance of convenience with the primitive, brutish races of the Horde. Holding no real loyalty for their newfound comrades, the Forsaken have duped them into fighting against their common enemy - the Lich King. Only time will tell how these disciples of doom will fare in their mission of vengeance. "There's probably a lot more evidence out there, but that's just the stuff I can think of off the top of my head.
12-22-2009 @ 5:26PM
Roll an undead and listen to the starting movie.I love Sylvanas, but if i have to pick between staying alive or undead booty call, it's gonna be... tough -.-;
12-22-2009 @ 6:43PM
@jealouspirate I'd like to point out that many (if not all) of those quests are horde only. The alliance's only exposure to these events are what happens at the Wrathgate and what we are told when Jaina visit's Thrall's chamber. Until I saw that link I had no idea Sylvannas was anything but a victim.Was the zombie plague during the Wrath launch event a test launch of RAS' plague, or did the RAS just use it as starter for their own strain?
12-22-2009 @ 7:38PM
My fav race is an undead, and I have to force myself to play the others for variety sometimes cuz I stick to them so much, at first I was like "Whats with all the forsaken hate?" But then I quickly realized that they're right. Once Arthas is gone, what will happen then? Because the game plan appears to be kill everyone else.While I would LOVE some crazy thing that would split the forsaken into some 3rd playable faction, I'm absolutely sure that Blizzard is just gonna keep it Horde and Alliance. While I wonder if they are just gonna lore break it and go into the next Expansion without mentioning why she's going on, I doubt it as they've gotten real good at quests and explanations. But somehow someway the undead will stay and continue through cataclysm. Either that or half of them will split off into their own faction.Something intriguing about the forsaken is that they are one of the only races that their numbers will not increase. As far as I know, the forsaken are not raising undead back, so once an undead dies, their numbers decrease by one. After 9 years since War3 TFT you gotta think their numbers are dwindling lol.
12-22-2009 @ 8:30PM
Not increasing? While you're correct that they aren't raising undead again (Darion reserves that skill) there are certainly enough dead bodies laying around Azeroth for materials for more undead. I know originally they were raised by the legion to be subservient to arthas, but sylvanaas has obviously found a way to raise dead bodies as new forsaken, otherwise how could we roll them? I'm betting the RAS and varimathas came up with it.
12-22-2009 @ 8:42PM
I actually was seeing the Forsaken secede from the Horde eventually; actually pondering a Burning Legion faction in some far-removed expansion with Nathrezim/Satyr/Forsaken and the like, united by the "kill EVERYTHING!" philosophy. There would be far less wetdreams over that Windrunner broad from the Hordies if they'd actually bother to read some Light-damned flavor text. You know, you don't have to look very far, it's ON BLIZZARD'S FRIGGIN' SITE. -_- But far too many people have an allergy to reading. The comics alone (which far too few people bother to read, that's one of the main reasons for all the pissing and moaning against Varian) contain a wealth of insight into several of the game's important events; that's not even skirting the novels, I got the Arthas one for Christmas and it's amazing ho much light it sheds on the entire fiasco. There's a stocking stuffer for ya, WARCRAFT LITERATURE! You're actually ~reading~ something.
12-22-2009 @ 9:45PM
"It's actually said all over the place, but for some reason a lot of players seem to not notice or purposely ignore it." More fanatic Horde players like to ignore it, yeah. They want to believe their faction leaders are all noble, so details like this about Sylvanas get swept under the rug.
12-22-2009 @ 10:05PM
I for one don't understand why people are acting like this is a bad thing! I have been slaving away, helping Sylvanas with her evil plans, and I would be sorely disappointed if she did not use all that hard work for something in the end. I look forward to the day that I join the ranks of the vile forsaken!But seriously, I don't think that we need to worry about Blizz bringing her plans to fruition until they decide to get rid of the Forsaken as a race completely. The forsaken are far more loyal to her than they'll ever be to the rest of the Horde. After all, she's all about creating more forsaken, right?
12-22-2009 @ 11:06PM
Can't you see it? it's another expansion! Rise of the Banshee Queen :D
12-22-2009 @ 11:57PM
Not to beat the undead horse... AGAIN! I'm so glad someone is pointing out what so many Sylvanas worshipers are ignoring. She is E.V.I.L! If you play a druid or a shaman in the horde you should be even MORE horrified by her obviously evil intentions for the world.Stop going "OMG BEWBS" and realize she stands for everything that Arthas stands for. For reason's I'll never understand, some people are drawn to that kind of thing. /shrugXD
12-23-2009 @ 12:00AM
This is from WoWWiki (http://www.wowwiki.com/Sylvanas_Windrunner):"In interview with Chris Metzen, Metzen revealed that Sylvanas was ordered to move south into Gilneas because the Horde wanted a port in northern Lordaeron. Metzen mentioned that Sylvanas was "in the dog house" with the Horde after the Wrathgate events and has to move when the leadership of the Horde orders her to do so. "
12-23-2009 @ 1:43AM
Personally I prefer to think of the new plague's anti-alllivingthings component more defensive in nature than offensive.Let's face facts, Sylvanas is no fool. She knows good and well that at least half of the living beings (read: most Alliance and ALL Scarlet Crusaders) in Azeroth consider the Forsaken to be inhuman monsters that need to be destroyed utterly. No matter what happens, she and her Forsaken are going to be facing attacks from living humans trying to retake Lordaeron or overzealous armies of Scarlet Crusaders trying to eradicate them as just another part of the Scourge.The plague is designed to kill Scourge AND the living. The Scourge as part of their quest of vengeance, and the living as defense against the inevitable assault against them.
12-23-2009 @ 2:49AM
She is a very twisted woman who seems sickened by the thought of her fellow Hordies... a fact I finnaly came to believe once I heard her dialogue in the Pit of Saron... when she orders her small army to attack... they die... "Pathetic Weaklings" is what she calls her fallen "bretheren"and again, at the end of the Pit of Saron, she is relieved when the "commander" i guess you can call him and another small army of horde, is destroyed by Sindragosa. "I thought he'd never shut up" is what the bitch says about this orcs' death! Needless to say, shes... mean =( and she makes me a sad panda.
12-23-2009 @ 3:32AM
Some quotes from Forsaken NPC vendors:"Beware... our enemies abound.""Beware the living.""What would you ask of death?"Some quotes from Sylvanas:"Who are we but slaves to this torment?""We are the Forsaken. We will slaughter anyone who stands in our way."Recall that after Sylvanas broke free from ol' Lichy, she organized the other free Undead and fought back. She pushed back his entire army, and cleaned all the Scourge out of Lordaeron, something the combined might of all the Alliance was unable to do for quite some time. She was a Ranger-General of Silvermoon in life, the supreme commander of some of the most powerful warriors at the time. She also served as a General for Lichy, purged Lordaeron of all the Humans living in it, created the Dark Rangers, and generally took a whole lot of names and kicked a whole lot of posterior.After freeing the Forsaken and clobbering the Scourge, the Forsaken wanted to reunite with the Alliance, after all, they were the fallen relatives and ancestors of Lordaeron Humans... but the Alliance didn't exactly like the whole idea of Undead, and tried to kill them. So, the Undead had no place with the Lich King, and their own kin turned their backs on them, so they seek revenge against... everyone.Some of the Forsaken quests are pretty ruthless. As a Warlock, the quest to gain your Succubus has you track down the kindest Human you can find, a noble fellow that cares for the refugees living at the walls of Gilneas, slaughter him in cold blood, tear out his heart, and use his pure heart to lure a Succubus demon to this plane, so you can enslave it. There is another quest that has you collect samples of water from Azshara, which Forsaken scientists use to whip up a new super-Plague, which you use on a captured Tauren (one of your allies), and watch it die horribly, much to the joy of the Forsaken alchemists. A series of early quests in the Tarren Mill/Southshore area has you slaughter Hillsbrad Farmers, Peasants and collect 40 of their skulls before the Forsaken in town will even give you the time of day. Another quest has you sneak into Hillsbrad, feed a farmer's dog a special concoction, changing it into a massive wolf that goes on to eat the farmer, much to the delight of the Forsaken apothecary who gave you the quest.There is no doubt about it, the Forsaken are not anyone's friend; the best you can do with them is 'not an enemy at the moment'.
12-23-2009 @ 4:23AM
See, the thing is, all evidence points to Sylvanas only wanting to wipe out humanity, possibly even only humans of Lordaeron. She specifically wants vengeance against the people whose society gave rise to Arthas. She certainly doesn't want to melt the blood elves in Blight and hasn't expressed any particular antipathy for anyone who isn't a human. I'm sure she wouldn't mind if the rest of the Alliance, particularly those wretched kaldorei, die as well, but that's not saying much.It's extremist elements within the Forsaken who want all the living to die. Fortunately, they played their hand and are now mostly destroyed. So what we're actually left with now is largely a population of Forsaken who resent the extremist faction that ruined what little they had and desperately want to prove themselves to get the rest of the Horde off their backs. We may just see a little bit of reform in their society, I reckon.
12-23-2009 @ 9:35AM
I like the Horde. All my preferred toons are Horde (and yes, I'm ashamed to admit, my main and my main alt are belfs...but the pally will be growing fur and horns once Cata hits), but I did the quests out of Hillsbrad, and the ones that take you to get the slime samples and such out of Azshara and Un'Goro while playing my troll hunter, and was nauseated. I haven't done them on any of my other toons. yes, it's kept my rep down but I am personally ok with that. I will never get Loremaster on any of my toons because of it, but I personally feel better about it.
12-23-2009 @ 11:12AM
Well in light of the conversation between Uther/Jaina and Uther/Sylvanis in the ICC conversations I find myself wondering if Sylvanis is meant to become the next Lich King.I could be wrong, given how it could be one of the heroes killed at Wrathgate, or one of those trapped in Frostmourne, but that's what I wondered the first time I saw it.
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