"Grow a pair and stay in the friggin' dungeon."

I'm sorry but I'm not going to run HOS, again, for the 30th time, since I started using LFG.

I get it at least twice a day, and I refuse to even let the others zone in before I leave.

I'd possibly go and skip the first two bosses, but then people complain that they want the badges. Which is understandable, but HOS feels so long and boring I'd rather just be done with it (Old Kingdom anyone?)

Again, sorry if you have to wait for another tank, but the 'random' just doesn't seem to be very random when you get the same place the first time and a few more times each day.

@trapt

The reason that HoS and Occ keep popping up so much is actually directly due to the fact that people drop group after zoning in. Then when the rest of the group tries to find a replacement, someone queued for a random gets put in.

It's pretty funny, really. They ONLY reason places like OK, HoS, and Oculus come up more than the others is because people refuse to do them. If everyone just took 20mins to run the dungeon, they wouldn't come up any more frequently than the others.

Random is exactly that: random. While running an alt healer, I've gotten SM Graveyard all but twice (levelling solely through PuGs from 30-33, thats alot of GY runs). Never once did I drop when I saw that dreaded hall layout on my mini-map. Tedious, maybe, but it's what I signed up for so I took it. The mage who'd love to get the Bloodrage Mantle and sat in the queue for 20 minutes doesn't care how many times I've run it, he just needs a healer. Sure, the loot was useless to my shaman and the quality of tanks at that level tends to be shakey at best, but I knew the deal after my first run. And I still signed up for the random queue so I took what I got.
If you don't want to run certain dungeons, then select which ones you want to run and stop wasting my time by picking random and dropping.

"Ya pays yer money, ya takes yer chances"

People dropping from Oculus I can understand, but what's bad about HoS? *scratches head*

I went from 29-31 on my Resto Druid running GY over and over again. I thought it was great. In and Out in like 10 minutes as long as no one wanders away from the group. The loot isn't great but the blue reward can be (although I do get tired of gloves with +attack).

@jealouspirate

Actually, different dungeons have been assigned different weights, based on your gear. I get assigned to a piping fresh new Oculus every single damn day, even when I just do a single random dungeon for my frost badges. Halls of Stone is apparently the tier right below it, because I'm running into people who are getting 40 percent Halls of Stone, 40 percent Oculus and 20 percent everything else.

Until Blizzard redoes things so that it's more random in the new year, which I'm confident they will, since even their staff can't like seeing the same dungeons every single day, you can't assume that people are getting dungeons they hate because other people have dropped them. I've only gotten into one Oculus that way.

The best thing I can stress to any tank these days is to grow a pair and realize EVERYONE in group relies on you. I know this might be a hard thing to realize but this is DEFINITELY NOT a good thing for you. No need for power trips- that will get you kicked. The biggest thing tanks don't seem to realize these days is that when the group fails these days 90% of the time it is the tanks fault. It wasn't because the dps couldn't do dps, it usually isn't because the healer couldn't heal- it is most often because you got too big for your britches and pulled too big or you don't know how to tank at all. As someone with a 3 second queue time YOU have the responsibility to make the group succeed REGARDLESS of the other people in your group and only in EXTREME circumstances does that mean removing someone else from group. If your healer has weak heals then it is your responsibility to pop your cds when needed and to pull SMALLER packs. If your dps can't dps or dpses the wrong target then it is your job to be the big kahuna and DEAL with it. You soak up damage for your role- then do like your role suggests and be a stoic and shut up. If there is a problem then you are Silent Bob and let your healer speak for you.

@Sqtsquish: Hahah, there is no damned way I'd do that. I'm extremely tolerant of bad DPS or even bad healers. But I have a couple of very simple rules in my groups. 1) We move at my (and the healer's) pace. You want to go faster, too bad; enjoy your repair bill. You want to go slower, then just catch up when you've refilled mana or whatever. 2) If you pull it, you tank it. I put out enough threat to keep all but the most crit-happy DPS safe, and if they're not using FD or Iceblock on the rare occasions they do pull off me, that's not my problem.

Yes, the fault can ultimately happen at any point in the tank-heal-dps chain. But if it's someone else repeatedly causing a problem? there's no way in hell I'm not going to speak up. Just because I signed up to take damage from obs, it doesn't mean I signed up to take crap from other players.

I've never gotten Occ in a Random, but I've done Azjo and HoL three times in one day.

Hmm, seems like everyone has a responsibility. The dps need to stop making life hard on the tanks by dpsing whatever the hell they feel like. The healers need to heal. The tanks need to know the fights, explain the fights, and tank the fights. The dps and heals also need to know the fights.

But just because I am wearing plate doesn't mean I am the king of all fuck. I've had all 3 roles, and when I dps I just fucking dread it. People shit on you left and right. Not doing enough dps? kick. Accidentally pull one mob? Kick. Sure there is sucking, but when you get into a group and are at the mercy of the egotistical healer and tank, and your only recourse to leave and wait in the queue 15-20 min, life sucks. This is why I mostly tank and heal, but I have fun dps toons, and I love playing them. So do us all a favor, and get off your throne.

Agree with Justin. I feel like I could've written this article. I also heal and tank for 5-mans, and feel EXACTLY the same as you Allison. People asking for DPS charts after every pull almost tempt me to vote-kick them. If they care so much, they need to install the add-on themselves and stop being lazy.

@bittercupojoe

I completely agree. Too many time am i tanking something when all i see is gogogo. Even let a hunter die because his misdirect was on cool down and he pulled the group ahead of us. I play both Hunter and DK tank that were well geared prior to 3.3 coming out so I am used to both roles. I believe its the job of the DPS to shut up and target off the tank and just dps what your suppose to. Yes your DPS my suffer a lil bit if you have to actually target the tanks target but your not pulling aggro and wiping the group and mobs still die.

I am also fine with AOE just make sure you knock it off right before you pull that 4th or 5th target I am trying to keep of your rear.

@Sqtsquish: apprantly you do not play a tank or even understand the concepts of how they work. Like the article said Grow a Pair. Tanking is fun but its not for the wimps that would rather QQ about a Tank that didn't hold aggro cause he was dealing with 6-7 mobs that one of the DPS pulled

Perhaps you misunderstood what I was saying- or perhaps you didn't care. Yes I am a tank- I am a warrior tank besides. As a tank you are expected to be a leader- you can't be too confrontational or NO ONE LIKES YOU and you can certainly be too unconfrontational but it is your job to see a group through- to make sure that it DOES finish. So what the boomkin accidentally pulled another group with its huge aoe stuff- well you can do 1 of 2 things deal with it or 2 you can make everyone get a repair bill because your ego is bigger then your self-confidence. Being a tank is about knowing what you can do and about getting a feel about what the others in your group can do and planning for the worst case scenario often. See that other group of mobs on the other side of the boss in HoL before the boss? Grab em, get off your lazy butt and anticipate the crap your group may put you through and prepare accordingly. If something crazy happens then be ready to deal with it. Sure there are idiots and jerks out there and I'm not saying that you can't deal with them. When I said be Silent Bob its because people listened to him WHEN he did speak and he got stuff done. People respect others when they can take the crap they put out and are ready for more. I'm tired of people having no respect for tanks because they can't plan ahead for one little whoops here and there. These are 5 mans not ICC 25 hard modes against Arthas with a group of 17 people- treat them accordingly. Someone is being dumb repeatedly- let them die, they complain? Ignore them. There is an old saying: "don't guard your integrity, let it guard you". Be the best tank out there and even if people call you out for something that may or may not have happened then people won't get upset at you. People are stupid- be smart enough to compensate, that is what being a leader is all about.

um, I joined a H-PoS group today. group was at Ick, already downed Garfrost. I say ok, one boss down, but I can still get 2 badges and maybe a lucky drop on the trinket. I get there, still wearing my dps gear, switch my gear, sit down to drink up so I can top off my hp's. All of a sudden I see a target icon above me and a mob come screaming towards me while the hunter is sitting next to me shooting stuff. He had MD'd onto me while I was wearing dps gear and drinking...so (being a night elf) I shadowmelded. Hunter died, I picked up the mob, we killed it, and I told the hunter if he ever did that again I would vote kick him on the spot. Healer tells me to calm down and pull the boss already (still not at 100% hp) so I wished them all good luck in finding a tank who will put up with their BS, and i left the group.....90% of failed groups are the tanks fault huh? Tanks should grow a pair and accept their role huh? Bite me. I don't care what class you play, what role you fulfill, who you are in RL, that kind of crap is totally unwarranted.

@knolls- There is a fine line between dumb people and bad players: dumb people need help and instruction, bad players are jerks and grouping with jerks is always nasty. First rule don't be a jerk. Second, don't put up with people being jerks to others in your party. Third, and most important- if you think you can't deal with someone that the group thinks is doing fine, that doesn't give you the right to be a jerk. 2 wrongs don't make a right, they never have, and never will.

@ Ringo

I would love to get some more HoS. Luckily I miss out on Occ just cuz of the headaches of idiots that don't want to do it even though it's so easy these days. I mostly end up with the new ICC 5 mans.

Well I jinxed myself, while typing this I got into Occ randomly, lol.

Sqtsquish, Thank you for that wonderful serving of tripe. I'm a holy Paladin, but I recently pulled out the tank set I've been holding back, shined it up, and tanked a few heroics and some ICC trash farming expenditions. Thank God I didn't read your diatribe first, if I'd done that and believed you, I NEVER would have taken up the tank role.

Thank you for propagating an attitude that is contributing to the tank shortage.

There will be more tanks to go around when EVERYONE starts to realize it is EACH AND EVERY person's OWN responsibility to make a group succeed. If tanks and healers generally have a larger portion of the burden, it's everyone else's job to do what they can to ease it (read: watch aggro, listen, not stand in crap, learn from mistakes, etc.)

Hank, you've never had Oculus on random? Seedcake, you can understand people dropping on it? Two days ago I was spamming randoms for badges. I got Oculus not once, not twice, not thrice, but four times. Three of them in a row. I got Old Kingdom twice and HoL twice. I got FoS once and ToC once, after an entire group stuck around after one of the HoS runs. It's painful to get into Oculus and see the entire group drop instantly. Fortunately for me, being left alone seems to remove the 15 minute debuff.

I didn't mind having to do Oculus the three times because each time I did it, people got the Under-20-minutes-achievement-thing, and I just happen to love Oculus, especially when people let me red-drake it up (hey, how often does a mage get to tank?). If people can learn it, it's really a breeze now, and the vehicle mechanics *can* be fun. With the nerfs and all, I highly recommend sticking around for what I find can be one of the quickest Northrend Heroics, so long as:
1) Your red-drake-rider knows what they're doing.
2) At least one of your yellow-drake riders knows what they're doing.

Heck, I've even gotten the Amber Void Achievement with the LFD tool, and Emerald Void. It was fun and not once have I ever had a single wipe in that dungeon. People are just bitter and prejudiced about it these days.

That said, I suck at Amber drakes and refuse to take them. Ever.