Officers' Quarters: How to persuade your guild leader
by Scott Andrews 
Dec 28th 2009 at 11:00AM
Every so often I write a post purely for my own convenience, and this is one of them. I get a lot of e-mails week to week all asking the same question: How can I try to change my guild leader's mind? The topics can vary greatly, from loot systems to promotions to guild bank rules to the level of roleplaying the guild enforces.
I want to point all those people in one direction. Now that this column is live, I'll be able to send them here, as a starting point, and offer to answer any follow-up questions they might have.
So without further ado, here is, from my point of view as a guild leader, the best way to persuade yours.
1. Spend time thinking about why he or she instituted the rule or the policy.
Try to put yourself in your guild leader's place and imagine what motivated him or her to do things that way. Is it a matter of convenience or fairness? Is it meant to quell drama? You'll have a much better chance to get your guild leader's attention if you can begin your argument with a statement showing that you understand why they made the original decision. The first thing your GL is going to assume is that you don't understand why, so if you can get past that point, you'll be in better shape to persuade!
2. Spend time thinking about the consequences of changing the policy.
Notice that you have taken no action yet. This is intentional. Many players approach me with knee-jerk reactions to a guild situation they don't like. They try to talk me out of it before even thinking too deeply about why that policy is in place or what would happen if it were changed.
Guild leaders have usually spent some time thinking about these things themselves. Often, they've debated the issue with their officers or their membership in the past. They probably believe that, even if the rule or policy isn't ideal, it's at least the lesser of two evils.
Before you approach your GL, you need to consider some possible scenarios. Even small changes can have big consequences. For example, say your guild has a rule that you can't swear in guild chat. You think it's unnecessary censorship and want the rule changed. But what if, after the rule is abolished, your main tank's mom happens to catch someone swearing a blue streak in guild chat as she walks by his monitor. She refuses to let him play the game on the family computer anymore, and now you've got no tank for the raid tonight.
3. Ask around.
Talk to other members and see how they feel about the issue. Present your solution to them and gauge their reaction. They might think of a way to improve your suggested change before you present it to your GL. Or they might give you reasons not to bring it up. Don't treat this survey as a campaign, and don't try to rally support behind your cause just yet. You don't want to stir up drama before you talk to the GL. They'll be less willing to hear you out if you're causing drama.
4. Prepare yourself for disappointment.
Guild leaders are a stubborn bunch. Odds are, the GL is going to hear you out and then say, "No, I like it the way it is. And here's why . . ." You might have well-reasoned arguments and a strong case. But remember -- most guilds aren't a democratic government. Your GL is the one who makes the rules and who also has to enforce them. It's a double whammy when a GL isn't comfortable with a rule change. It might come up once in a while for you, but your GL has to live with it every single day. Someday, he or she may even have to defend the rule against someone like you . . .
5. Approach your guild leader -- in private.
It's never a good idea to approach a GL like a frenzied mob with torches and pitchforks. A quiet, private conversation is best, especially if the points you make may be construed as critical of the guild or its leadership. Make sure your GL isn't in the middle of something else, so you can be sure you have his or her full attention.
Present your case in a rational, organized way. Appeal to your GL's sense of justice, or diplomacy, or even laziness. You know him or her better than I do! Use that knowledge to connect with them on a personal level as you make your argument.
6. Be honest.
If the change will benefit you personally, be upfront about that. Don't shy away from it. Almost assuredly, your GL has already figured out exactly how you might benefit from the change, so glossing over it just makes you look deceptive.
7. Offer to help.
If the change will result in more work for the officers, offer to lend a hand. That will send the message that you're serious about the change. This might be the most important piece of advice in this whole column. One of my biggest pet peeves as a guild leader is when someone who does absolutely nothing to help the guild in any way makes a suggestion that will result in way more work for the officers without offering to lift a finger to help us.
8. Don't resort to cheap tactics.
When people don't like my answer to their suggestions or requests, some resort to outrageous behavior in a desperate, final attempt to get their way. I've seen it all:
- begging
- condescension
- insults or personal attacks
- veiled or open threats to quit the guild
- blackmail to reveal sensitive information or perceived "crimes"
- sly implications that they're aware of some vast underground conspiracy against the leadership and that accepting their suggestion is the only way to stop it from happening
- sly implications that they're leading said movement
9. Thank the guild leader for hearing you out and tell him or her how you will proceed.
If the GL wasn't persuaded, but you don't plan to let the issue slide that easily, share that intention with him or her. Tell your GL that you plan to reach out to some of the other officers or members to gather support for the change. That way, when you stir things up, your GL can't say that there was no warning. And he or she can't say you didn't give him or her the opportunity to make the change before you started causing trouble.
This is the point where you'll have to rally people to your cause, if you want to take it that far. If enough members support you, your GL may see that it's in the best interest of the guild to change the rule/policy. But even then, he or she may not give in.
While you attempt to do so, don't cause bad feelings that hinder guild activities. Don't embark on a relentless personal crusade. Harping on the same issue over and over again will only annoy people.
10. If all else fails, let it go or leave the guild respectfully.
Don't drag the argument out over weeks or months. You'll have to make a choice: live with it, or leave. if you opt to leave, inform the guild leader why you made that choice. Be polite, but be truthful, too. Explaining the real cause may help him or her to see the light eventually.
To all you members out there, I wish you luck persuading your guild leaders! To all you guild leaders out there, what works on you?
/salute
Send Scott your guild-related questions, conundrums, ideas, and suggestions at scott@wow.com. You may find your question the subject of next week's Officers' Quarters!Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership)
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Garviel Dec 28th 2009 11:04AM
Use the force ;)
Nazgûl Dec 28th 2009 12:40PM
You want people to use force? Sounds illegal.
Garviel Dec 28th 2009 12:45PM
Trolling or never seen Star Wars?
Noah Dec 28th 2009 12:54PM
... or joking.
Ozzard Dec 28th 2009 1:21PM
These aren't the rules you're looking for. Move along!
dwarfish Dec 28th 2009 11:14AM
Great article. I would add "follow through" to the steps though. A number of times I have instituted a change recommended by some one or group who have just left me holding the bag after they have received the benefit they want out of it. If you ever want to have a suggestion taken seriously, don't just offer to help but if the topic comes up for discussion sit quietly in the back. Speak up why you thought it was a good idea in the first place.
dwarfish Dec 28th 2009 11:19AM
&%^^$%^!!! F'ing edit button. "dont just sit quietly in the back" and "taken seriously again" wtb personal proof reader.
dwarfish Dec 28th 2009 11:15AM
"taken seriously again" - along with all the others, WTB edit button
Snark Dec 28th 2009 11:36AM
Too many Chiefs; not enough Indians.
Erogroth Dec 28th 2009 11:37AM
Please tell me that photo is photoshopped. Either way lol.
Aeltyra Dec 28th 2009 11:41AM
Also keep in mind some guild leaders often have an officer council to advise them. If multiple officers agree you might be able to make a case, if multiple disagree you probably won't get a lot done unless the guild leader agrees with you as well.
Ashleigh Dec 28th 2009 11:47AM
I like everything but the advise in step 9. The fact that you suggest that if they don't get the answer that they like from the guild leader, they should go to the officers for support to get the answer they want is discomforting.
In my guild, if I told someone no, and they went to a lower ranking officer (I'm second to the guild leader) and tried to storm up support, they would be viewed as causing drama, or being a cry baby, or more then likely, not a good fit for the guild. If someone had talked to the GL and then came to me and said "The GL said this" and they had done steps 1-8 they'd be pretty SOL, and me siding with them and favoring them (Granted, I have the most level headed guild leader on the planet) that'd just be me undermining what my GL had said.
Officers should be a team. Like parents, they should have varying ideas and tactics, but the same set of rules. The idea of "If you don't get something you want from mommy, go to Daddy, or Auntie or Uncle." Is basically what you implied people should do.
Ratskinmahoney Dec 28th 2009 12:34PM
/agree on the whole.
However, if I were to bring an idea to my GL and say 'this is my idea, I think it's good. You disagree. I'd like to see what other people think of the idea, though, and maybe discuss it again if a lot of them seem to like it.' I'd be a bit peeved if he said 'no, end of'.
It's the difference between inciting mutiny and simply trying to get some perspective beyond the opinions of the two people having the conversation which, I guess, depends a lot on the temperament of everyone in the guild. If you're lucky enough to be in a guild of fairly levelheaded, mature players who value the guild itself above the fine print of its rules, then I don't think it's a problem.
Darias.Perenolde Dec 28th 2009 1:27PM
Ditto here too. Honestly, I'd prefer people do the 1-8, and then go to an officer or two and see if they thought it was a good idea. Then they would come to me and/or the member would would come to me after getting officer feedback (whether they liked the feedback or not). Work up the chain, don't climb up and down it.
lgnorman420 Dec 28th 2009 12:28PM
As an officer I'm more persuasive when bringing up an issue to my GM than the other guild members. The folks in the classes I'm in charge of come to me with questions and comments (and some others just because we get along better). This chain of command works we for us as the GM is less inundated by constant chatter. The ideas brought to my attention are usually handled with a bit more sensitivity than my GM would give them. If the ideas are strong I bring them to and officer discussion. Many times I leave out the the names of the people who brought up the issue to protect the innocent, especially in sensitive situations. In other cases however people bring up issues directly to the GM, but to be honest he's not very patient about them. Maybe if they read this article they'd have better luck.
Ginjack Dec 28th 2009 12:36PM
Great article - some really excellent advice for how to approach a GL rationally and reasonably with suggestions.
It's too bad that many guild members don't take the time to take #1 or #2 into account, and instead jump straight to #8. Guild Leadership, or holding an active officer role, isn't an easy task and most suggestions brought to the table don't have a lot of thinking about their consequences to the entire guild put into them.
Daraia Dec 28th 2009 1:17PM
#2 is such a under valued one.
Individuals really need to think not only of the short term but potential LONG TERM consequences of policy and direction changes. What may seem like a GREAT idea now in three months could easily find you in direct opposition of a policy you spear headed.
Darias.Perenolde Dec 28th 2009 1:36PM
Having gone through an icky, icky guild split last year where more #8 stuff went on than I care to relive at this moment I can say this is a great article. All the content of #2 is more important than anything else almost, and every time someone has ragequit over an issue (whether by themselves or taking others with them), those considerations are usually what's being missed.
The #10 items are the crux though. Our guild always strives to be a tight community, and it's hard to lose anyone from our Family. It's heart-wrenching to think over either time splinters have happened in our guild, but agreeing to disagree and part company is much better than mudslinging.
Gimmlette Dec 28th 2009 1:44PM
Excellent article, but #9 is a very dicey and slippery point. Even if you tell the GL that you disagree and that you're going to solicit additional opinions, you look like a trouble-maker. You have come to me. I have listened to you. You've done all your homework, maybe gauged guild sentiment for your change. You've asked. I've said, "No. I think the rule/policy works for these reasons". Now you're telling me that you don't like my decision and you're taking it to the guild.
Your normally spot on advice, Scott, sinks here. I have listened to a lot of proposals from wacky to wonderful in 2 years as a GL. Some people have done all these steps. Some people have come to me after a raid went awry and issued some knee-jerk suggestions. I have listened to all of them. I have considered all of them. A few have been very good and we've made changes.
Most suggestions come from people who don't know the inner workings of the guild. When you explain why you can't or won't change something, most people accept that or they leave. The few who did not accept the "No" and tried to get people on their side, ultimately left in anger or caused drama when asking others for how they feel. And that's exactly what will happen if guild members don't accept the "No" and openly tell their GL they are going to approach membership.
Now, there is a caveat here. You should not blindly accept a guild leader on a power trip. You know, as a member, who they are. If the GL comes back to your suggestion with "Because I said so", you've got more issues than whether you should be allowed to swear in raid chat. But I feel that if you've come to me on a change with reasoned points, I've given you my undivided time to discuss the change, I think about it (because I never make a change on hearing it for the first time. I do think about any proposed changes.) and I decide it's not what's in the guild's best interest at this time and I explain to you why, going around my decision to solicit the ideas of the officers and members brands you as a malcontent. You will stir up far more drama than warranted and probably get yourself kicked or told to leave.
I would recommend #9 be dropped from the list and replaced with "Listen to what your GL says about your change. If they say it's not something they want to do and you don't understand why, ask. Just as he or she is listening to you, you have to listen to them. There may be reasons they simply cannot divulge for why a rule or policy is in place. They may feel that, even with your help, the change is unworkable. Maybe it's not the right time.
Set the change aside for a month or two. Play the game. If, for you, the current rule or policy still doesn't work, ask someone else how they feel about it. Maybe it doesn't bother the majority of the guild and or they like the guild so much, they don't really care if it's ever changed and have adapted to it. You must be very, very careful in soliciting other opinions because you can be seen as being a malcontent and kicked. You may think you're being discreet or above board and just soliciting opinions. Chances are your questioning will get back to the GL and he or she will not see someone gathering opinions. Rather, they will see someone who wants to change their guild. This never goes well."
One thing I will add is that if someone comes to me with an idea for a change in a rule or policy and they have done some homework on it, they are given more of my time because this shows me they care about the guild. What they are proposing may not be workable, but they have at least been thinking about ways to make the guild experience better. That is a valuable guild member.
Kira Dec 28th 2009 1:53PM
In my case there actually was an underground conspiracy and when we tried for 6 months to get the guild lead to do something about this one officer, and they still refused and had resorted to banning people who suggested they should, 3/4 of the guild up and left and founded our own.