Breakfast Topic: Not This Again
by Matthew Rossi 
Dec 30th 2009 at 8:00AM
As much as I love the dungeon finder, it's not perfect. One of the ways it's most imperfect (or least perfect if you prefer) is in the way I keep getting the same instance, five, six, or even more times in a day. It's possible that if I'm capable of running seven heroics a day I'm running too many heroics in the first place, of course. Still, as a guy with two tanks, I often feel compelled to answer the call of a DPS guildmate looking for a few runs.
But man oh man, am I tired of Halls of Stone. Ridiculously, completely, utterly sick of the place. When I see the HoS loading screen pop up (and by now I'm as familiar with that screen as I am with my own apartment) I actually feel my whole body shudder with faint disgust and slight loathing. Ah man, not this place again! And always, someone's going to insist we do every single boss instead of skipping Maiden and Krystallus so I'll be in here even longer. Since I try to only drop groups when I find it absolutely necessary as part of the whole 'I'm tanking so I'm responsible' ideal I have, I find being stuck in HoS over and over again to be my own personal purgatory.
So how about you? Have an instance you dread seeing yet again? Or have you been mercifully spared Violet Hold threepeating in one day? (Seriously, VH, followed by VH, followed by Nexus, followed by VH? That was just cruel, dungeon finder.) Is this just the price I pay for getting nearly instant runs? I suppose it's not so bad in that case. (Oh, who am I kidding, go away Halls of Stone, I don't want to talk to you no more.)
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Odds and ends, Breakfast Topics, Instances, Wrath of the Lich King
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 14)
Naraxis Dec 30th 2009 8:06AM
you got it right man, the instance that keeps coming up that makes me want to go shoot myself in my back yard is old kingdom, thats possibly the instance i hate the most and yet it comes up at least 5 times out of 7 instances. and usually the other 2 are halls of stone, so i feel your pain
Aldarion Dec 30th 2009 8:28AM
I think these rather uncomfortable situations can be summed in this sentence:
'Murphy hates you.'
Thundrcrackr Dec 30th 2009 8:33AM
The article didn't really mention this, but the whole reason this is a problem is because PEOPLE KEEP DROPPING GROUP when these instances come up. Its not a problem with the random generator.
There is probably at least a 50/50 chance that whenever you get oc, cos, ok, hos, and maybe one of the others, its because someone else got it and bailed and you were next in line, and not because you randomly happened to get that dungeon.
I've mentioned this before, Blizz needs to up the penalty for people dropping group. Raise it to an hour or even dock an emblem or something. Its getting ridiculous. People should NOT be queing for ANY dungeon if they're NOT willing to run ANY dungeon. They should be forced to stick with whichever one they're dealt, or start queing for specific dungeons instead.
Marie Dec 30th 2009 8:52AM
You do realize you can SPECIFY right??
So then click the option for "Specific heroic" and uncheck the box for the one you don't want??
If you've run that many heroics, you don't need the bonus 2 triumphs. Just run the frost run as random, and choose the rest. You still get in just as quick. I've only ever had the same one twice in a day I think. I'm a resto druid so I get grouped within 10 seconds. instantly if I have a tank friend grouped with me. Takes 15 minutes or more when I play my rogue. So, there's only so much stuff you can do with triumph emblems anyway, so after a while you just have a ridiculous surplus. I just wish there was something I could do with the surplus of Badges of justice, heroism, valor, etc... heck, I'd settle for trading 5 heroism for a triumph, or something...
Anyway, just use the specific button. It's still cross realm, and still just as fast. Might take 10 seconds longer.
loop_not_defined Dec 30th 2009 9:19AM
"You do realize you can SPECIFY right??"
Many people run dungeons for the Random Dungeon reward. The first one is 2x Emblems of Frost, and each following dungeon is 2x Emblems of Triumph (on top of the ones dropped by bosses). Specifying dungeons defeats the whole point.
Fnord Dec 30th 2009 9:29AM
In some way, it feels as if the universe is taking sweet revenge for the solid year-plus I spent trying and failing to get a group for Old Kingdom and finally get the heroic achievement. Come to think of it, it took me over six months to get a HoS group as well (my server is deeply PUG-impaired). Thanks, universe!
WoWie Zowie Dec 30th 2009 9:32AM
i get to feeling that way about nexus, UK, OK, and gundrak. but i'm wondering if i truly do get these more often than others or if its just that i'd rather do one of the new dungeons over and over instead.
come to think of it, there are 15 dungeons in northrend, of which 3 require slightly higher stats. its not as though i'm getting a hundred different dungeons to choose from.
if you've been grinding heroics as hard as i have for the past few weeks, my bet is that it just SEEMS like you get the same one over and over; because you're so darn familiar with them by now.
i say go ahead and keep a tally on notepad or something of which dungeons you've been placed in over a weekend. lets just set the test number to 30.
TheSipe Dec 30th 2009 9:38AM
The problems with upiing the penalty times I feel would force me to stay in more groups of asshats just because of the wait. As a tank the threat of me dropping often saves groups from careless DPS. When the undergeared rogue starts calling people names and insisting that we do some Drake achievment in Occulus despite 2 or 3 of the group saying no, you can handle the DPS your supposed to be rocking and we don't wanna wipe for a gimmick in a PUG, I just say hey quit it or I'm out. He figures his 10 min wait for a group versus my no waiting means I will probbaly will drop so he behaves. About twice a week I've been in that situation and it's saved me numerous times.
WB Dec 30th 2009 9:39AM
There's definitely something not so random about the random dungeon finder.
EVERY DAY since launch my first random dungeon has been AN, no joke! I don't mind 'cause it's fast - I'm just shocked at the luck.
My DK alt is about 50/50 UK or AN for the first run but I only do a random with him once in a while.
Thundrcrackr Dec 30th 2009 9:43AM
@loop_not_defined
The "whole point" you and many others are failing to realize, is that the "Random Dungeon reward" is just that, a reward for doing a RANDOM dungeon. Not a "drop 3 randoms until you finally get one you like" award. The award is there for a reason. You're expected to take the bad with the good, not just cherry pick the good. THAT defeats the whole point.
Hoggersbud Dec 30th 2009 9:54AM
>So then click the option for "Specific heroic" and uncheck the box for the one you don't want??<
Besides the lack of random rewards, the problem is that eventually the dungeons you want will be locked, leaving you to queue for the ones you don't want...so it's a self-defeating strategy.
Most people would rather take a 15-minute break than that particular bother.
And no, I don't see more punishments as being effective, as that just increases the incentive not to queue at all, because even if you have a legit reason to leave, you end up screwed.
Eternauta Dec 30th 2009 10:16AM
Completely agree with Thundercrackr.
Barinthos Dec 30th 2009 10:30AM
What should be added is a pop-up window with a message, much the same as if someone was summoning you, with the option to Accept of Decline. So it would be
"You are being teleported to "
Accept -- Decline
And if you decline, you get the 15 minute lockout timer. 15 minutes is not much of a hassle especially if you've run the declined dungeon 3,4,5 times in a day.
Rifter Dec 30th 2009 11:09AM
@Hoggersbud
I want to point out that this IS a game... a game to have fun in. Do you honestly think that an argument, about a pass time, where you need to take the BAD with the good holds water? We pay $15/month to have fun. Not be stuck in instances that we define as UNFUN.
dzsulihime Dec 30th 2009 11:11AM
That's it. I don't do many randoms a day, I usually do it with my healer main and my mage alt. And 1 of the two is ALWAYS Old Kingdom. And what's worse: the tank ALWAYS wants to skip 1 or 2 groups after the Sanlayn boss at the stairs, and someone ALWAYS pulls them, and we whipe. Come on, even my boyfriend tried this and we whiped, even though i told him it's gonna happen. Man, i hate that place...
Hoggersbud Dec 30th 2009 11:53AM
>@Hoggersbud
I want to point out that this IS a game... a game to have fun in. Do you honestly think that an argument, about a pass time, where you need to take the BAD with the good holds water? We pay $15/month to have fun. Not be stuck in instances that we define as UNFUN.<
Not sure why you're pointing this out to me, as it really doesn't seem to me that you understood what I said, but instead seem to think I believe folks should be stuck in unfun instances, when that's not the case at all.
I was simply pointing out the limits of the specific dungeon queue and stating that I'd not support greater punishments as they'd just convince people not to queue at all, because the mere 15 minute break sometimes? Not a big deal. A big deal would just lead folks not to queue since they're would be serious costs involved.
Sorry if I was unclear in some way, perhaps you might direct your statements at somebody else.
Big Shoe Dec 30th 2009 12:28PM
It is obvious that the extra badge rewards are intended for running a random dungeon, and that by signing up for one you are tacitly agreeing to do just that, taking the bad with the good. But the point that is being made (and missed) here is the dungeon selection is NOT truly random. At the very least, it seems skewed toward picking the same three or four dungeons repeatedly. With over a dozen instances to choose from, I should not be getting Old Kingdom 75% of the time. It may well be that as players drop group the moment they see Old Kingdom, the Oculus, and so on, the next players in the queue are being shuffled into these unpopular instances more often than they should be, in order to shorten wait times. Either way, the griping here is not about running random dungeons; it is about whether the system that Blizzard uses to choose them is flawed, and not random at all.
Almoderate Dec 30th 2009 12:55PM
@Barinthos
Just to add to what you said, which is a wonderful idea...
1. Include the name of the dungeon you are teleporting to in the dungeon invite and allow the person to THEN accept or decline.
2. Declining will enforce the 15 minute penalty.
3. Accepting will have the same effect as it currently does, with the rest of the group being returned to the front of the queue until a full group accepts. No penalty is given for accepting the invite or leaving the queue before an invite goes out.
The reason I included #3 is because I've been forced to take the 15 minute ding when most of my group left the instance and the wait was getting to be ridiculous. I could have been happily doing other things besides staring into that first trash pull while I waited. Forcing a 15 minute penalty on someone who drops is fair, but forcing it on the rest of the group isn't. This seems like a viable and easily implemented solution.
Helm Dec 30th 2009 1:17PM
Almoderate, if you're stuck in a dungeon waiting for more, right click the LFG button, select "Teleport out of Dungeon," and wait comfortably wherever you were before you entered the dungeon. It won't trigger the 15 minute penalty and you'll still be queued for the instance.
Thundrcrackr Dec 30th 2009 1:37PM
@Big Shoe
I didn't miss your point, i addressed it. I said it isn't a problem with Blizzard's random generator being flawed, its a problem with people ahead of you dropping group. If you're getting OK 75% of the time, its because people ahead of you keep dropping from it which bumps you up into their place, not because the random generator is broken.
Which brings us back to my other point, that people shouldn't be allowed to drop group so easily with such little penalty. By doing so, they are both circumventing the point of the random dungeon system AND screwing over everyone else in the group and the queue.
And its been suggested that we be given the option to decline the dungeon before actually joining it. Again, this still defeats the purpose of the RANDOM dungeon tool and screws everyone else in the queue by causing them to get that particular dungeon far more often than they should.
The only real solution would be if Blizzard, at the request of the players, reduced the frequency with which the random generator selected the more unpopular dungeons, but i'm guessing they won't do that as their reason for adding the random deal in the first place was probably to get more people running the lesser played dungeons. That's why the reward is so good. People just need to remember why they are being given that reward and if they don't like it, they shouldn't queue for it.