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12-30-2009 @ 6:53PM
I still don't entirely understand how the Night Elves went from hating everybody not Night elves, to liking the humans. I realize they don't like the Orcs that much (Grom killed Cenarius after all) but they put aside thier differences long enough to kill Achrimonde, and they spent enough time with the Orcs to realize that they aren't all like that. Not to mention you think the connection they have with the Tauren would have at the very least made them NOT fight against the Horde.Logically speaking I think the Night Elves seem like the type who would have stayed out of the factions. After all, they really just wanted to do is rebuild.IDK I know why they joined from a game standpoint and somewhat from a lore standpoint, but I think realistically it probably woulda made more sense for them to stay out of the war.Even with Grom's actions, you'd think the Night elves would have had sense to realize that the Orcs aren't all evil, and coulda made some sort of treaty with them.Perhaps Tyrande isn't as peaceful as she seems though.
12-30-2009 @ 7:06PM
I'd guess the majority of their tension comes from the Warsong lumber operations that continue in Ashenvale. The humans haven't done anything remotely as invasive to the Night Elves and for the most part have left them alone as they wish. Add into the fact that it was indeed the Orcs that upset the Night Elves balance of nature with Grom and his actions, and its not hard to see why they harbor such a grudge. And I wouldn't say the Night Elves blame all the horde from Grom's actions; the Cenarion Circle in Moonglade with its pack between the Tauren and Elves prove they haven't closed their doors to those who ally with the Horde - as long as they share the same values.
12-30-2009 @ 7:12PM
I'd guess the majority of their tension comes from the developers wanting to make Night Elves a playable race and deciding that the Alliance would be the best fit. The Night Elves and Forsaken are sort of the original "lorelol", along with Tauren druids and playable warlocks.
12-30-2009 @ 8:08PM
Well I understand that they harbor ill-will towards the Warsong clan, but considering Grom's actions took place before they throw aside thier differences to take down Achrimonde, I just think it would make more sense for them to stay neutral. I guess since the Horde still continue towards chopping down Warsong that would be a reason, but I'd like Blizz too officially describe Tyrande's decision. If the Night Elves decided to stay out of the conflict alltogether, I think the Orcs might not have forested Warsong. They woulda got thier lumber elsewhere, which I guess isn't much better in the Night elves Eyes, but I think that's something they could elaborate on. Perhaps in Malfurions book it describes some of the ill-will towards the Horde. He looks pretty pissed so I guess maybe the horde had something to do with that.
12-30-2009 @ 8:34PM
The Warsong Clan's position in Horde politics remains confusing at best, even now that Garrosh is up and being grumpy. Originally they were just Hellscream's orcs, fighting the night elves in Ashenvale because they want lumber. Now, they are all over the place, being Warsong guards and such. It's somewhat unclear, but I think originally, after Grom's death and the World Tree gets blown, the Warsong orcs just get ignored and go back to getting lumber. Thrall never seems to make any sign of caring, but if he had in the beginning, they could have probably saved themselves from getting the night elves into the Alliance.The tauren's standpoint with the Night Elves stil remains extremely unclear as to why they are both such buddies since the start, as their respective pasts are relatively mysterious. The tauren have probably existed since the Great Sundering and they must have interacted with the night elves or something. I assume the appearance of Light/An'she-following Tauren in Cataclysm might explain it more.
12-30-2009 @ 9:00PM
Where would Orgrimmar get their lumber, if not from Ashenvale? Mulgore consists of grassy plains, and Durotar, Barrens, Stonetalon Mountain, and Thousand Needles are all rather barren. Azshara has some wood, but nowhere near Ashenvale's resources. Felwood's infested with demons. Dustwallow Marsh's trees don't look particularly suitable for construction, and going further away than the zones mentioned would be much too far to go for lumber when you have a whole forest right on your doorstep.
12-30-2009 @ 9:12PM
@staffan:Stonetalon actually has quite a few trees in it, as evidenced by the Venture Co. logging operations there.Now, if the orcs were interested in peaceful relations with the night elves, they'd shove the Venture Co out and log there. Maybe get some dr00ds in for reforestation, sustainable logging, all the kind of things that give hippies a tear in their eye, etc.But they're not. Perhaps the Horde likes goblins, despite the Venture Co. being a bunch of murderous amoral punks. Perhaps the Horde likes TAKING wood.
12-30-2009 @ 9:34PM
"Where would Orgrimmar get their lumber, if not from Ashenvale?"How about Silverpine or Stranglethorn, especially since they could use the zeppelins to carry it in large quantities? Such forward thinking probably goes against their Manifest Destiny conceit that Kalimdor somehow belongs to them.It's their own fault for building a city in the first desolate wasteland they came across, anyway.
12-30-2009 @ 9:58PM
Despite the druidic ties between night elves and tauren currently, they are not very "buddy buddy". During the sundering, the night elves didn't even want to utilize tauren in the war against the demons and they regarded them as brutish beasts incapable of grasping the concept of civilized society.That aside, I agree with your point that the Night Elves allying with the humans doesn't seem to have a strong motivator. They have always been a solitary race and they do not like to depend on other races at all. I'm sure the sundering knocked a lot of that arrogance out of them, but even after those events they've been withdrawn and prefer to keep to themselves.I'd love to see a more in depth look at the Night Elves motivation to be a part of the Alliance. The other races that make it up I can understand, even if just from a unifying religious standpoint (via the Light). Will be interesting to see the lore behind the Worgen, though. After all, when Forsaken regained their free will they tried to return to their homes and families and were chased away, which made them bitter. Yet the Worgen are monsters and affected by tainted magic and generally seem like something unacceptable that would be chased off, as well... get accepted with open arms? Really can't wait for Cata, if only for an answer to this! lol
12-31-2009 @ 9:31AM
I forgot entirely about the Great Sundering and the Night Elves treatment of the Tauren at that point of time.Guess it still gives them a little more ground.I'm assuming that Malfurion's book will have at the least a tiny bit of info of the happenings between killing Achrimonde and the start of WoW, maybe that's where Blizzard will finally decide to make the connection. Perhaps the Night Elves asked the Warsong clan to stop, and they didn't, which is why Warsong Gulch is so heavily contested, maybe the Alliance promised to help them defend Warsong in exchange for them joining the Alliance, or something deeper. Though I think it's probably a combination of Warsong refusing to stop cutting down the forest, and the Alliance's willingness to help them defend it.Though I'm starting to wonder where the Horde is going to get thier lumber at beyond Cataclysm. It seems Ashenvale is empty, so they'll have to start moving on to some other place. Maybe Stonetalon will have grown back during the cataclysm, or even better the new Desolace is full of trees that reproduce quickly due to highly enriched soil. Or something like that.
12-31-2009 @ 2:06PM
I'd just like to go out of my way to point out that as far as the illegal Warsong deforestation operations in Ashenvale are concerned: Thrall and Varian (back when they were on speaking terms) were actually about to come down to an accord whereby Varian took into accountability the Horde's need for lumber, so they were supposed to agree to a trade deal where the Alliance provided lumber to the Horde and the Horde provided copper and pelts to the Alliance....but shit came up and Varian was urgently called away before the accord could be signed. -_-
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