Patch 5.4 patch notes
Virtual Realms feature revealed
The Proving Grounds are coming
The latest patch 5.4 newsBreakfast Topic: We're doing what now?
by Matthew Rossi 
Dec 31st 2009 at 8:00AM
But I always had a terrible time understanding why I was running Maraudon. Okay, there's some centaurs, and they're... bad? I guess? And then there's one of Cenarius' two sons buried here, and he and an earth elemental named Princess Theadras had sex which, okay, I guess that's bad? And we're going to kill her for having centaur babies with him, and... there's a pretty decent set of plate legs in there? The instance itself isn't poorly designed, mind you, and there's a nice lore element when you bring Zaetar's seed to his brother Remulos in Moonglade, but in terms of why your characters run Maraudon at all, well, it's really hard to come up with anything like a compelling reason. Unless you're a tauren, I guess. Tauren don't need a reason to kill a bunch of centaurs. They just need to be told where they are.
This is always my biggest problem with Zangarmarsh and Coilfang: why are the naga stealing all the water? Just to have it? How does this benefit Vashj or Illidan? I don't really understand that part of the plan. I'm sure someone, somewhere explains it, but I guess I missed that part. (Dread Lord Ziebart hastens to mention that she does have a throwaway line basically saying 'Dudes need water, so we're gonna have all the water and then y'all will have to do what we say' but it conveniently ignores places like Nagrand and Terrokar.)
So now I turn to you, Breakfast Topic readers. What instance or quest most made you say "huh, why is this even happening" and why?
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Odds and ends, Breakfast Topics, Instances, The Burning Crusade, Wrath of the Lich King
Reader Comments (Page 3 of 8)
crschmidt Dec 31st 2009 9:06AM
In addition to what other people have said about the engine, I want to point out that although I can appreciate the desire for pretty, it's not what I play WoW for -- and if they were to upgrade to a higher end engine (like the one in Aion, for example), I would have to stop playing.
I was able to play WoW reasonably capably (outside 25-man raiding) on an Intel GMA 950 chipset. I've upgraded since (for other reasons), but I'm still below the minimum requirements for something like Aion, despite having a brand new computer. (I did demo Aion once; it wasn't just a 'requirements on the box' thing, it really was unplayable.)
I'm pretty sure that Blizzard is pretty aware of the computers that their 11 million subscribers (or insert any number of millions you want) are using, and is making sure the game continues to be playable for the majority of them. Gradual upgrades to poly counts are the way they're approaching it, and I think it's working well.
Ctmcstomperq Dec 31st 2009 9:07AM
My desire for a new engine is based largely on the very successful update that EVE Online performed about a year ago, which, AFAIK, did not take "years".
And no, I am not one of these folks that thinks a new engine solves all the problems. IMO, a newer engine is more standard in it's design(IE it supports all the various formats of data the art might take) would make use of newer methods of handling the data in memory and could quite possibly improve the performance on lower end machines.
Also, as was said before, the engine is the paper the story is written on, simply changing to a new one doesn't fix itself necessarily. But it does open up pathways that are simply unavailable now.
Drakkenfyre Dec 31st 2009 9:43AM
An engine overhaul and complete replacement are two different things. And forgive me, but a game that consists of mostly empty space and asteroids isn't exactly the hardest thing to upgrade. You can upgrade the individual models and achieve a good effect.
Sony upgraded the original EverQuest, but they didn't replace the engine. Neither did they do so with EVE Online.
Jafari Dec 31st 2009 10:16AM
@Brian
"Honestly I have an easier time with the suspension of disbelief when the content is a little less detailed, personally."
I agree. I actually like the cartoonishness of Warcraft as compared to more "realistic" games like Warhammer. I credit the uncanny valley.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley
My favorite quote from the wikipedia page:
". . . a robot stuck inside the uncanny valley is no longer being judged by the standards of a robot doing a passable job at pretending to be human, but is instead being judged by the standards of a human doing a terrible job at acting like a normal person. "
Tridus Dec 31st 2009 10:18AM
The game actually does need an engine overhaul. Performance these days is really bad in a lot of areas (Onyxia with a lot of whelps up, for example, most of my guild can't do the Many Whelps achievement because it makes the game totally unplayable).
They could do that without scrapping it and starting over, though.
Kathop Dec 31st 2009 8:30AM
Simple. For pony!
That answers all. kthanxbai.
On a more serious note, I never bother why I have to go there, there's usually some interesting lore in all instances (unless I'm missing some) and I like to discover it. Exactly why I go there?... blegh.
themightysven Dec 31st 2009 8:39AM
why do vashj and illidan need all the water?
moisturizer.
Kylenne Dec 31st 2009 8:47AM
Honestly, there's very few instances in the game where the lore is not present in the quests. Obsidian Sanctum is one of the rare exceptions, and something I hope does not set a precedent for future instances in Cataclysm and beyond. I really don't want to have to be forced to read Richard Sue Hack, (or even someone who can actually write) in order to know why I'm doing things in the game. To me that's just bad storytelling.
My problem with Coilfang is exactly as you stated--not only is the goal only vaguely stated, but you get all this neat buildup in Zangarmarsh quests that just sort of fizzles out. And what's worse, *this* was apparently the best they could come up with for one of the more memorable characters from lore. I've QQ'd endlessly on here about how badly Blizzard dropped the ball on Illidan/Kael/Vashj in BC, but Vashj was the absolute worst. That plot didn't even make sense. Neither did Nagrand, really, in light of Outland supposedly being a dead world, but whatever. I've been on record for some time that I pray Blizz eventually does a mulligan for BC.
Alexander Dec 31st 2009 8:58AM
There inst a ton of lore book wise except about what the twilight dragon flight is and why its bad.
Basicly it boils down to some stuff with Deathwing. So I kinda expect a continuation of this story in Cataclysm, actually i think blizz might have said something like that at some point.
http://www.wowwiki.com/Twilight_dragonflight for the short of it. Dont click the link if you plan on reading the book.
macster Dec 31st 2009 9:01AM
Agreed. There's definitely some real disconnects between the game and the story, where a player seems to be required to read the comics/books/follow Metzen's Twitter in order to find out what's going on.
Naxxramas is the one that grind my gears. I may be wrong, but there seems to be very little in game to actually tell you there's a raid inside that pyramid flying above Wintergarde, other than a few NPCs chatting vaguely. I think if some quests were added, which are completed as areas are completed/bosses are downed (the way Karazhan did), it'd draw players into the story a bit more. The fact that players are just supposed to "know" something is there is just lazy design
LilBanshee Dec 31st 2009 9:26AM
@macster
The whole quest hub in wintergarde keep starting with http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=12235 is all about the fortress being under attack from Naxxramas.
The subplot with Thel'zan's phylactery explained how Thel'zan (formerly Father Inigo Montoy) had betrayed the alliance by returning Kel'Thuzad's phylactery to the Lich King and enabling Naxxramas to be restored.
The commanders on the battlefield around Naxxramas not only 'chatting vaguely' about Naxxramas but they have holographic visual aids and give elaborate presentations discussing the bosses in great detail.
If you were blindsided by Naxxramas, you must simply be blind.
macster Dec 31st 2009 9:44AM
I'm aware of the quest chain - now tell me how this level 72 chain is supposed to get players into a level 80 raid, given the two events will be separated by weeks? It's not good storytelling.
zappo Dec 31st 2009 9:50AM
"There's definitely some real disconnects between the game and the story, where a player seems to be required to read the comics/books/follow Metzen's Twitter in order to find out what's going on."
Yeah, it's sort of funny because I never really thought much about "seeing all the content" until it was brought up with Wrath. But it's true that I really have no idea about how BC was resolved. Demons are all over so obviously that's pretty bad, and there's blood elves doing something bad. Then there's the shattered sun offensive taking this island with both blood elves and demons (double bad?), and a bunch of talk about Muru. I simply do not have the time to be that hardcore, so really most of what I actually know about BC came from reading wowwiki. Which is sort of sad that I play a game but have to read a webpage to actually know what happens. And before the UR BAD posts, I'm an alright player; but actually seeing the whole story really shouldn't be left to the 1% elite people. They need content too, but at least let the rest of us see the freaking STORY.
LilBanshee Dec 31st 2009 11:03AM
@macster
I see what you mean. You do sort of wander off away from Naxx at like lev 74 with no lingering threads such as a red quest saying to come back later and kill KT. Usually you do all the quests in an area and afterward you typically have a few dungeon/raid quests, some of which might still be red so you need to level up a bit and come back later to finish them. It is odd that they didn't do anything like that for Naxx. They told the story very well in my opinion they just didn't include any quests to bring you back at 80 which was a bit of an oversight.
Zanathos Dec 31st 2009 4:41PM
As they got away from attunement quests this expansion, most of the lore for instances now exists in leveling quests. I don't think that's a bad thing, if you care about the reasons we're visiting whatever instance, you can read the quest text either while leveling, or check it out on wowhead, or pay attention when you level an alt. I think this is a pretty good system, actually. If you care to read the quests, they're there, but not mandatory. You're going to have a large number of quests in the leveling zones anyway. They might as well do double duty and provide the backstory for dungeons and raids. There's really not a reason there needs to be a long quest chain at level cap to explain why we're going to whatever instance.
Ringo Flinthammer Dec 31st 2009 5:02PM
I'm not sure how you could have been active during the end of TBC and not understood what was going on at Quel'Danas. In addition to all the the quests (which were released in stages, so it's not like you had a big lore bomb to wade through all at once), NPCs in Shattrath wouldn't shut up about it in /say and Magister's Terrace actually includes a quest that has you click on an orb to look at the Sunwell and what's happening there.
And that leaves aside the cool trailer Blizzard put up on their Web site and the big write-up there.
Short of Chris Metzen coming over to your house, I'm not sure what more they could have reasonably done to communicate the storyline. And once you understand QD, you pretty much understand TBC as it worked out (rather than how it was originally planned): Kael'Thas wanted to save his people by switching them from the Sunwell to fel energies, but in the process, damned himself, almost damned his people (starting with the paladins, who are the Stormtroopers to his Hitler -- ooh, Godwin!) and ultimately attempted to surrender Azeroth to his new master, Sargeras.
Basically, any time elves start messing around with wellsprings of magical power, there's going to be demonic trouble.
Sargeras' defeat includes relighting the Sunwell and restoring the blood (and presumably high) elves to its energies. So the raiders who beat Sargeras ultimately save the entire high elf race. TBC thus is about the fall and rise of Quel'Thalas. In retrospect, the expansion was probably best-experienced by an elf-dominated Horde guild.
ghola Jan 2nd 2010 1:20PM
The Hyjal raid has this problem too. The other CoT instances are all against the Infinite dragonflight keeping the timeline safe. But they dont show up in Hyjal at all so it seems strange that we're even there helping out...
Raze Dec 31st 2009 11:58PM
The Hyjal was literally just for shits and giggles according to Blizzard, though it does invalidate Malfurion's cunning plan to blow up the World Tree to take down Archi since a bunch of snot nosed raiders manage to do it without the wisps.
Hal Dec 31st 2009 8:54AM
Gnomeregan. I mean, yes, the gnomes miss their home and want it back. But here's my summation of all the quests you get for that place:
"Hello there ! I need to ask you a favor. See, we turned our home into an unlivable mess, what with all the malfunctioning guard-bots, toxic vapors, and radioactive gasses that transform you into a disfigured monster with no capacity for reason. The thing is, I left something valuable behind. Think you could run down there and get it for me? I doubt the bad stuff I just mentioned should be a problem."
Clean up the place? Nope. Beat up the invaders? You wish. Retrieve techno-trinkets that they could easily recreate? You betcha!
Jari Dec 31st 2009 9:27AM
I guess you missed this quest.. http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=2929