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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsThe Dungeon Finder and gear disparity
by Eliah Hecht 
Jan 2nd 2010 at 2:00PM
There is some confusion as to whether/how the Dungeon Finder matches characters according to internal gear score. To the best of my knowledge, it actually attempt to create a discrepancy between characters' gear, so that you're likely to wind up with a few heavily geared members 'carrying' lesser-geared members. This is directly contrary to a claim I've seen circulating that the system attempts to match internal gear scores.
If the system doesn't attempt to create disparate groups, it should, and if it does, I'm glad it does. It may be disheartening to see someone in your group in full blues or maybe even a couple greens, instead of the now-familiar suit o' purples, but as some commenters pointed out in my post on Dungeon Finder bingo, we all started out in blues and greens at 80 (with the possible exception of some crafted gear and BoEs), and heroics were designed to be run with that gear. Where are the epics supposed to come from, for a pre-raid character?
Furthermore, a less-geared character might actually need some of the gear that drops in the ilvl 200 heroics (i.e. everything except CC, FoS, PoS, and HoR), which is a nice change of pace from the usual shardfest. It may take you a few extra minutes to farm your emblems, but PuGs are about more than just you: they're about a group of people coming together to help each other out, and enjoy a dungeon.
Filed under: Items, Analysis / Opinion, Instances
Reader Comments (Page 11 of 11)
Hyacinthe Jan 3rd 2010 5:08AM
My 2 80's are healers and are pretty decently geared, one from raiding 25's and one from 10's. I'm a good healer, too. I'll carry low dps (unless they're afk/following, obviously) but I will NOT heal a tank who is not defense capped or not using tanking abilities like, y'know, RIGHTEOUS FURY.
People, do NOT sign up to tank heroics until you have defense capped gear. For heroics, that magic number is 536. While you're getting to that number, tank normal dungeons and run heroics as dps. I have explained this to every fail tank I've encountered. If you cannot be bothered to know basic things about your tanking abilities, though, don't waste my time.
(I bear tank occasionally, too, so I know that as long as a bear is specced properly, this doesn't apply. We come pre-capped, because bears are awesome.)
Fletcher Jan 3rd 2010 5:58AM
On the "Bears specced properly" front ... I just had a successful H Gundrak pug on my rogue where the beartank had less health than me. Turned out he'd hit 80 recently - only one purple, and that from ToC norm ... and he was a cat druid. For the love of Elune, people! I can forgive not being highly geared for the role you pick, everyone starts somewhere ... but not being *specced* for the role? That's just being an annoying retard.
Whyisretgimped Jan 3rd 2010 8:09AM
I agree with Hyacinthe. Healing people who's gear sucks and who can't spec properly is miserable. Given that, as a healer, I can leave the group and find another one in less than a minute usually, why should I waste my time on your sorry level of play?
Given how ridiculously easy it is to have almost full epics the moment you turn 80 (see my other posts on this article), there's no excuse for showing up to a heroic in crappy gear. Tanking epics are very difficult to get before 80, that's true.
So like Hyacinthe said, run as DPS in the crazy easy to get epics and collect tank gear. Then tank...
Hyacinthe Jan 3rd 2010 3:08PM
Seriously, I don't care what kind of gear people have. All I care about is getting through the run and having as much fun as possible. I've had awesome groups, and it's because of the people behind the gear, not the gear level. I just don't care how much health a tank has or if they're decked out in epics, because it's heroics. I did heroics in blues. I can certainly keep a tank up in my 226-264 gear if s/he has skill awareness. (and by this, I certainly don't mean "is perfect at being a tank" because you have to learn about threat and add management somewhere)
Other than jackassery, the only thing I'll drop group over is the two things in my original post- the tank not being defense capped (536 for heroics, folks!) or not using things like frost presence/righteous fury.
And, druids, don't tank in cat spec. That's so disappointing.
Tommirritant Jan 3rd 2010 5:39AM
Finally someone saying what had to be said ages ago...
I really hate the attitude most players have nowadays, no you cant come with us because: and then the achievement/ gearscore crap. How is someone supposed to get a certain gearscore or achievement when noone even thinks about taking someone like that along for the ride...
I seriously think Blizzard should implement something so that the "noobs" get an equal chance as the "imbahardcorenolife" community.
Whyisretgimped Jan 3rd 2010 8:13AM
If your gear sucks at 80, it's because you can't play the game well and there's no other reason for it. Check my other posts for how stupid easy it is to get epics before you turn 80.
I don't expect people in heroics to have 245 gear. But given how ridiculously easy it is to collect a full set of 200+ level gear before you even get to 80, I will vote to kick someone who's got less than 200 level gear.
If you think that getting epics before 80 is hard or impossible, you should quit playing WoW now because your sorry understanding of the game is just going to hurt the playing experience of anyone you come in contact with.
Sargenus Jan 3rd 2010 5:09PM
@Whyisretgimped
Wow. What server are you on? And what's your character name? I'll be sure to not DPS in heroics with you.
And, judging by your name. Why am I not surprised your a LolRetadin?
Whyisretgimped Jan 3rd 2010 8:17AM
Dear WoW.com...
Please let me write you a detailed article that will teach players how to have their toons in full epics by the time they hit 80. I can break it down by class (I've already done it on a mage, two paladins, a shaman, two druids, and a warrior) and make it very detailed.
Give me an email address or something so I can send you guys the article and together we can help the WoW community not have to deal with people in crappy gear.
Blueman Jan 3rd 2010 9:13AM
I just wish people didn't treat every dungeon like HCotS. I like fast dungeons as much as anyone, but it can get demoralizing on my fresh 80 shadow priest when all I get is "more DPS priest" and I'm doing 1800 which is plenty for non-icecrown heroics.
People still leveling and using LFD need an attitude check as well. They expect all the dungeons to be chain pulling zerg fests and often ignore simple group mechanics.
Had some pally running ahead and dropping consecration when I was attempting to tank on my druid. When I asked him to not do that he basically said "I'll do as I please" I tried to vote kick him but nobody else would so I dropped group. Screw that pally and everyone like him.
sandfleaz Jan 3rd 2010 12:04PM
Politeness > gearscore
Ewok Jan 4th 2010 8:50AM
Yes. I've had some groups that were not the best, but everyone was polite. We had one H HoL with a new tank, and everyone in the group was extremely patient and polite and whole we wiped on the hallway (Poor tank!) we one shot all the bosses, the tank got some tanking tips and some gear and everyone was grateful.
Vidi Jan 3rd 2010 10:57AM
I disagree. The system should match lower geared players together so they run the instances as they were intended to be run.
We learn next to nothing about the instance or the capabilities of our class if we are being "carried" through instances. I learned so much more when I had to carefully spend the time CCing and dealing with actual strategies than now when every boss stratedgy has been boiled down to "burn the boss and heal through it"
In my opinion, we as players need that learning experience.
Bigmu Jan 3rd 2010 1:05PM
I had the one-in-a-million on Monday afternoon that had me running to the local newsagent to buy a Lotto ticket. My routine when I get home from work is to jump on my Alchemist to transmute an epic gem, then onto my Shaman DPS alt for the random heroic and then onto my Paladin main to heal or DPS, depending on my mood.
The run on my Shaman was awful! I'm still collecting badges to upgrade several items on her and the group was made up of elitist so-and-so's who bagged her out for being "sub-par" for heroics. I responded with, "And why do you think I'm doing heroics?", to which - for the first time - I was vote kicked on the second boss in Utgarde Keep.
Mumbling under my breath about where those jerks could jam their rather pointy T10 shoulders, I logged onto my Paladin main and selected DPS or Heal (knowing full well I'd be healing) and got an H UK group straight away. I thought there was something familiar about the group makeup and funnily enough, they were standing in front of the second boss waiting for myself and a DPS to reach them. I asked what happened to the last healer and DPS, to which the tank replied - and I quote, "healz didnt hav enuf manna n teh shammy wuz nubzorz".
My response of, "Thought the group looked familiar. That shammy was my alt.. Mwuhuhahahahaha!", was greeted with some of the most polite conversation and careful tanking I've ever seen in a PuG.
Proof that karma does exist - even in a game.
serf Jan 4th 2010 1:40AM
If you're a fresh 80 dps stumbling over encounters, dying on every boss fight, I'm not going to check you gearscore because I don't care what it is. I will drag your limp corpse across the finish line of my badge race and, if you want, I'll give you gear/spec/gem/enchant advice along the way.
If you're a tank or a healer, I'm still not going to check your gear but I do expect you to be able to handle yourself. If you're having trouble with the expected pace of runs these days, I sugest you queue as dps for the purple rain that is the new dungeons and need everything for your primary role that you can get your hands on. At least half of the time your healer or tank probably already has that awesome thing that just dropped.
Jimbo Jan 4th 2010 12:51PM
Wow, I'm surprised so many people are so generous about this. If everybody were like this in real life, we wouldn't have any poverty or disease as every person would sacrifice themselves for the greater good. But anyway....I'm all for helping people gear up. I've geared up a plethora of characters myself and have brought down the group a bit. But the problem I have here is that
Jimbo Jan 4th 2010 1:01PM
Odd that it got cut off, but basically:
People are idiots. I'd say less than 10% of the player base actually puts in the research to know their class/spec or into different fights in the game. Somebody with a 5k GS has spent a good amount of time researching the game, while those with a 3k GS likely have not. This game is a learning experience. I've had to learn how to tank/heal/etc in this game, just like everybody else. But I did it with friends that understood that I was learning. It's not fair to the group for somebody to not know the basics. I ran heroic VH last week and the tank didn't know to kite the ethereal and so we wiped. The problem is these people generally don't care; they'll never see anything more difficult than heroic HoR in the game and as such have no incentive to put the effort into bettering themselves as players.
Keep in mind: the raiders won't need to run heroics when they no longer need emblems of frost and then there won't be any uber geared people to drag the others along anymore. It will require skill from everybody in the group, which most likely will not exist.
Zara Jan 6th 2010 1:09AM
I have been running a lot of random HC's on my 80's and what troubles me most about those, is the "fast run" tendency - meaning having a bunch of superiorly overgeared bunch trash through the instance, kill the last boss, get the emblems, get out. Sometimes even say "Bb" before leaving.
Fine with me, if someone preferes running random HC's as if they all had to go pea badly, but its not fun or even close to being entertaining to do a run like that as a new player just starting running HC's. How will they ever learn to play in a group, if thats the way its run.
But well, i guess it cant be avoided ...
However, as i grew fast tired of the random HC's and the Urgent Pea Runs, i made a new character and decided to level in random instances as a healer. Wich has been a lot of fun so far, as i've met a bunch of people of all sorts.
Unfortunantly, im not the only one who's grown bored with the Random HC's ... so the Urgent Pea Runs have started to appear in the lower level instances too - leaving players that want to level with no chance of doing dungeon quests ( there's not time for that nonsense, gogogogogo - last boss - satchel!") and new players with no clue as to what a dungeon is all about.
Go do your farmruns with yourself and your friends with similar problems with incontinens, and leave the rest of in peace to get some fun and actually play the game.
/My english is horrid, i know.
megoodgal1 Jan 8th 2010 1:50PM
It has been refreshing reading some of these comments. I had been downright afraid to run in the random dungeons. I began with regular and have since moved to heroics but I'm new to WoW and a bit intimidated sometimes. I have had a mixed bag of luck with my dps according to Recount due in part to simple things sometimes... did the Pally put Kings over Might on my Rogue (might please), do I have a Dranei in the group... etc. Some of my gear is still blue, lvl 200, but still blue because I don't feel the leather love in these instances much.
I have had a mix of reactions as I quietly make my way through the heroics... just last night, the tank said "hmm, only 2 of you getting over 2K...grrreeeeaaaat" And I thought to myself 'we're not dying, the healer is keeping up fine, we're killing what we should, it's not taking forever...why the heartburn?" I was having fun, no one was complaining... I was one of those over 2K, and I felt bad for the guy who wasn't breaking that benchmark. He was in some blues and I would assume, putting up with the tanks crappy attitude because he was playing the game by running the heroics to build his gear up. Good for him!
Ah, well... as in life.... I was not born with a silver spoon in my mouth, nor a purple cloak on my back.