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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsThe Dungeon Finder and gear disparity
by Eliah Hecht 
Jan 2nd 2010 at 2:00PM
There is some confusion as to whether/how the Dungeon Finder matches characters according to internal gear score. To the best of my knowledge, it actually attempt to create a discrepancy between characters' gear, so that you're likely to wind up with a few heavily geared members 'carrying' lesser-geared members. This is directly contrary to a claim I've seen circulating that the system attempts to match internal gear scores.
If the system doesn't attempt to create disparate groups, it should, and if it does, I'm glad it does. It may be disheartening to see someone in your group in full blues or maybe even a couple greens, instead of the now-familiar suit o' purples, but as some commenters pointed out in my post on Dungeon Finder bingo, we all started out in blues and greens at 80 (with the possible exception of some crafted gear and BoEs), and heroics were designed to be run with that gear. Where are the epics supposed to come from, for a pre-raid character?
Furthermore, a less-geared character might actually need some of the gear that drops in the ilvl 200 heroics (i.e. everything except CC, FoS, PoS, and HoR), which is a nice change of pace from the usual shardfest. It may take you a few extra minutes to farm your emblems, but PuGs are about more than just you: they're about a group of people coming together to help each other out, and enjoy a dungeon.
Filed under: Items, Analysis / Opinion, Instances
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 11)
SamLowry Jan 3rd 2010 1:02PM
Maybe if drops that weren't needed were turned into gold instead, perhaps that would drive the enchanters out of the pugs and give the rest of us a break.
Ewok Jan 4th 2010 8:48AM
I once got votekicked from a heroic on my moonkin for winning a staff that was a huge upgrade over a warlock.
The other 4 people were from the same guild.
WTF, people.
Michael Jan 2nd 2010 2:10PM
What's sad is that this though is trickling down into the Classic and BC dungeons as well. I've been in many groups where a wipe occurred and party members started quitting in a fit of rage.
This is how it used to be. You'd go into a dungeon, you might wipe. You did your corpse run and came back. Some classic dungeons are a zerg-fest (SM:GY anyone?) but some require coordination, crowd control (what's that?) and a little thought.
Not everyone is going to be geared. I'm in five pieces of Heirloom Gear, the tank is in greens. He can do what he wants to do, I'm probably going to pull aggro off him.
Rhabella Jan 2nd 2010 2:46PM
Hmm, so in one sentence you talk about having some respect for classic design mechanics like a wipe in an instance or even cc, and then you proceed to refuse aggro management because you out gear the tank?
One of the most important nuances for a tank to learn is aggro management and if you are constantly pulling off them on lower level instances and making the healers life hell, well I would rage quit as well.
I'm not saying pugs are perfect, but playign threat monkey because you twinked urself in heirlooms isn't fun for the tank or the healer.
Redcoat Jan 2nd 2010 3:14PM
First of all, I resent being called a monkey.
Second, I didn't say any of which you have accused me. What was meant was that gear disparities are going to exist at all levels. Compared to someone "twinked" in heirloom gear vs. someone who has dungeon greens and blues (which by the way, in many cases are superior to the heirloom gear at that level minus the XP bonus), the heirloom holder will in many cases have to modify their play style in order to remain a competent member of the party.
You're insinuating that I caused the rage-quitting due to pulling off the tank. Please forgive me for not going into detail. The intelligence level of the posters here is usually a bit higher, thank you for reminding me that sometimes I need to speak down.
Reuben Jan 2nd 2010 3:33PM
@Rhabella
You seem very quick to jump to inclusions. Michael didn't actually say anything that you are accusing him, so you can, ya know, relax.
Jonathan Jan 2nd 2010 5:41PM
@Reuben
Maybe I'm stupid, but when I see:
"Not everyone is going to be geared. I'm in five pieces of Heirloom Gear, the tank is in greens. He can do what he wants to do, I'm probably going to pull aggro off him."
It sure does look a whole lot like what was being inferred from the comment. It sounds to me like the poster is indifferent to the fact that he's pulling aggro from the tank, which I would most certainly either quit the dungeon over or ask the offending DPSer to leave over if they won't slow their DPS. I understand that people want to get through the dungeons quickly, but pulling aggro on a consistent basis and causing either the group to wipe or the healer to constantly drink between mobs because they're mass healing instead of being able to focus on the tank with the occasional spot healing on a DPSer is going to slow things down a lot more than just adjusting your rotation for a little less threat generation.
BubblePriest Jan 2nd 2010 7:16PM
@Jonathan:
I can't agree enough. Because tanks at 80 now have (usually) sufficient threat, low level dungeons seem full of alts leveling up who simply don't believe that it is their job to slow down dps so they don't pull off the tank. This usually results in the death of my baby resto druid, because if they have hots ticking on them when they pull off the tank I get heal aggro. I've pointed out that low level tanks simply don't have the threat generation to keep consistent aggro, but it doesn't seem to do much.
Then as I'm lying there dead (oh wait I'm the only one who can rez?) they post Recount. And pull new mobs while I'm running back to my corpse.
I haven't cussed anyone out or something, but if "Are you serious? You guys are gonna have to find another healer if you're gonna pull that stuff," counts as a rage quit then count me in as having done it a few times so far.
PvtDeth Jan 2nd 2010 7:42PM
I'm not sure exactly what Michael meant, but I thought he was saying he'll pull aggro even if he tries not to. I've had plenty of runs, almost all at lower levels, where I couldn't NOT pull no matter how I hard I tried. Cast fireball, wait2 seconds, cast next, wait 2 seconds. It's actually quite difficult. Aggro management includes peeling sometimes. Sometimes you just decide whether or not you can fiish off the mob while it's on its way to you; sometimes you just FD/Invis/whatever as soon as it changes target.
As long as you (as dps) know it's your resposnibility to watch aggro, everything's fine.
Procris Jan 3rd 2010 6:49AM
@Rhabella Not to mention, there isn't really much blue tanking gear while doing classic dungeons. That and only alts have access to herloom items, so you can't expect someone new to the game or new to that server to have that kind of stuff.
Most classes have a way to dump aggro, they should all play their part in a group, if you don't then you can hardly blame the people around you for your own failing (which happens far far to much in pugs).
zappo Jan 4th 2010 10:53AM
There really isn't much of a need for commitment anymore. You just go into LFD and hit a random button and whee - you're ported in. As opposed to finally getting a group together for Mara on your server in order to finish a quest, then running out to the middle of nowhere to finally get in. If you wipe, you could rage quit, but it's quite likely it might take you hours if not days if you even manage to EVER get another group to run that again. Chances are you'd be willing to stick it out. Also people who lack civility probably don't care since they're not even on your server.
MadMac10 Jan 5th 2010 10:47AM
As a hunter, I do a simple test when entering the PUG dungeon-- I will go all out on the mob that the tank is focused on. If Omen starts wheezing, then I know that I'll have to misdirect on every cooldown. But when said tank goes off half-cocked without a healer, or without even checking to see who's got his back, then fuggetaboutid! I'll start wailing on the caster with viper sting on for all that he's worth. Usually he's dead meat by the time he reaches me (but healers still don't need to worry overmuch: there's also frost trap & disengage...)
Gawd, I hate PUGs where the tank tries to out DPS the DPS!
naseem jones Jan 2nd 2010 2:10PM
ive been in plenty of heroics where is was either the only or one of two people very well geared. It was fun out dpsing everyone by double the first couple runs but then I just started getting frustrated that I was the one carrying everyone. Now everytime i queue for a random dungeon its likek i automatically check everyone gear to see if i have any help.
wowmartyjohnson Jan 2nd 2010 4:15PM
Ya know what. Read the article again. Then again.
If you hate it so much, then get together with your pure race buddies and run them together. Or you can get out of the house and help kids at your local Children's hospital. I mean if 'getting sooooo tired of 'carrying' others is something that ruins the DF for you, then you have an easy life. (ie You are a spoiled jerk)
Catacomb Kid Jan 2nd 2010 4:38PM
hahahaah marty, great response
SamLowry Jan 3rd 2010 3:18AM
The whole point of running heroics is to gear up, right? And yet people are still getting snotty when someone shows up to gather the gear that will improve their dps. How dare these nooooobs stink up their leet group!
The overachievers are so focused on Recount that it's a wonder they aren't constantly running into the walls or strolling off the platforms, yet if anyone doesn't meet their expected minimum then out they go. Buh-bye, nooooob--good luck finding a group willing to put up with your sub-par dps!
(Since overachievers tend to lack understanding, compassion, and a clue, perhaps I should point out to them that my post was full of sarcasm intended to expose their selfishness.)
Desmentia Jan 3rd 2010 4:13AM
"The whole point of running heroics is to gear up, right? And yet people are still getting snotty when someone shows up to gather the gear that will improve their dps. How dare these nooooobs stink up their leet group!"
There's a difference between gearing up and running the obnoxious once-daily random because I need Frost emblems to stay in my guild. I wish it would separate the two, but since it doesn't, this article gives me an idea. I'm going to see if I can manipulate my groups by wearing rubbish gear while I queue.
Sargenus Jan 3rd 2010 4:56PM
@Desmentia
You're FORCED to run the random daily to stay in your guild?
Yeah, sorry. That's the first sign I'd /gquit on. No one should -force- you to do anything in a VIDEO GAME. =\
Hyacinthe Jan 4th 2010 5:56AM
@desmentia: It checks the gear in your bags too. But for a neat tip to maximize your LEET run, read the bottom of my comment, too!
@Sargenus: People are in the game for different reasons. Raiding guilds have gear and spec requirements- that is their perogative. Hardcore isn't my thing, but that doesn't mean it's not anybody else's thing. Anyway, I love how you want to minimalize WoW as "just" a VIDEO GAME, but it's also a social club, essentially. The ways this is true have been covered here on WoW.com repeatedly. Just because someone is more into their hobby than you are doesn't make them better or worse than you, it's just a different committment level.
All that being said, it's still dumb as all hell to be snitty to people in a freaking heroic. Did you all know that you don't have to group with random people to get the frost badges? It's true. Get a group together of your leet buddies and have the party leader go into the lfg interface and select "random lich king heroic". Easy as pie, amirite?
sccorp.sc Jan 2nd 2010 2:13PM
I've got 2 characters at about 2900 gear score, a warlock and a DK, and I absolutely have no problem grouping with people who have lower iLevel items than I do. Some people really do forget that gearing up is a process, running dungeons are supposed to be fun, and an MMORPG means gaming with a LOT of different people and personalities. Don't get me wrong, if someone's being flat out ignorant and wiping the group time and time again, or if they're being rude to people in the group, then I'm probably not going to want to run with them. Aside from pure disrespect or someone just blatantly not paying attention, there really shouldn't be a whole lot of discrimination against people with a gear score below yours.
If your an individual who doesn't like taking the time to actually enjoy dungeons, or playing a game that incorporates you working with other people to accomplish an in-game objective, you should go buy a single-player, first person shooter game and get to work!