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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsThe Dungeon Finder and gear disparity
by Eliah Hecht 
Jan 2nd 2010 at 2:00PM
There is some confusion as to whether/how the Dungeon Finder matches characters according to internal gear score. To the best of my knowledge, it actually attempt to create a discrepancy between characters' gear, so that you're likely to wind up with a few heavily geared members 'carrying' lesser-geared members. This is directly contrary to a claim I've seen circulating that the system attempts to match internal gear scores.
If the system doesn't attempt to create disparate groups, it should, and if it does, I'm glad it does. It may be disheartening to see someone in your group in full blues or maybe even a couple greens, instead of the now-familiar suit o' purples, but as some commenters pointed out in my post on Dungeon Finder bingo, we all started out in blues and greens at 80 (with the possible exception of some crafted gear and BoEs), and heroics were designed to be run with that gear. Where are the epics supposed to come from, for a pre-raid character?
Furthermore, a less-geared character might actually need some of the gear that drops in the ilvl 200 heroics (i.e. everything except CC, FoS, PoS, and HoR), which is a nice change of pace from the usual shardfest. It may take you a few extra minutes to farm your emblems, but PuGs are about more than just you: they're about a group of people coming together to help each other out, and enjoy a dungeon.
Filed under: Items, Analysis / Opinion, Instances
Reader Comments (Page 3 of 11)
Psiwave Jan 2nd 2010 2:37PM
I don't mind working with lower geared characters, but sometimes it just doesn't work. My main is a warlock and threat can be a nightmare, I usually play destro for the quick fights in heroics but with a blued up tank one or two crits causes no end of trouble
busuan Jan 2nd 2010 3:58PM
I think 'gear score' is only part of the equation.
As we all know, Blizzard has recorded almost every detail in the game. I think achievements/boss-kills/wipes/heals/tanks, etc. everything we ever did (since they started to collect the data) is considered and weighted in the procedure of random group assembling.
The only thing I think that Blizzard has no clue (at the moment) how to evaluate is the playing style of a player: rotations, how he/she press what buttons and move mouse cursor, how he/she organize UI, and how much attention he/she pays while playing. Because we occasionally do see some players with 200-219 gears doing only 800-900 dps.
PvtDeth Jan 2nd 2010 7:52PM
Busuan, I think you may be giving Blizzard too much credit on this one count. For one, the system gives you a message of something like, "You do not have sufficient gear to enter this instance." Secondly, I've been in several randoms where I had plenty of time to contemplate the system while waiting for the group to corpse run. (Using invisibility after the rest of the group wipes does wonders for your repair bill.) I've been stuck with people who have never run any heroics before, yet are in a group in with fully epiced out players. Now that I think about it, that was me once when I brought my PvP shaman to his first dungeon run EVER.
Not that I mind carrying one or two people, I'm just postulating that the game does very little to form a matched set of players.
SINisterWyvern Jan 2nd 2010 11:42PM
@PvtDeth
You understand that this is stating that the system forms a mismatched group for variety right?
It's not supposed to be all matched up...
Ronin Jan 2nd 2010 2:14PM
"PuGs are about more than just you: they're about a group of people coming together to help each other out, and enjoy a dungeon."
This is a truth that needs to be trumpeted loud and long. Thank you for saying it.
Adeany Jan 2nd 2010 5:00PM
We heard you like pugs so here's a pug so you can pug while you pug.. or something
Sterdoker Jan 2nd 2010 2:15PM
Yes and no. Heroic dungeons are also a place where epic toons go to farm heirlooms, pvp sets, offsets, etc, etc, etc. And I won't kick someone because he isn't as purple as I am, but if he's a tank or a healer, I know that an easy run could potentially become a wipe fest.
The fresh 80 that needs ilvl200 epics should have a place to get gear, but I believe that place is called normal ToC.
Gamer am I Jan 2nd 2010 2:24PM
Did you read the post? That place is called heroics. (specifically the pre-3.2 ones, and specifically Nexus, VH, UK, and CoT)
Sterdoker Jan 2nd 2010 2:52PM
Just check the drops from normal ToC and compare them to any of those heroics you mentioned.
AngryMongoose Jan 2nd 2010 3:30PM
That's actually a good point. The gear you can get from normal difficulty ToC, HoR, PoS and FoS far outmatches gear from standard heroics and is at least as easy to get. Plus, the new dungeons are considerably more fun ^^.
uncaringbear Jan 2nd 2010 5:25PM
If I had another fresh 80, my gearing plan would be this:
1. Get as many quality blues as possible from quests
2. Run a good number of regular dungeons to get better quality blues
3. Snap up some cheap BoE, crafted epics, but only if they're inexpensive
4. Run normal ToC and load up on as many useful pieces as you can
5. When your gear is starting to look better start grinding those heroics
I would recommend making a point of hitting heroic ToC5 everyday, as well as normal mode in FoS/PoS/HoR.
JustinM Jan 2nd 2010 5:32PM
@uncaringbear
First of all, yes I see your name.
Anyway, yeah. I'm glad you have that kind of time on your hands. My rogue alt and her 2900 GS/1.4k DPS is plenty for your heroics, thanks.
Kyle Jan 2nd 2010 2:16PM
Regardless of how they do gear I've started to question how the new system will work out for new players as most of the experiences I've had when trying to get my DPS alt his badges have been horrible. From tanks dropping group if the avg DPS is not over 4k to being called a ninja for needing an item im going to equip (which the accuser wanted to DE) even being vote kicked to doing only 2k dps (if I was in full 232 why would i be in a heroic anyways? I would just assume this is bad luck but after a week of this (4-5 runs a night) I can honestly say that maybe 1 in 5 groups goes smoothly.
Thats not to say the LFG system is entirely flawed as I have had very positive experiencs on both my Prot pally and Disc priest but both of those roles are viewed as much more vital / harder to get.
I was a raving fan of the system until I stepped off of my overgeared mains and into the shoes of a DPS alt that is at the normal gear level for heroics........ Now that ive seen what It will be like for new players I have my doubts that this new system is going to endear new 80's to instances/ raiding
KayQue Jan 3rd 2010 3:45AM
This. My two well-geared characters (healer and dps) have no problems with the df.
But my new 80 has me pulling my hair out. She is a tank, so I don't have to worry about being kicked. But I am constantly nagged "go faster!" and "hurry up!" and "why don't you chain pull?" I go as fast as I feel comfortable given my skills, gear and knowledge of the instance. Then there are the runs where the dps starts running ahead and pulling mobs and expects me to pull off them. And then the complaints if I don't. I'm starting to wonder why I'm even bothering with my tank at all. It isn't worth the stress.
I know all my problems would be multiplied by 10 if I was gearing up a dps alt, because I've seen it happen. For example, a player wanted another dps to drop CoS, before the instance even started, because they were wearing all blues and they thought we wouldn't get the extra boss. If that's an alt, the player probably shrugged it off. I hope they did. But if it's their first toon, how enthusiastic are they going to be about running more instances?
Nastybutler Jan 2nd 2010 2:17PM
When I talk to people about party mix, and I think this applies to raids too, I would say 1/3 should be super awesome with super rad gear, 1/3 should be comfortable in the place and maybe get an upgrade here and there, and 1/3 should be new or newish to the place. I think that makes the best mix. Most stuff won't be disenchanted and the dungeon won't be super hard and take forever. I know 1/3 doesn't work out with 5, 10, or 25 man numbers, but there is some flex room in there.
csarcops Jan 2nd 2010 6:06PM
I think Chex makes the best party mix myself...
Tyr Jan 2nd 2010 2:17PM
I'm pretty sure the gear in your bags is calculated in as well, I've been dropped in FoS hc as a random in ret spec and full leveling blues (and Titansteel destroyer) with my 232/245 tank gear in my bags. Doesn't really sense to me otherwise, that place is just too hard for that level of gear if you don't get fully carried...
Sterdoker Jan 2nd 2010 2:21PM
Woah... that explains stuff =P
Big Shoe Jan 2nd 2010 2:18PM
Here's hoping...
omedon666 Jan 2nd 2010 2:44PM
I can agree with this article, but I would add this.
Before you enter the "automated carrying" that is intended in randoms, I think everyone should observe the "5 man progression", particularly on their first character.
-Specific regular 5-man 80 dungeons (probably a very short phase)
-Random regular 5-man 80 dungeons (probably also a phase that doesn't last long)
-Specific low end heroic 5-man dungeons (UK, VH, DTK, etc)
-*optional* Specific running of "all the rest" of the "first set" of heroics
-*conditional* Specific selection of the "219 set" (H-ToC, Regular frozen halls) as soon as they light up in your options
-*conditional* Specific selection of the heroic frozen halls, as soon as, or shortly after they light up for you.
-Random heroic 5-man dungeons. This phase should be observed only when you are comfortable with most if not all of them. And by comfortable, I don't mean "can heal the whole thing chain pulling without sitting down", I mean not making yourself a victim to the less patient set, by being prepared for whatever and whoever the DF finds for you.
I'm the patient, overgeared but still respectful methodically-paced tank. The tank drives the bus, but the healer's setting the gear, unfortunately not everyone will respect this. The frost grind has made 5-man content a staple of even the most "time is money" raider, and they are mixed in with people like me. I can hang with them, can you? Save yourself the blood pressure increase by being ready for them. You can't tell them to be less efficient with their time but you can prepare yourself for when that pace is forced on you.
Or you can desert, that option is always there. :)