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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsUpcoming class and item balance changes
by Adam Holisky 
Jan 7th 2010 at 8:17PM
There has been a lot of good discussion lately concerning various aspects of the DPS status quo. Some classes are putting out too much compared to their cloth counterparts, and others have suddenly found themselves too powerful in certain areas of the game. Blizzard recognizes this, and this evening the Lead System Designer, Ghostcrawler, came out and enumerated a few things Blizzard believes are true.
Ghostcrawler has left the door open to these class and item balance issues being fixed (if Blizzard decides to pursue such fixes) in either a hotfix or through an upcoming patch. Chief among these changes are an increase in warlock DPS, a decrease in rogue DPS, a change in protection warriors to limit their utility in PvP, and refinements to Icecrown Citadel weapon procs.
When looking over this laundry list of areas to change, it's important to remember that Ghostcrawler is not promising a fix, and that he and his team are not ready to share specifics. He has not promised you the pony, so don't be mad if some of these changes don't happen.
Ghostcrawler's full statement after the break.
Ghostcrawler has left the door open to these class and item balance issues being fixed (if Blizzard decides to pursue such fixes) in either a hotfix or through an upcoming patch. Chief among these changes are an increase in warlock DPS, a decrease in rogue DPS, a change in protection warriors to limit their utility in PvP, and refinements to Icecrown Citadel weapon procs.
When looking over this laundry list of areas to change, it's important to remember that Ghostcrawler is not promising a fix, and that he and his team are not ready to share specifics. He has not promised you the pony, so don't be mad if some of these changes don't happen.
Ghostcrawler's full statement after the break.
From Ghostcrawler:
As many of you have suspected, we think rogue damage is too high. We will be making hotfixes to lower the maximum damage output of Assassination and Combat rogues. The Combat nerf will be slight. Both specs should still do just fine on damage meters (assuming skill, gear etc.) but shouldn't be beating out other specs to such a large degree.
Other things on our radar that you might see soon -- none of these are promises and we have no specific changes to announce yet:
- Warlock damage in PvE is a little low.
- Protection warriors have too much utility and damage for PvP. (We don't want to hurt their tanking in PvE of course.)
- We are considering adjusting (not replacing) the Elemental 4 piece Tier 10 set bonus.
- We'll continue to refine and look at the Icecrown weapon procs.
- Other stuff (yes, we've heard your concerns), but these are the big things we are focusing on at this time.
We usually don't make such general announcements before we're ready to share the specifics, so we'll see how this works out.
Filed under: Patches, News items
Reader Comments (Page 4 of 9)
zappo Jan 8th 2010 9:56AM
I'd actually be ok with shockwave going to a daze. For various reasons I'd actually say I'd prefer it.
Kole Jan 7th 2010 8:52PM
I am afraid to go look at the original post because I might get sucked into the void called nerf QQ....
Terethall Jan 7th 2010 9:37PM
The original post is reproduced exactly in the WoW.com post, but the original is actually locked while WoW.com allows comments. Click the link and read in peace, my friend.
TL;DR is ITT: Rogues QQing and threatening to quit while everyone else silently enjoys the truth.
Bloomindraal Jan 7th 2010 8:53PM
Dear Blizzard: Please fix subtlety rogues. I know you said that the subtlety tree is more of a utility, but why not make combat the utility tree. All the combat rogues can go roll warriors and carry around a few invisibilty potions - they won't know the difference.
Rogues are supposed to be stealthy and supposed to be assassins ... make those the primary raiding trees.
Al Jan 7th 2010 9:04PM
Quite the narrow minded definition on what a rogue is you have there. Rogues are not just "stealthy ninjas" but also lightly armored skirmishers and scout-like fighters. Rogues have a variety of abilities and the Combat Tree makes them more focused on hand-to-hand combat rather than just lurking in the shadows. Quite frankly. my Combat rogue is a completely different beast than my warrior. So yes, we would know the difference. A rogue player would know that.
The Scarlet Mathematician Jan 7th 2010 9:05PM
I'll go one step further. Blizzard should make all three trees viable for PvE. If mages, warlocks, death knights, and hunters can have three viable PvE specs, I don't think there is a good reason why rogues can't, either.
I have a suspicion this will be the case in Cataclysm.
Eli Jan 7th 2010 9:56PM
Because Beast Mastery is *SUCH* a viable, competitive raid spec, yeah?
One word.
Lulz.
Take equally geared, equally competent hunters, and BM will always perform well under MM and Survival. The last two are close enough in numbers that it depends on more on personal preference/the fight at hand.
The most important features of BM, admittedly, make it much more useful for soloing and Beast Cleave.
Eli Jan 7th 2010 9:57PM
To clarify:
By "Beast Cleave" I meant the Beast Cleave arena team setup: Enhancement shaman, Beast Mastery Hunter, and another class that I'm forgetting.
Bloomidraal Jan 7th 2010 10:17PM
@ Al relax sweetheart, my comment about combat rogues was made in jest. My actual point was that Blizzard continues to pay attention to the other 2 trees while totally ignoring subtlety.
That being said combat rogues are a metaphor for what the game has become today. Quickly run in, aoe , collect the loot. Blizz has designed these encounters to cater to the lowest common denominator (see Al and his combat rogue), so no one needs to cc or has the time to re-enter stealth.
Shardrell Jan 7th 2010 10:59PM
Ha, maybe we combat rogues do that in Heroics that we vastly overgear, but who doesn't run in, AoE, and collect loot in Heroics that they vastly overgear? I assure you that when I'm raiding ICC I work just as hard as any other DPS class to maximize my DPS and my utility.
Do I wish that more of my DPS were based on how well I play my class than on my ability to juggle stats according to the latest spreadsheet? Yes, and I'm hoping they will work on that in Cataclysm. In the meantime, I'm working on improving my skills, maximizing my rotations, and adding utility wherever I can. Just because some people play combat rogues like doofuses doesn't mean we all do, and the same can be said for any class/spec that's currently getting hate because Blizz overtuned them. Just remember that when the OP crown falls on you.
dawneb Jan 8th 2010 1:35PM
@ Bloomidraal
You're kidding right? lol. Rogues have nothing to do with the apparent lack of Tanks marking trash pulls, whether from lack of knowledge or going with the flow of, "lets run this in 5 minutes and leave", trend in Wrath.
I've actually run into people who didn't know what LoS pull meant and thought Skull, X, Square were just there to highlight the mobs. Focus fire wut you mean dude?
And the last I checked, an end game geared Mut rogue now has less buttons to mash then a Combat rogue that knows what to mash to keep up with the Mut's on the meters. Read the updated FAQs on EJ.
Frodo34x Jan 8th 2010 1:52PM
"I'll go one step further. Blizzard should make all three trees viable for PvE. If mages, warlocks, death knights, and hunters can have three viable PvE specs, I don't think there is a good reason why rogues can't, either."
Last I checked frost, demo, frost and BM were all significantly inferior to their alternatives.
Holgar Jan 7th 2010 8:53PM
I'm a bit leery of how they intend to take away warrior utility in pvp and yet keep them at their current state in pve because I use a lot of the same stuff in both......
Sleutel Jan 7th 2010 8:53PM
The tank... with by far the lowest PvE DPS... is overpowered in PvP because of our DPS... ?
Clearly, I'm missing out by not taking my Prot War into Arenas in her Block set. Or something.
Baval Jan 7th 2010 9:09PM
the problem is, most classes do CONSIDERABLY less dps in pvp then pve, for example, i do 5k dps in pve as a lock, and 600 dps in pvp on average. The reason is of course things like cc, moving, and silences and disarms. Now, in the case of a prot warrior, they have so many abilities that they can all but ignore any of those things, stay next to their opponent, and spell reflect or block anything that would stop them. Therefore, their pvp dps is much much closer to their pve dps when compared to say, a prot pally who has to avoid being kited do to lack of a range closer or a Bear druid who is easily cc'd after beserk.
Butts Jan 7th 2010 10:45PM
Here's the thing that makes PVP Prot so deadly right now. Get 2 pieces of T10 gear for the +20% damage to shield slam. Add to that lots of strength/ArP for other pieces that boost your shield blocking. You can do 20k crits with Shield Slam when you have Shield Block on. With Sword And Board that can make it refresh almost right after (if lucky), you have another huge shield slam coming (with +10% to the block rating if glyphed). Add to that the dispel effect from Shield Slam (not that useful, but I once knocked an Innervate out of a resto druid that was nearly out of mana).
And that's just for their damage spikes, add to this their stuns, disarms, ranged silence, melee silence to school shut down, daze (which gives heroic strike bonus damage and slows the target), sunder armor, chance of a free stun with Charge/Revenge that are not in the DR table of other stuns, and can be a free interrupt.
Also have Vigilance which reduces damage target by a friend, and Intervene which allows you to take a hit (combined with spell reflect this can be deadly), and lower the damage taken by the friend.
Warriors are OP when played well, they suck in bad hands.
Sleutel Jan 7th 2010 11:24PM
@Butts:
"chance of a free stun with Charge/Revenge that are not in the DR table of other stuns"
Are you sure about that? I'm almost positive I've had Charge stuns come off as DR-immune on Faction Champs, and I respecced out of the Revenge stun specifically to avoid any possibility of Anub adds going stun-immune for TotGC25.
GrumblyStuff Jan 7th 2010 11:49PM
@Sleutel
The stun from Charge doesn't start DR nor is affected by it. This way your Concussion Blow or Shockwave isn't halved because you charged (or the arms warrior in your group) charged the target.
CB and SW are part of controlled stuns. The talented Revenge stun has a proc rate which, while it is a good proc rate, isn't guaranteed and this puts it in the uncontrolled stun DR category.
There's a writeup at WoWWiki but I'm not sure how up to date it is or how up to date I am (controlled stuns are labeled simple as "stun" and uncontrolled are "stun proc"): http://www.wowwiki.com/Diminishing_Returns
Sleutel Jan 7th 2010 11:54PM
@GrumblyStuff:
Guess that's what I get for trusting that my tank lead knew what he was talking about. :D
jslim419 Jan 8th 2010 6:11AM
"Warriors are OP when played well"
every class is OP when played well. you realize that prot is the only spec that stands any chance what so ever in pvp for warriors don't you? sure arms still has great burst, and mild survivability in full season 7 gear, but in most situations arms/fury gets raped by just about every class compared to how the other classes themselves fare in pvp. which is why a lot of warriors have, and are switching to prot for pvp. because it allows us to live longer than 3-5 seconds when even one on one with any other class than another warrior.
if they nerf protection warriors down to what some people that play certain classes say they should be (cough.. rogues.. cough warlocks). then it's more or less blizzard telling us "sorry. your supposed to be free kills in pvp. now be good little foot soldiers, and go die as quickly as you can to make our rogue, and caster overlords happy!"