Patch 5.4 patch notes
Virtual Realms feature revealed
The Proving Grounds are coming
The latest patch 5.4 newsProt Warrior nerf details
by Matthew Rossi 
Jan 9th 2010 at 2:00PM
Honestly, neither of these are huge gamebreakers. I liked that Warbringer cleared roots and snares for me when I was tanking, and I barely even noticed it in PvP: it was like a free self-cast Hand of Freedom. As for nerfing Shield Slam, well, like I said I don't stack block value so a lower block value cap on the ability wouldn't really affect me. Irritate me? Yes, it will do that. But it isn't a game breaker either. Of course, since as the commenters mentioned yesterday prot PvP warriors don't stack shield block value at all (I know you guys don't read my posts, Blizzard, but if for some reason someone is, look at all that ArP. Look at all that lack of block value. It is ArP that drives the prot PvP damage machine. ArP, not block value. Just thought I'd mention that) then I fail to see any point to the change either.
So there we have it: Warbringer gets changed and Shield Slam might get changed which is like taking a club away from a guy who is shooting people.
Filed under: Warrior, Analysis / Opinion, News items, PvP, Talents, Wrath of the Lich King, Arena
Reader Comments (Page 3 of 7)
LuminousNerd Jan 9th 2010 2:32PM
Uh, no, the nerf was needed and well deserved. No one else can get out of roots and snares on such a short cooldown (well, Druids, but they aren't very limited by this type of CC in the first place).
Right now warriors who know what they're doing are rampaging around arena like nobody's business. They are impossible to control, they put out ridiculous damage, and they're hard to kill.
If you honestly don't think prot warriors need a nerd right now you either play one and can't look at things objectively or aren't good enough at it to see what is possible right now.
KronosIII Jan 9th 2010 3:02PM
To LuminousNerd
WHAT ROCK DO YOU LIVE UNDER?!
The problem is the damage they are doing. Nerf the damage or change the T10 set bonus and the problem is solved. After that all your left with is a annoying little warrior that can't heavily damage you.
And just about all melee have a way to get out of CC. And this is the prot wars only way.
K then I guess we should also nerf hand of protection as well. As well as any other CC remover. Totems gone! all the little tricks of a rogue gone.
The problem is the damage output not the ability to get form one place to another.
And they are ignoring the BIG ISSUE
THE MAIN AND BIGGEST PROBLEM IS HOW BLOCK WORKS. This is why warriors blow at mitigation and take the msot damage to any class when tanking bosses. And this is why PPL get roflstomped in pvp by shield slams. It is because block is broken at the moment for warriors. It can be stacked by ungodly amounts and it can be just plain awful when you don't have allot of block value. This is the issue. Its blizzards retarded logic in ignoring a bigger problem.
BTW all the smart Dev's went to make the new mmo. So my expectations of them being able to handle this game as well has dropped to low standards.
And yet again blizzard focusing on PVP has prevented us from losing out on allot of content in WOW. Like how old kingdom was going to be a whole leveling zone. And how we missed out on great general ideas on raids because blizzard was too busy fixing Arena issues. Arena is just a god awful mess and should just be thrown away so they can focus on other stuff.
Mobility is the only thing going for prot warriors. WE fail to compare in other areas where tanks should be good at. But ya please go ahead and nerf the damage of the least dps output tank in the game. THATS A GREAT IDEA!
KronosIII Jan 9th 2010 4:52PM
To LuminousNerd
=) I love seeing fools rage and then turn it around by saying you were trolling
I'm yelling? Sorry I did not know typing in a post turned on my vent channel.
If by any means you heard yelling from a vent channel, I'm sure it was not me.
But if you hear yelling when reading my post I think you might see a doctor
symptoms include ignorance, blind retarded rage, and in general all levels of retardation
HUR-DUR HUR-DUR HUR-DUR HUR-DUR HUR-DUR HUR-DUR HUR-DUR
lolumad? =)
sharikem Jan 10th 2010 6:51AM
Why is the troll being uprated and the actual proper poster being downrated?
Prot warrior actually counters mages because of the huge amount of stuns silences interrupts and ways to get out of snares that they have.
The Shield block nerf (if it goes through) is uncalled for because prot warriors in arenas don't use it, they gem and gear for arp. Look at the top rated prot warrior, 100% passive arp.
The problem with prot warriors right now isn't the average player with the average gear. It's the amazing players with the top of the line gear. They are the ones that can wreak havoc as prot. Imagine as a priest being out in the open for half a second then being stun locked and silenced for the rest of the game while the prot warrior and hunter beat on you. Not even in full relentless can you survive that for more than 3/4 seconds.
And yes, using caps does count as shouting when it comes to internet. Just a little tip for you Kronos.
KronosIII Jan 10th 2010 3:01PM
To sharikem
I'm not downrated becuase I know what I'm talking about.
Do you not know what shield block does? It increases your block rating AND BLOCK VALUE by 100%
That mixed with recklessness, armor pen, shield slam = an ungodly amount of damage.
As you said the problem is the damage warriors are putting out too much damage with armor pen.
And as I said the main issue is how block works for warriors. It is broken as hell and can be taken advantage of very easily.
The long and annoying route would be to fix armor pen and block on warriors. But the easier and retarded way is to nerf how they move around and nerf the damage of shield damage.
It is retarded to even look at when the problem is armor pen with shield slam. They are msot likely jsut ignoring the issue and waiting for cata. when all the gear gets changed.
Regardless of what ppl say this nerf will greatly nerf warriors.(warbringer) Mages can easily take down the basic prot warrior and after this what is a warrior suppose to do?
Mages can keep (rank1) frost bolt on them all day with a cast time lower then a second. Blink away and frost nova warriors in place with them not able to do a thing. Same goes with hunters.
As Rossi said, they are nerfing the wrong thing. And it will lead to many /face palms from blizzard.
gabeharrison Jan 9th 2010 2:28PM
Warbringer has been my favorite talent since it was put in game. The main reason I love my warrior above my other tanks is his mobility. Is it game breaking? No. Is it taking one of the best things about a warrior and throwing it away because a small segment of the player population uses it AS INTENDED to PLAY COMPETITIVELY at ARENAS? Yes.
Personally, I wouldn't care if they nerfed my dps to 3 as long as I can still tank. It's also incredibly frustrating that there hasn't been a real warrior change for good or bad since WotLK release, but now we're overpowered.
GoldenGoat Jan 9th 2010 2:32PM
So ... they're nerfing the tanking spec of the worst tank class in the game?
GG, Blizz.
Dominika Jan 9th 2010 2:41PM
No, they're not touching Death Knights, why do you ask?
KronosIII Jan 9th 2010 2:41PM
Nerfing damage on the tank tank with the lowest dps
GG BLIZZ
MoarHeroisms Jan 9th 2010 2:35PM
Despair.......so delicious.
The blue post referenced in this article mentioned that they don't intend to change Intervene in the Warbringer talent, so warriors can still use it to escape snares then Charge/Intercept to confront said foes.
A nerf that doesn't provoke Rossi to throw his chair (or anything within proximity not nailed down) out the window can't be a bad nerf.
dyre42 Jan 9th 2010 2:38PM
That was my only problem with prot warriors in one on one pvp. There was no way to keep them out of your face if you were ranged DPS.
KronosIII Jan 9th 2010 2:44PM
really? From my information there is plenty of ways to get away as any class
Lrn to play? This nerf is from qq like this
VSUReaper Jan 9th 2010 2:41PM
With the warbringer nerf, I can see how its going to not effect PVE (that occasional fight where you get slowed by a poison on the floor and gotta get thru it fast...) but the shield slam nerf.
I'm sorry, but its still effecting PVE. Yes, in raids we dont stack SBV, but in 5 mans, where I have to produce enough threat on a mob in one move that it sticks to me while I struggle to keep the other 10 on me, I stack SBV. I have a specfic set of gear, that allows me to do this, and its only used when I'm out farming meat and when I'm in the REALLY STUPID EASY 5 mans that if I wore my normal tanking set, would leave me starved for rage.
As for PVP, its like Rossi said, its the not the SBV thats causing the MASSIVE crits that people are whining about (although it does help), its the fact that people have learned to make the stars align every 2 min or so in a set of gear designed to bust thru your armor and resil.
5 sunders, glyph of block, a critical block, at least one trinket (if not both) proc'd/activated, improved disarm, enrage active, with a shield slam crit will produce ~6k crit on someone in resil gear. All of that has to go perfectly right or else it wont happen, and the target will just shrug it off. If you want to nerf prot pvp, then nerf the extra damage modifiers (imp disarm), or make it so ARP wont effect shield slam.
I just cant understand the whole "we are happy with prot warriors, making 10 things go perfectly right, at just the right time sucks for his target, but it works" and then they turn around and do this. Its already bad enough all the other tanks do more damage than us, but if they nerf our ONE FUN TANKING ability, then why dont we all just reroll?
Mike Jan 9th 2010 2:42PM
I don't even play a Warrior but every change that affects PvE but was changed due to PvP imbalance just pisses me off. How about keep up two separate sets of balancing for PvE and PvE servers? That would be awesome.
Alden Jan 9th 2010 2:47PM
The article isn't really a QQ, but the comments... holy crud.
Warriors aren't the "worst" tanking class right now.
Please drop the whole "OMG I F*CKING HATE PVE NERFS FOR PVP". Deal with it. Pvp gets messed up for pve, pve gets messed up for pvp. Blizzard is trying to do their best to balance all the aspects of the game. And like it or not, pvp is an aspect of the game (regardless of if you do it.)
Nerfs happen. Deal with it. You'll be fine. I promise some day you'll be the best again, then later get nerfed... it happens. Deal with it.
And yes, I have an 80 warrior... no one likes nerfs, but they happen. Most commenters on here sounds like whiny brats.
Matthew Rossi Jan 9th 2010 2:52PM
The real issue here is they're nerfing the wrong thing. The issue isn't stacking shield block value in PvP. It's a non issue. The issue is a combination of specific talents with very high ArP values that allow Shield Slam to put out very high damage. If you actually wanted to lower prot burst in Arenas/PvP, you'd need to change ArP. The problem there is, you'd lower everyone else's burst, too.
The end result of changing Shield Slam to have a lower block value cap is negligible unless they make it so low that the ability is ruined for PvE tanking. That's the problem: this nerf will either have no impact in PvP (since smart prot PvP won't stack block value after it any more than they do now, which is to say, not really much at all) or it will have a massive bad impact on PvE, depending on how low they make the cap.
But to change ArP, the real culprit, is going to require a ton of work that at this juncture doesn't seem feasible.
crschmidt Jan 9th 2010 3:14PM
Technically speaking, using World of Logs numbers for Lord Marrowgar and Lady Deathwhisper in 25-man (both fights that require/use 3 tanks, so you won't find tanks acting like DPS), Warriors are underperforming significantly in terms of damage done compared to Protection Paladins and Bear Druids; the former two have a high endaverage of around 4500 DPS, while warriors are closer to 3500. Obviously, a lot of this depends on the fight, but it seems like there is some data to support the concept that Warrior tanks are doing less damage than other tanks, which is one aspect of 'worse' that matters. (This 'high average' is basically gotten by eyeballing the numbers, and seeing where they normalize out a bit, rather than having huge, multi-hundred DPS gaps in them.)
I don't have any experience tanking as a warrior; I don't know if this is because these fights make it easier for other tanks in some way, but I think that it's fair to say that there is some room for improvement in Warrior DPS in Icecrown 25-man raiding to be comparable to the DPS put out by other tanks.
MoarHeroisms Jan 9th 2010 3:15PM
With at least five months (based on intuition) until Cataclysm and the removal of the armor penetration stat, it's not worth putting the time and effort into nerfing it. Warrior talents that buff armor pen? Sure, but not the stat itself.
Lyon Jan 9th 2010 3:26PM
What Rossi said about ArP is the true culprit. I am a prot and I will say that the SS nerf seems very imbalanced because it is our burst threat gen and our major dps in PvE. When raid dps is hitting for 7 or 8k at the drop of the fight, I use SS's to keep threat above them. What they are doing is limiting the threat we can do, straight across, not even counting our dps. When heroic Festergut becomes available and the fight tolerances become even tighter, you will want the tank that helps take the boss down faster. That won't be warrior tanks. I'm not saying we can't be in a raid that does take them down but that others contribute more. Already, me and our bear tank switch off so that he gets the most downtime on Festergut so that he can go kitty and do good dps.
For the WB nerf, that again is still a PvE nerf. The game is still more than boss fights or arenas. There is still questing, 5 mans, trash in raid instances, etc. In many of those, I get snared or rooted and that doesn't even count Faction Champs in ToC/ToGC. Prot warriors use charge to get rage in many of those instances. Now we won't. And on top of that, we have only one ranged attack with a 1 minute CD. We have to cross distance to affect mobs. All other tanks have tools to either get out of roots/snares or attack from range or both.
As for PvP, both are a nerf that wasn't needed. We are not OP. In BC when prot warrior's complained that they couldn't win duels, a 1v1, they were told that PvP is not about 1v1, that it didn't matter cause if you had a pocket healer, you would do well. So now when we actually have a 50/50 chance in a 1v1, we are called OP. That means if we aren't a guaranteed killed, that we should nerfed. Seems pretty one-sided to me.
Walynds Jan 10th 2010 8:06PM
Shield Slam : Bash the target with the FLAT side of your shield Causing x damage modified by SBV. This ability is not affected by ArP.
Other more sensible suggestions than blizzards change include making PvE set bonuses not applicable in arenas.
Fixed amirite? I dont like these changes and Rossi, your Club / Gun analogy is awesome and 100% correct. Having said that I cant wait to see the QQ from my guilds Druid PvPer who thinks these changes will actually make a difference. Hope he gets two hit for his QQing about this issue. These are exactly the chages he wanted! Hes gonna be pissed when he realises it will do nothing.
Also Inb4 Shockwave or Conc blow becomes a daze.