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1-11-2010 @ 7:29PM
"*Cut damage away from protection warriors, up their threat modifiers to make up for it.*Take the blanket silence off of Shield Bash and Heroic Throw. Change Gag Order into an interrupt effect."There are both ideas that would be TERRIBLE for Prot Warrior PvE.Cutting damage: We're already at the BASEMENT of tank DPS.Removing silence: This is the only way we currently have to move casters in trash packs. The new ICC instances area already tricky for a Prot War (doable, definitely, but you have to know your class); remove our silences, and we will have literally NO way to get a caster to join the rest of the pack. With one caster, that's not a problem, because you can just tank everything else on the caster (the melee will run to you). But with multiple casters (as is the case pretty much everywhere in ICC 5-mans), you MUST have some way to gather up the scattered casters, or they will eat your DPS and healer alive.
*These are bothWTB edit button.
1-11-2010 @ 7:33PM
Mages have Counterspell, warlocks have Spell Lock, protection paladins have Avenger's Shield, etc etc etc.While I'm sure trash is an incredibly important aspect that needs lots of balance attention, I'm still going to stick with my argument for now.
1-11-2010 @ 7:52PM
It's not just about trash, I use my heroic throw all the time to wrangle adds in the Lady Deathwhisper fight. I don't think you understand how important that silence is for a pve prot warrior. I understand is has issues in pvp but it is immensely important for pve tanking. As for reducing our damage and upping our threat that isn't the greatest solution in the world either, too many pve fights depend on the tank bringing a reasonable amount of dps to the table. Warriors are already at the low end, even after the devastate buff, bringing us down further only hurts our viability in serious pve content. A tank's job is not just to keep something attacking them but to also not be a dead weight on the dps charts.But if I had to choose between the two for pve I'd choose a damage reduction over your suggested nerf to heroic throw.I think they should just to warriors what they do to pallies and shamen, make some of their abilities not work in arenas, or work differently.
1-11-2010 @ 7:55PM
@C.Christian.Moore:"Mages have Counterspell, warlocks have Spell Lock, protection paladins have Avenger's Shield, etc etc etc."The first two (and DK Death Grips, etc.) all rely on someone EXTERNAL to the tank to solve the problem. You cannot ever assume that the rest of your group is not full of people who are either ignorant about their classes or just don't care about anything but topping the meters--who won't stop their rotation for the single GCD it takes to help you gather the adds up.The lattermost, I have no idea where you're even coming from. If you have a Prot Paladin in a five-man with a Prot Warrior, somebody fucked up.Bottom line: EVERY tank needs some mechanic to gather scattered adds so they can maintain threat on them.
1-11-2010 @ 8:04PM
Sleutel:Or you can just run up and tank it. Removing silence from shattering throw is not as game-breaking (lol pun) as you might think.Afterall, I suggested that it be made an interrupt. Are you telling me that a good prot warrior couldn't just use it as an interrupt for the same purpose?
1-11-2010 @ 9:44PM
@C.Christian.Moore:One of us doesn't understand PvE game mechanics.My understanding is that if you interrupt but do not silence, the mob will stay where it is and restart casting. You need a SILENCE to get the mob to follow you after you hit it. Your understanding is apparently that if you interrupt, the mob will follow you even though it could start casting at that moment.Running up and tanking a caster DOES NOT WORK for multiple casters, as I already explained. When there are two or more casters in a pack, far enough apart that when I'm on one, the other is out of melee range, one of them needs to be silence-pulled. It's right there in the name of the technique. It's a SILENCE pull, not an INTERRUPT pull.
1-12-2010 @ 4:22AM
Right, this isn't true. If it is I'll gladly eat this point and retract this statement.If you interrupt a mob, it will also be locked out from that school of spells.As for casting fireball when you interrupt frost bolt, very few mobs do this although I'm sure the possibility for disaster is there.On trash.
1-12-2010 @ 9:03AM
Interrupts require the mob to begin casting first. Instead of just pulling the caster with the rest of the mobs, they would have to pull the pack, wait for the cast to start, then start the interrupt. It causes problems for people with latency issues and mobs with instant cast spells.Protection started off very defensive-minded. It wasn't very fun, which is why it got so many toys for WotLK. Lowering the PvE damage of the class that does the least PvE damage is a bad idea no matter how you swing it, because it means more burden on the rest of the raid. To really solve this you need to stop ArP from being useful in PvP, as its the only stat that they don't use in PvE.
1-12-2010 @ 11:02AM
@C.Christian.Moore:I know very little of PvP mechanics, and would not presume to comment on what effect changes would have for Arena play. I think it would be your credit if you would admit that you are overall much too unfamiliar with PvE mechanics to comment on what would or would not constitute a class-breaking nerf for Prot Warriors in PvE.
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