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1-11-2010 @ 1:07PM
I seriously can't wait for Cataclysm. The Guild Advancement system can't come quickly enough. That'll teach people to not treat their guild and their guildies as just a means to an end. Nowadays players seem to treat other players as NPCs whose sole purpose is to gear up their character(s).
1-11-2010 @ 1:20PM
But will it help? What stops someone from leaving your guild for another one that is higher level and has picked up more talent points, or has their points distributed a different way?
1-11-2010 @ 1:26PM
The hoppers will hop regardless of what the situation is. The Advancement system will at least help people give their guild a second chance during troubled times instead of calling it quits. At least I hope so.
1-11-2010 @ 1:27PM
+1 million to that comment.I'm a high level officer in my guild and in the last two months we experienced a massive outflux of people that we had all taken on raids and geared both their mains and their alts, none said why, one even knew an officer in RL! We are a decent raiding guild, maybe semi-casual as we only raid 2-3 times a week, but we can get most stuff done. Our only problem was/is being slightly behind the curve i.e. it takes us a few weeks to get to new content, not the day it's released then it takes a few weeks to get through that content once we get to it, but I think that's balanced by the fact we are all nice and don't berate people on vent for one mistake. Everyone gets gear from end game raids eventually, but as we near having a 25 man group each new month (we run 10s due to the losses with mixes of different people), people seem to leave in packs, putting us right back to 10 mans only.We've not found a solution or reason why yet? We ask people after they leave sometimes and get no, or generic responses or things that seem like outright lies. I feel like we are used as a cash machine/gear machine as we are dynamite at training/gearing people to 5K+ gear scores and 4K+ DPS, who then up and leave to join the elitest of the elite raiding guild, or whatever else it is the others do?
A guild is what YOU make of it, the people involved. If it sucks, there's bad leadership or bad members. Everyone's wishing for something to come along (Cata guild enhancements, for one) to make being in a guild better, and frankly, my guild is awesome because of the people involved and the way we help each other.
1-11-2010 @ 1:32PM
@ AdeanyIt will most likely hurt new guilds significantly because of the reasons you listed. However, it will theoretically benefit *most* guilds in that they will have an easier time hanging on to members.Currently, unless you are in a very high end progression guild that successfully completes hardmodes, your guild does not have anything tangible to offer that your guild members couldn't get by being guildless.However, incentivizing anti-social players who see guilds as a means to an end is not necessarily the best thing I can imagine for guilds. I mean, when push comes to shove, do you REALLY want those players? Sure, they may be great at playing the game, but is killing that boss as satisfying when you do it surrounded by people that you couldn't care less if they dropped dead tomorrow?
1-11-2010 @ 2:38PM
I was just thinking about this yesterday. It seems like, with the advent of the DF system, that WoW has become much more impersonal. The...I don't know, call it "ambience" is missing. It's all about heroics and gearing up, and in my guild at least, if you're not geared up to ICC levels, they pretty much don't want anything to do with you, like, say, running guild raids on Naxx or Ulduar to help gear people up. "Run heroics and gear up, then come talk to us," they say. What happened to the community? What happened to guildies helping guildies? (To be fair, some guildies do help - but it sure seems to me that a guild's leadership should be addressing the needs of lower-geared guildies and not just the top tier.)
1-11-2010 @ 4:56PM
@Blacksheep - As someone who recently left a casual raiding guild for a more serious one, I think it's not as simple as people only seeing the guild as a way for loot. Obviously, those players exist. There's not much you can do about them short of turning them away during their application/recruitment phase. Me, personally, I enjoyed the company of my guildies, and I honestly didn't care that we weren't making realm-firsts or progressing as fast as possible, but the 'casual' aspect of the guild meant that friends of the raid leader got preferential treatment, and players who consistently did badly were never called on their mistakes. This led to situations where we took people doing 2k dps into ICC-25 (hai friends of the RL still in Naxx gear), dps who refused to dps adds on deathwhisper or to dps the bone spikes, and a RL who did nothing to try and change that. What you see as being nice and not berating someone over vent for making a mistake, can be very frustrating to your fellow raiders who spend the night wiping endlessly because people refuse to do what they're supposed to do. I'm not saying that you should be screaming at vent anytime someone slips up, but if the raid has spent 3 hours in ulduar wiping the entire raid in p1 Yogg because one person can't stay out of the clouds, then maybe it's time to say something instead of forcing the raid to repeatedly wipe and wasting 24 other people's times. There's the 'good' kind of wiping where you're actually learning the content and improving. And then there's the pointless kind of wiping where you're not meeting enrage timers or just failing because of the actions of a few.In the end, it's about what's important to the player. Some players prefer a guild of friends who raid, where they wipe and progress slowly than to exclude anyone from raid content (even if they clearly aren't ready for it) or to criticize people for making mistakes. Other players will prefer a raiding guild that happens to be friends, where people are held to certain standards.I would take a close look at the atmosphere of your raids (when you wipe, why does that happen? What do you do to improve the next attempt? How much time do you waste waiting for people to log on/be prepared? Does every player who gets seated pull their weight?) and decide if there's something you'd like to change to retain more raiders. If it's nothing wrong with your actual raiding atmosphere, then I'd be a bit more picky about recruitment and try to weed out the obvious loot whores, maybe by seeing their reactions to loot distribution during a raid for a trial period.
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