Abilities I usually wish didn't exist in 5-mans

Not all tanks will have the same degree of irritation with all of the following skills (for example, I play a druid, and because bears don't have a ranged silence, a knockback on a caster mob is much more likely to annoy me than, say, a death knight tank), but I promise you that they've all been mentioned by my tanking colleagues as abilities with a high chance of blowing a pull.
Thunderstorm, Typhoon, and Blast Wave
Some of you may recall that I have written on the subject of knockbacks before. I wasn't really fond of them in 5-mans then, and I'm not really fond of them now.
When they're awesome: If you're knocking something toward a tank, knocking a loose mob away from the healer, or you're a boomkin and Typhoon is the only way you have to interrupt, say, the Ghostly Priest's heal in heroic Halls of Reflection, then a knockback can be at least be helpful. I'm not going to lie and say that the annoyance factor will vanish, but I will grudgingly concede that you're using it for a good reason.
Why tanks hate them: I don't build aggro on stuff I can't hit. Beyond that, the number of players who stop and think about the results of blowing caster or ranged mobs away from a tank is vanishingly small. If I've line-of-sighted a pull and dragged the mobs into a narrow area, it's because I want them in that specific position, and line-of-sight is the only way I have to force them to come into tankable range. If you knock them away from me, a ranged mob is going to stand wherever you just put them and keep trying to kill me, and I can't silence casters to force them to mosey on over. My only silence is also a stun, which doesn't help the positioning issue. While other tanks can deal with caster mobs a little more easily than bears can, there's no guarantee that their interrupt is off cooldown or that they'll be able to silence multiple enemies to get them to move again.
The bottom line is that, even deployed correctly, knockbacks play havoc with where the tank actually wants the mobs.
Divine Storm and Bladestorm
When they're awesome: At any point after I've had the chance to beat on the mobs for longer than 1-2 seconds.
Why tanks hate them: Because that never happens.
Army of the Dead
When it's awesome: Did the healer disconnect? Is this phase 2 or 3 of the Black Knight in Trial of the Champion or...well, pretty much at any point in heroic HoR's trash waves? Is a pull going to hell, I'm about to die, and the healer's out of commission? Not only is that a great time for AotD, but I'll also thank you afterwards for having the foresight to pop it in these circumstances.
Why tanks hate it: On any boss or mob with a frontal cone attack, cleave, or tail swipe, AotD is usually more trouble than it's worth. The enemy will just keep spinning around to target and stomp ghouls on all sides of them, which means that the mob is basically uncontrollable for as long as the ghouls are still up. On any boss encounter or trash pull where the mobs being uncontrollable is a highly undesirable occurrence, please rethink pulling out the little beasties. Healers will also hate you for popping Army on, say, Keristrasza and getting them tail-swiped out of the party's range.
Feign Death
Why it's awesome: Because it exists.
Why tanks hate it: Because Murphy's Law dictates that the people who actually need to use it are the ones who don't seem to have it hotkeyed.
Death Grip
When it's awesome: There are a lot of places in Wrath dungeons where it is not particularly convenient (or sometimes even possible) to line-of-sight a pull. If you Death Grip a caster or ranged mob over to the group for me -- say, an Ahn'kahar Spell Flinger charging up a Shadow Blast -- I will be your bestest buddy for the rest of the run.
Why tanks hate it: The odds of your running across a DPS death knight who uses Death Grip correctly seems to occur at a rate of around 1%. Far more common is the DPS DK who impatiently pulls the next group before you do, but lacks the sense to at least pull a caster mob while doing it. The inevitable result is a melee enemy beating on the death knight while I run around like a giant idiot trying to grab aggro on the rest of the pull while taunting a caster who refuses to move.
Frost Nova
When it's good: Did I miss an enemy or get stunned straight off the pull? Is some nasty little mob running for the group and I'm gouged/stunned/feared/silenced and unable to taunt? Pop it under those circumstances and you're gold. Did you Frost Nova a runner? Thank you. No, seriously.
Why tanks hate it: From a tank's perspective, Frost Nova is much like knockbacks in that it plays havoc with positioning. For the period where the mobs are completely rooted, there is nothing we can do to position or reposition the pull in order to avoid damage or respond to a nearby patrol. It's also not unusual for a Frost Nova'd pull to have multiple enemies scattered just out of melee range of each other, with me in the middle desperately trying to convince all of them to hate me more than you while you're charging up a giant Blizzard or Flamestrike. The rest of the DPS, seeing you unload, has started doing the exact same thing. I blew Challenging Roar the last time you pulled that stunt, and it ain't up now. Good luck!
Worst of all is a mage who pulls aggro and then panics and frost novas the mob/s. Not only is the pull now likely to be split between two groups of mobs, but a rooted mob will instantly aggro whoever's next to them regardless of threat, and that's a great way to get someone who wasn't doing anything wrong killed.
Any ability that allows you to hit a mob right after I've pulled it but before it reaches me
When it's awesome: Pretty much never, unless you are a hunter pulling something into a trap.
Why tanks hate it: The moment I see a DPS hack/shoot/cast at a mob while the pull is still on its way over, I know I'm in for a long run. Not every mob pack is positioned in a way that makes it possible for me to charge in and build threat without aggroing more packs, in which case I will stand at range and pull it. I will have a limited amount of threat on the mob on whom I slapped a Feral Faerie Fire, but on everything else, the only thing that makes them hate me more than you is the fact that I just made their buddy mad. If you so much as sneeze in their direction, they will immediately turn your way and try to kill you. While I know it's annoying to wait 2-3 seconds while the pull runs my way before you start DPS, I die a little inside when the pull is a disorganized mess and not a neatly-arranged little clump in a spot that's convenient for everyone and easily AoE'd in the event that AoE is possible.
Behavior like this makes me not want to PUG as a tank through the Dungeon Finder. Please -- help me help you!
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Instances






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 17)
elvendude Jan 12th 2010 8:11PM
Army of the Dead.
Yes yes yes!
Particularly in three situations for me:
Any time (that's ANY time) I'm tanking.
When I'm healing or dps'ing on dragon mechanic fights.
Any time I'm melee dps'ing.
I hate that spell.
elvendude Jan 12th 2010 8:16PM
RE: Any ability that allows you to hit a mob right after I've pulled it but before it reaches me
I would like to add Misdirect to the appropriate times. My hunter's misdirect is macro's to my focus, which is always the tank. And I never unload on a fight without popping MD.
Joel Jan 12th 2010 8:18PM
It is probably not possible to put into words how much I hate AotD. And my main is a DK... Where it sits on Bartender as the only spell I actually have to mouse down and click.
On my Healadin (which is quickly gearing to become my main) I have a macro for my PUGs that have more than one DK in them.
"Hi, I'll be your healer tonight. DKs, please remove Army of the Dead from your hotkeys. If it is cast at any time in such a way that people are taking unnecessary damage, I will not be healing you. For the rest of the instance."
Yea, it's snarky, but about 80% of the DKs I've run with like to spin bosses around randomly.
chipersoft Jan 12th 2010 8:25PM
And I'd just like to add that Warrior and Bear tanks especially hate this because if the mob isn't hitting us, we're not generating rage. If we're not generating rage, odds are we're rage starved and not able to hit the target with anything that could produce threat, so when all your little ghoul friends are dead it is entirely likely that we wont be the next target on the threat table.
Additionally, a huge part of druid mitigation comes from a shield buff that we get by getting crits. If we don't have rage, we don't get as many crits, and we wont have that shield.
This is why whenever some idiot DK pops AoD, I just make sure I'm swinging at the target and sit there to build up my rage pool so that once those damned things are dead I can immediately hit the target as hard and fast as possible.
Saint Jan 12th 2010 8:27PM
As an Unholy DK fanboy I love to pop AotD every chance I get.
Which, unfortunately, isn't all that much. It's too much of a pain in the ass for the tanks and healers to make it worth using in most situations.
How to fix this? Make the AotD ghouls have a pet bar with two options: "Taunt" which can be set to auto-cast and "Dismiss".
The issues are simple: The taunt they use is very, very annoying to tanks. I've tanked and had a DK pull Army out and it's just plain frustrating. The problem is that if you pull your Army out at the wrong time they just have to stick around you for almost a minute. A dismiss button would greatly help the times when you didn't think pulling Army out all the way through.
Also, to my fellow DKs, when the rare time comes to pop Army, wait until you have Bloodlust on you if you can. Bloodlust really, really makes the Army ghouls a lot better.
Koogle Jan 12th 2010 8:40PM
Army of The Dead always gives me a quick panic attack
Scenario:
"Man, I've got this under control, high threat, tons of rage, no worries--OMG WTF I lost threat, how the fuck did I do that? I'm a terrible tank...oh wait...AotD..." whistles
Veronia Jan 12th 2010 8:50PM
The fix is very simple, if Blizzard would only make it. AotD only taunts if the casting DK is in Frost presence. Otherwise, they just do regular damage.
komamura Jan 12th 2010 8:51PM
As a feral kitty, pretty much every use of AotD makes me want to cry. 10K shreds become You must be behind to use that. I more or less refuse to attack a boss untill there dead
dracoamericanus9 Jan 12th 2010 8:53PM
I only use AotD during the black knight fight, 2nd stage. Any other time I could use it, I don't cause I usually don't even use DnD to make sure I don't steal aggro from the tank. Sure, it lowers my DPS output but it keeps the fight under the tanks control.
Tom Jan 12th 2010 9:46PM
As a prot warrior those rage-stealing gouls can be a nightmare at the wrong time.
But my most hated ability has to be 'Path of Frost'!
Why must i have 2-3 of these effects in a heroic? There's no water! My screen fills up white and blue and my speakers constantly blare "BOOSH!"
Saint Jan 12th 2010 9:57PM
@Veronia: That's an even better idea, making them only Taunt when the DK is in Frost presence. Requires one less pet bar. There really should be a dismiss button for them though. It really sucks when you pull them out for one phase and they stick around for the second and things get sticky.
Cataca Jan 12th 2010 9:58PM
How I imagine myself when I use Army
http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/funny-pictures-squirrel-has-an-army.jpg
ozreece7 Jan 12th 2010 10:03PM
i very rarely use AOTD in heroics but it got good use today. Our server is misbehaving with serverside lag and the tank got caught by it when attempting to loot. He couldnt do anything, see anything, and was rooted to the spot. Because we were in H VH the mobs kept coming out of the portals. Not having a tanking set, (i have 2 other tank characters) but being the only plate wearer besides our incapacitated warrior tank, i switched to frost presence and started up AOTD before the next portal. by the time the mobs appeared the army was ready and the fight was easy. By that time the warrior was able to get moving again, which was helpful as the next fight was the 2nd boss. Would really have been annoyed if we had wiped and had to redo VH all over again.
mike Jan 12th 2010 11:01PM
I've never been much of a tank, but it seems to me 50% or more of dps DKs in 5 mans don't comprehend that Death and Decay gives them a crapload of threat, which as a dps, they really don't need.
loop_not_defined Jan 12th 2010 11:06PM
You know, as a Prot Warrior, seeing someone pop AotD on a boss usually makes me panic. I have to keep reminding myself, though, that if those little guys are able to Taunt the boss off of me, I can Taunt him back when they're all dead.
I do feel sorry for the melee that can't stay behind the boss (to avoid Parry, and also for Rogues/Ferals), but using AotD on a boss with directional AoE abilities will earn the DK a polite talking-to. If he's snotty about it, it'll earn him a vote-kick. This has yet to be an issue, however.
mesoforte Jan 12th 2010 11:37PM
I've had a DK pop Army on the last boss of UK. And they died for it. :\ Luckily they were the only melee, I'd hate to wipe anywhere in that dungeon.
Sehvekah Jan 13th 2010 12:17AM
As a Rogue who doesn't have a tank alt, doesn't try to tank(though if the tank dies and the boss is low enough, I'll pop evasion and do what little I can), and TotTs the tank at every opportunity, I have to say, I really Hate Army of the Dead.
I hate getting tail-swiped, cleaved or taking AoE hits the tank should be eating because someone decided to play Spin the Dragon. I hate the fact that any aggro I pass to the tank via TotT is completely wasted because those fucking zombies will just taunt it off them, and each other. I hate sound of Zombies I Can Not Stab, it's just unnatural. Zombies are for stabbin', but nooooooo, DKs had to be special gods damned cookie-cutter snowflakes and mess that up! I hate having to pop a repair bot, rez the healer and(if I have one) drop a feast for everyone after the inevitable wipe just because *someone* didn't like their E-Penis-per-second ranking.
Yeah, it does make a passable "Oh SHIT!" button(better than Vanish in most cases, really), but I just wish people would realize that's what it's supposed to be, "Oh SHIT" not "I WIN".
kabshiel Jan 13th 2010 12:49AM
My favorite is when DKs pop Army of the Dead on Devourer of Souls. Healers looooove that.
Vladeon Jan 13th 2010 2:10AM
There are only two places that I can think of where AotD is a good idea. First, on the second phase of the BK when he does the same thing to you. it keeps the BK's ghouls off the healer and allows the tank to wail on the BK. The second place is on the approach to the final boss in H CoS. there are two streetways that are filled with undead. the first one is not so bad, but the second one has all of the nasty ones right in one spot. AotD right there and it makes things a lot easier.
Noctiluca Jan 13th 2010 3:29AM
@mike - wrong. Death and Decay causes no additional threat (outside of Frost Presence) than any other classes AoE spells.