Abilities I usually wish didn't exist in 5-mans

Not all tanks will have the same degree of irritation with all of the following skills (for example, I play a druid, and because bears don't have a ranged silence, a knockback on a caster mob is much more likely to annoy me than, say, a death knight tank), but I promise you that they've all been mentioned by my tanking colleagues as abilities with a high chance of blowing a pull.
Thunderstorm, Typhoon, and Blast Wave
Some of you may recall that I have written on the subject of knockbacks before. I wasn't really fond of them in 5-mans then, and I'm not really fond of them now.
When they're awesome: If you're knocking something toward a tank, knocking a loose mob away from the healer, or you're a boomkin and Typhoon is the only way you have to interrupt, say, the Ghostly Priest's heal in heroic Halls of Reflection, then a knockback can be at least be helpful. I'm not going to lie and say that the annoyance factor will vanish, but I will grudgingly concede that you're using it for a good reason.
Why tanks hate them: I don't build aggro on stuff I can't hit. Beyond that, the number of players who stop and think about the results of blowing caster or ranged mobs away from a tank is vanishingly small. If I've line-of-sighted a pull and dragged the mobs into a narrow area, it's because I want them in that specific position, and line-of-sight is the only way I have to force them to come into tankable range. If you knock them away from me, a ranged mob is going to stand wherever you just put them and keep trying to kill me, and I can't silence casters to force them to mosey on over. My only silence is also a stun, which doesn't help the positioning issue. While other tanks can deal with caster mobs a little more easily than bears can, there's no guarantee that their interrupt is off cooldown or that they'll be able to silence multiple enemies to get them to move again.
The bottom line is that, even deployed correctly, knockbacks play havoc with where the tank actually wants the mobs.
Divine Storm and Bladestorm
When they're awesome: At any point after I've had the chance to beat on the mobs for longer than 1-2 seconds.
Why tanks hate them: Because that never happens.
Army of the Dead
When it's awesome: Did the healer disconnect? Is this phase 2 or 3 of the Black Knight in Trial of the Champion or...well, pretty much at any point in heroic HoR's trash waves? Is a pull going to hell, I'm about to die, and the healer's out of commission? Not only is that a great time for AotD, but I'll also thank you afterwards for having the foresight to pop it in these circumstances.
Why tanks hate it: On any boss or mob with a frontal cone attack, cleave, or tail swipe, AotD is usually more trouble than it's worth. The enemy will just keep spinning around to target and stomp ghouls on all sides of them, which means that the mob is basically uncontrollable for as long as the ghouls are still up. On any boss encounter or trash pull where the mobs being uncontrollable is a highly undesirable occurrence, please rethink pulling out the little beasties. Healers will also hate you for popping Army on, say, Keristrasza and getting them tail-swiped out of the party's range.
Feign Death
Why it's awesome: Because it exists.
Why tanks hate it: Because Murphy's Law dictates that the people who actually need to use it are the ones who don't seem to have it hotkeyed.
Death Grip
When it's awesome: There are a lot of places in Wrath dungeons where it is not particularly convenient (or sometimes even possible) to line-of-sight a pull. If you Death Grip a caster or ranged mob over to the group for me -- say, an Ahn'kahar Spell Flinger charging up a Shadow Blast -- I will be your bestest buddy for the rest of the run.
Why tanks hate it: The odds of your running across a DPS death knight who uses Death Grip correctly seems to occur at a rate of around 1%. Far more common is the DPS DK who impatiently pulls the next group before you do, but lacks the sense to at least pull a caster mob while doing it. The inevitable result is a melee enemy beating on the death knight while I run around like a giant idiot trying to grab aggro on the rest of the pull while taunting a caster who refuses to move.
Frost Nova
When it's good: Did I miss an enemy or get stunned straight off the pull? Is some nasty little mob running for the group and I'm gouged/stunned/feared/silenced and unable to taunt? Pop it under those circumstances and you're gold. Did you Frost Nova a runner? Thank you. No, seriously.
Why tanks hate it: From a tank's perspective, Frost Nova is much like knockbacks in that it plays havoc with positioning. For the period where the mobs are completely rooted, there is nothing we can do to position or reposition the pull in order to avoid damage or respond to a nearby patrol. It's also not unusual for a Frost Nova'd pull to have multiple enemies scattered just out of melee range of each other, with me in the middle desperately trying to convince all of them to hate me more than you while you're charging up a giant Blizzard or Flamestrike. The rest of the DPS, seeing you unload, has started doing the exact same thing. I blew Challenging Roar the last time you pulled that stunt, and it ain't up now. Good luck!
Worst of all is a mage who pulls aggro and then panics and frost novas the mob/s. Not only is the pull now likely to be split between two groups of mobs, but a rooted mob will instantly aggro whoever's next to them regardless of threat, and that's a great way to get someone who wasn't doing anything wrong killed.
Any ability that allows you to hit a mob right after I've pulled it but before it reaches me
When it's awesome: Pretty much never, unless you are a hunter pulling something into a trap.
Why tanks hate it: The moment I see a DPS hack/shoot/cast at a mob while the pull is still on its way over, I know I'm in for a long run. Not every mob pack is positioned in a way that makes it possible for me to charge in and build threat without aggroing more packs, in which case I will stand at range and pull it. I will have a limited amount of threat on the mob on whom I slapped a Feral Faerie Fire, but on everything else, the only thing that makes them hate me more than you is the fact that I just made their buddy mad. If you so much as sneeze in their direction, they will immediately turn your way and try to kill you. While I know it's annoying to wait 2-3 seconds while the pull runs my way before you start DPS, I die a little inside when the pull is a disorganized mess and not a neatly-arranged little clump in a spot that's convenient for everyone and easily AoE'd in the event that AoE is possible.
Behavior like this makes me not want to PUG as a tank through the Dungeon Finder. Please -- help me help you!
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Instances
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Reader Comments (Page 17 of 17)
Malkeinu Jan 14th 2010 12:13PM
Yes hunter pets too! And there are also a few (not many) who do not know to turn off their pet's taunt ability. Same for locks. Not that they ever pull threat, but I can see there meter jump way up every once in a while and it scares me.
And also, has anyone else noticed since the last patch that when you give a pally buff to a warrior it also buffs hunter pets? It's supposed to be a class buff, and I find it strange and sometimes annoying when certain warriors need kings but a pet needs might. Is that a bug?
Skadja Jan 14th 2010 12:47PM
As a Blood Tank, on an AoE pull that isn't in VH or something (where DnD goes up early) my initial rotation looks like this:
-- 0 sec: DnD: 3 runes (bfu) used
-- 1.5 sec: Icy Touch: 1 frost rune used
-- 3 sec: Plague Strike: 1 unholy rune used
-- 4.5 sec: Pestilence: 1 blood rune used
-- 10 sec: DnD runes (bfu) off CD, DnD ends.
From the time I hit Pestilence (4.5 seconds in) until the time my first 3 runes come off of CD, we're dealing with 5.5 seconds of rune deadtime. I can deathgrip, I can taunt, I can whack an escapee with a white attack. If you're lucky, I have Empower Rune Weapon up - it's on a 5 minute CD. Other than that, you are SooL for a while if you pull multiple mobs off me in those 5.5 seconds (or worse, before they even start).
That's not to say don't AoE at all, the ticking damage, extra DnD threat + frost presence is usually enough. After Pestilence goes out, you're gold.
The problem comes with the guy who unloads with blizzard or another huge, ranged AoE the instant I throw down DnD. Now I have a choice (assuming no Empower Rune Weapon):
I can proceed to Pestilence as usual and hope that my diseases + the mobs running out of your AoE (unless you're an Spriest) make up for the fact that they've also run out of my DnD while I'm busy applying diseases to one. 5.5 seconds later, I can Blood Boil as Death and Decay ends and its runes come off of CD. But as the diseases take 3 seconds to tick...you're probably out of luck if I'm using them to reestablish, and not maintain, aggro.
Or I can curse silently here at my computer, throw out an unmodified (I haven't thrown Pestilence - and can't afford to wait 3 seconds for a tick in any case) Blood Boil and pray that the smallish, one-time, but instant damage is just enough to keep the mobs in my DnD one...tick...longer as I furiously tab-target and whack them. 5.5 seconds later I can use pestilence, another unmodified bloodboil, or heart strike depending on the situation. This is actually more likely to save you, but at the risk of making my overall hold weaker in case anyone else gets any ideas or you pick up where you started.
Please, wait 5 seconds or so for a DK tank (at least Blood) to establish AoE agg before going to town and making those lovely yellow numbers. Assist/ToTT/MD for the 4.5 seconds until Pestilence goes out, then go to town. A blood DK can be your best friend on Bosses - by all means unload on that boss, I can handle it. But AoE, while certainly not impossibly difficult, is a little more tenuous.
Capra Jan 14th 2010 4:36PM
As a tank, I pretty much agree with everything. Getting people who have aggro to run TO the tank is like trying clean your mirror with peanut butter.
Arawn Jan 14th 2010 4:39PM
I wish that druid thunderstorm ability didn't exist, because I can't actually see anything going on when it's happening.
sporteeee Jan 15th 2010 9:24AM
As both a pally and warrior (and soon DK) tank, I can't agree more about DK's using AotD and DG wrong, DPS running away from the tank, Rogues that don't know how to use TotT, and hunters that forgot they learned MD....
BUT through the first 4 pages I read, you've missed my biggest complaint. Typhoon. Knockback. On a group. 'nuff said.
(and as a tank, my solution for morons is to kick them before I pull the last boss of an instance - it was so satisfying to kick a rogue in blues that kept pulling mobs before me without TotT.)
On the converse side, when I run with guildies, the healer pulls....
Kell Jan 17th 2010 8:17AM
MD is good in most cases....
when its bad,
i just land in an instance that i have pugged and the hunter notices i have 48k hp buffed, and immediately runs off towards a mob and MDs one towards me, pulling a whole pack, and im probably still on the loading screen, zone in finally and there is mobs going everywhere...
in short, tanks, and only tanks pull, and pull when they are ready, not when you think we are mister hunters and your crazy MD
ragnos Jan 18th 2010 9:06AM
the threat modifier on D&D is 1.9x normal threat, however most dk's i know have the subversion talent in the first tier of blood which increaces crit of some main abilities by 9% and reduces threat by 20%. so that is a threat of about 1.5x on the ability which may seem like alot when its doing about 2.5ktps + diseases, then you realize the diseases are only at 80% threat as well and then that makes it about 3-4k tps, not too difficult to manage as it usually about 8 seconds or so in before the threat reaches that high. D&D, IT, PS, pest+2secs for pest tick.
also a note, and something i personally noticed when tanking on my dk. if AotD is on a mob, and you wait a few seconds before taunting[if you understand the mechanics of taunt] your threat will be raised to the current AotD threat level, meaning that when army falls off if the mob is still alive, you will have about 200-300k+ extra threat lead on the mob. omen is great at viewing this. it still sucks for AoE tanking [unless u use a aoe taunt a decent ways through this] but it might help if say someone pops army on UP final boss, where it would die before the fight ended or in HoR before they died
dragonlordged Mar 25th 2010 12:49PM
I have a raid-ready enhancement shaman and a 5-man tank. The biggest pet peeve I run into on my tank is shamans who use Earth Elemental totem. That's just as bad as turning on Growl, but apparently none of the shamans know this.