Abilities I usually wish didn't exist in 5-mans

Not all tanks will have the same degree of irritation with all of the following skills (for example, I play a druid, and because bears don't have a ranged silence, a knockback on a caster mob is much more likely to annoy me than, say, a death knight tank), but I promise you that they've all been mentioned by my tanking colleagues as abilities with a high chance of blowing a pull.
Thunderstorm, Typhoon, and Blast Wave
Some of you may recall that I have written on the subject of knockbacks before. I wasn't really fond of them in 5-mans then, and I'm not really fond of them now.
When they're awesome: If you're knocking something toward a tank, knocking a loose mob away from the healer, or you're a boomkin and Typhoon is the only way you have to interrupt, say, the Ghostly Priest's heal in heroic Halls of Reflection, then a knockback can be at least be helpful. I'm not going to lie and say that the annoyance factor will vanish, but I will grudgingly concede that you're using it for a good reason.
Why tanks hate them: I don't build aggro on stuff I can't hit. Beyond that, the number of players who stop and think about the results of blowing caster or ranged mobs away from a tank is vanishingly small. If I've line-of-sighted a pull and dragged the mobs into a narrow area, it's because I want them in that specific position, and line-of-sight is the only way I have to force them to come into tankable range. If you knock them away from me, a ranged mob is going to stand wherever you just put them and keep trying to kill me, and I can't silence casters to force them to mosey on over. My only silence is also a stun, which doesn't help the positioning issue. While other tanks can deal with caster mobs a little more easily than bears can, there's no guarantee that their interrupt is off cooldown or that they'll be able to silence multiple enemies to get them to move again.
The bottom line is that, even deployed correctly, knockbacks play havoc with where the tank actually wants the mobs.
Divine Storm and Bladestorm
When they're awesome: At any point after I've had the chance to beat on the mobs for longer than 1-2 seconds.
Why tanks hate them: Because that never happens.
Army of the Dead
When it's awesome: Did the healer disconnect? Is this phase 2 or 3 of the Black Knight in Trial of the Champion or...well, pretty much at any point in heroic HoR's trash waves? Is a pull going to hell, I'm about to die, and the healer's out of commission? Not only is that a great time for AotD, but I'll also thank you afterwards for having the foresight to pop it in these circumstances.
Why tanks hate it: On any boss or mob with a frontal cone attack, cleave, or tail swipe, AotD is usually more trouble than it's worth. The enemy will just keep spinning around to target and stomp ghouls on all sides of them, which means that the mob is basically uncontrollable for as long as the ghouls are still up. On any boss encounter or trash pull where the mobs being uncontrollable is a highly undesirable occurrence, please rethink pulling out the little beasties. Healers will also hate you for popping Army on, say, Keristrasza and getting them tail-swiped out of the party's range.
Feign Death
Why it's awesome: Because it exists.
Why tanks hate it: Because Murphy's Law dictates that the people who actually need to use it are the ones who don't seem to have it hotkeyed.
Death Grip
When it's awesome: There are a lot of places in Wrath dungeons where it is not particularly convenient (or sometimes even possible) to line-of-sight a pull. If you Death Grip a caster or ranged mob over to the group for me -- say, an Ahn'kahar Spell Flinger charging up a Shadow Blast -- I will be your bestest buddy for the rest of the run.
Why tanks hate it: The odds of your running across a DPS death knight who uses Death Grip correctly seems to occur at a rate of around 1%. Far more common is the DPS DK who impatiently pulls the next group before you do, but lacks the sense to at least pull a caster mob while doing it. The inevitable result is a melee enemy beating on the death knight while I run around like a giant idiot trying to grab aggro on the rest of the pull while taunting a caster who refuses to move.
Frost Nova
When it's good: Did I miss an enemy or get stunned straight off the pull? Is some nasty little mob running for the group and I'm gouged/stunned/feared/silenced and unable to taunt? Pop it under those circumstances and you're gold. Did you Frost Nova a runner? Thank you. No, seriously.
Why tanks hate it: From a tank's perspective, Frost Nova is much like knockbacks in that it plays havoc with positioning. For the period where the mobs are completely rooted, there is nothing we can do to position or reposition the pull in order to avoid damage or respond to a nearby patrol. It's also not unusual for a Frost Nova'd pull to have multiple enemies scattered just out of melee range of each other, with me in the middle desperately trying to convince all of them to hate me more than you while you're charging up a giant Blizzard or Flamestrike. The rest of the DPS, seeing you unload, has started doing the exact same thing. I blew Challenging Roar the last time you pulled that stunt, and it ain't up now. Good luck!
Worst of all is a mage who pulls aggro and then panics and frost novas the mob/s. Not only is the pull now likely to be split between two groups of mobs, but a rooted mob will instantly aggro whoever's next to them regardless of threat, and that's a great way to get someone who wasn't doing anything wrong killed.
Any ability that allows you to hit a mob right after I've pulled it but before it reaches me
When it's awesome: Pretty much never, unless you are a hunter pulling something into a trap.
Why tanks hate it: The moment I see a DPS hack/shoot/cast at a mob while the pull is still on its way over, I know I'm in for a long run. Not every mob pack is positioned in a way that makes it possible for me to charge in and build threat without aggroing more packs, in which case I will stand at range and pull it. I will have a limited amount of threat on the mob on whom I slapped a Feral Faerie Fire, but on everything else, the only thing that makes them hate me more than you is the fact that I just made their buddy mad. If you so much as sneeze in their direction, they will immediately turn your way and try to kill you. While I know it's annoying to wait 2-3 seconds while the pull runs my way before you start DPS, I die a little inside when the pull is a disorganized mess and not a neatly-arranged little clump in a spot that's convenient for everyone and easily AoE'd in the event that AoE is possible.
Behavior like this makes me not want to PUG as a tank through the Dungeon Finder. Please -- help me help you!
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Instances
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Reader Comments (Page 3 of 17)
Damarlen Jan 29th 2010 12:45AM
There is one time, and one time ONLY to use Army: When the tank says "Pop Army". If I want Army popped, I will tell the DK when I want it popped. Otherwise, when I suddenly lose aggro, I will have a heartattack and blow all my CD's trying to reestablish aggro before I realize what went wrong.
My main is a Pally Tank, I have tanked the first two bosses of ICC 10 with him, and I have just as much trouble with Army as druids and warriors do. I lose all aggro to them, and the majority of my mana regeneration comes from blocks/dodges/parries and incoming heals. Yes, I have Divine Plea up all of the time, but it is not nearly enough mana regeneration compared to what I use. I need to be attacked and be healed to keep mana up, and a paladin without mana is just some guy standing there in metal underwear.
Also, kudos to the Deathknight who will Deathgrip a loose mob off the healer. I totally agree with him (even when I was in Retribution Spec this was true) that DPS is expendable. Not that I want them to die, if I do my job right they will all live through the whole instance...but if I (or any other tank) messed up, and it kills a DPS, we are probably still ok. If it kills the healer, we are generally all dead. DPS die from time to time, that is why we have 3 in a 5-man. And this was true when I was a dps as well. More than once I have died saving a healer, and I have never regretted it. I never do, never have, never will. I don't really care how often I die, as long as the whole party or raid does not wipe. And it is pleasant and refreshing to see someone else with the same attitude.
Lazyturtle Jan 13th 2010 8:39PM
This is a pretty handy article for DPSers...not that any of us can read.
Kvothe Jan 12th 2010 8:11PM
Those who use Divine Storm and Bladestorm are probably capable of tanking any non-ICC 5 man pretty easily though...
Nadia Jan 12th 2010 8:17PM
If they are capable of tanking it and want to tank, they should have signed up as a tank, and unchecked DPS.
The person who is designated tank because he signed up as a tank is the one the healer expects to heal.
If someone isn't designated the tank, I assume they're not tanking.
They shouldn't try to while someone else is doing it already and it's working. That's just confusing , rude, and makes the instance more difficult.
Goolie Jan 12th 2010 8:23PM
...and no one cares that you can tank the non ICC 5 man.
What most people care about is a nice proper run where everyone plays the roll of their class properly.
If all of these mightier than thou, pull before the tank, non-tank tanks would just roll a tank and play a tank, LFG queues for everyone would be instant.
kalatash Jan 12th 2010 9:09PM
I actually healed a Ret-Tank earlier today. As in, he was specced Retribution, signed up to tank, but was also wearing tank gear besides his weapon.* It was an interesting run, since I had to heal more than I usually have to for that instance, but he knew what to do. Only wiped once, and that was because I accidentally fell off a cliff.
*His weapon was also the Bone Arbiter axe, which also made me feel good about his skills/gear level.
Mr. Tastix Jan 12th 2010 9:54PM
I'm tempted to try tanking with my Prot/ret spec (PVP spec) for shits and giggles.
If you see a Ret Paladin not wait at least 1.5 seconds before using Divine Storm (immediately after a pull) then they're not using the priority system right. Whilst it is true that Ret Paladins have no set rotation (FCFS) we DO have a priority system.
Judgement should always be the first attack used when a pull has been initiation (HoW only priorities over Judgement when the mob is below 20% HP). If somebody is using Divine Storm, even in an AoE situation, then they're DOING IT WRONG.
I know this is for tanks but I'll put this here for all you Ret Paladins to see. If you use Divine Storm as your first move when I'm tanking I will punt you out of the dungeon verbally.
HoW > Judgement > CS > DS > Consecrate > Exorcism > Holy Wrath > Divine Plea | basic rotation
Judgement > HoW > CS > DS > Consecrate > Exorcism > Holy Wrath > Divine Plea | 2pieces T9
Judgement > DS > HoW > CS > Consecrate > Exorcism > Holy Wrath > Divine Plea | 2pc T9 and 2pc T10
Judgement > DS > CS > HoW > Consecrate > Exorcism > Holy Wrath > Divine Plea | 4pieces T10
Now, if a DK uses AotD? I'll just freaken punt you. As a tank I AM a control freak. I HATE losing aggro, it's like having a freaken haemorrhage when you lose aggro on a boss then notice it's because of FREAKEN GHOULS.
Zidell Jan 12th 2010 8:12PM
I say druids have it the worst the only on here that really affects me while tanking on my pally is the AotD is that ever a nightmare since they'll just pull off of you.
Fallacy Jan 12th 2010 8:14PM
As someone currently leveling a frost mage solely through low level dungeons with the LFG tool, all I have to say is:
/blush
Pyromelter Jan 12th 2010 8:42PM
Just remember: If you get a mob aggroing toward you, blink INTO where the tank is, get the mob that's aggroed onto you in range, then hit frost nova -- voila, tank can get aggro again, everyone profits.
kunukia Jan 12th 2010 8:46PM
This.
drtimothyleary Jan 12th 2010 9:43PM
Agreed.
Dameblanche Jan 13th 2010 6:59AM
I wouldn't be too worried about criticism towards mages in this article. Methinks Sir Robert's remarks are fine when you are dealing with very skilled tanks who have everything under control, but in the world of pugs this is not always the case. Plus with the death of CC and the improved aggro abilities of tanks there seems to have vanished something else: the notion that the tank is not the only one who should look after the healer. People are mainly focused on their dps meters and god forbid that a melee would run away from the boss for a few seconds to peel adds off the healer or that a hunter would remember that there is such a thing as a trap you can put in front of a healer.
Blast wave and frost nova are the sole reasons why I as a clothy can successfully keep the healer out of harms way in fights with a lot of adds dropping out of the sky, like the last bosses in Azjol Nerub and TOC. I'm always next to the healer and if a mob has been beating on him for a few seconds and I don't see the tank move: I'll blast wave and kite like mad.
And fun fact: you only have to do this once and you are automatically on top of the food chain when it comes to which dps to heal first. Is it the blind DK who is pounding away with 5k dps or the nice mage who can barely produce 3.5k but keeps the baddies busy? You betcha.
Tomah Jan 13th 2010 9:13AM
If you use Blast Wave and Frost Nova effectively, intelligently, and look after my pocket healer, I will look after you. You will be my favorite DPS this run, and if I see you in another random dungeon, I will be happy. We will be BFF.
If you typhoon those mobs before they hit me and then let loose with hurricane, and root the biggest, hardest hitting mob next to the healer, every time a mob is on you, my taunt will be on cooldown. I will purposefully let you die as often as I can. Even if that means waiting until you're second in threat and accidentally bubbling.
havitech Jan 12th 2010 8:16PM
By far my biggest frustration in heroics is the apparent complete lack of understanding the /assist mechanic.
To all DPS everywhere, ever: ASSIST THE TANK. There is no way Swipe/Thunderclap/whatever is going to hold aggro against your focused fire.
Erthshade Jan 12th 2010 8:27PM
As a tank, I'd rather people /don't/ assist me. I will be switching targets pretty rapidly to make sure I have sufficient threat on all of them, and spending a little extra time on the one I've marked with a skull. ALL HAIL THE MIGHTY MARKS.
That said, Army of the Dead is #1 on my list of hated mechanics. Why yes, do indeed please completely remove my control of the situation and ability to generate rage and threat Mr. Idiot DK Who Is Making A Hopeless Bid To Top Meters. I'm sure the healer will thank you as well when they're done running back after getting cleaved/breathed/deathbeamed from a boss that's out of control.
chipersoft Jan 12th 2010 8:28PM
yes yes and yes, I cannot stress how much of a difference this makes. Even if it's an AoE pull, I'm gonna be getting higher threat on my target then I will on the others.
Alanid Jan 12th 2010 8:31PM
THIS so much! Whenever I have say halls of lightning (because I've ran it so much) I always run in and make sure I have aggro on 2 of the mobs but the other 1/2 are on mainly aoe alone, and theres always a ranged dps like "IMMA ATTACK THAT ONE!!!1!!"
And another time on 1st boss of HoL, he was charged up, the 2 dk dps's didnt wait for me to get aggro, they died straight away, so me the healer and a mage managed to go it alone, has really made me insecure about DK's in general.
Banthis Jan 12th 2010 8:54PM
For all the hunters that I run with (as I have one as well), I suggest setting the tank as the focus. That way you can have a misdirect macro that prioritizes them as well as replacing the default "assist" key with a macro that assists your focus first.
Yes, you do have to watch how you use it when the tank is target switching, but overall it's the best way I've found to handle stuff.
This is also incredibly helpful when doing target switching fights as you can set your focus to the tank you need to switch to or from to speed up target switching.
However, especially for hunters, make sure you have the attack on assist option turned off in the options. That's a good way to piss off tanks.
Arbolamante Jan 12th 2010 9:12PM
I keep the tank on focus and place target of focus right in the middle of my screen, far from anything else, where I can always see it. This generally keeps me from going after the wrong thing, but I do have to pay attention to make sure the tank isn't switching around to keep group aggro. What would really really help? Marks. Mark what you want focused fired, and even idiot dps might get the point. Maybe.