Abilities I usually wish didn't exist in 5-mans

Not all tanks will have the same degree of irritation with all of the following skills (for example, I play a druid, and because bears don't have a ranged silence, a knockback on a caster mob is much more likely to annoy me than, say, a death knight tank), but I promise you that they've all been mentioned by my tanking colleagues as abilities with a high chance of blowing a pull.
Thunderstorm, Typhoon, and Blast Wave
Some of you may recall that I have written on the subject of knockbacks before. I wasn't really fond of them in 5-mans then, and I'm not really fond of them now.
When they're awesome: If you're knocking something toward a tank, knocking a loose mob away from the healer, or you're a boomkin and Typhoon is the only way you have to interrupt, say, the Ghostly Priest's heal in heroic Halls of Reflection, then a knockback can be at least be helpful. I'm not going to lie and say that the annoyance factor will vanish, but I will grudgingly concede that you're using it for a good reason.
Why tanks hate them: I don't build aggro on stuff I can't hit. Beyond that, the number of players who stop and think about the results of blowing caster or ranged mobs away from a tank is vanishingly small. If I've line-of-sighted a pull and dragged the mobs into a narrow area, it's because I want them in that specific position, and line-of-sight is the only way I have to force them to come into tankable range. If you knock them away from me, a ranged mob is going to stand wherever you just put them and keep trying to kill me, and I can't silence casters to force them to mosey on over. My only silence is also a stun, which doesn't help the positioning issue. While other tanks can deal with caster mobs a little more easily than bears can, there's no guarantee that their interrupt is off cooldown or that they'll be able to silence multiple enemies to get them to move again.
The bottom line is that, even deployed correctly, knockbacks play havoc with where the tank actually wants the mobs.
Divine Storm and Bladestorm
When they're awesome: At any point after I've had the chance to beat on the mobs for longer than 1-2 seconds.
Why tanks hate them: Because that never happens.
Army of the Dead
When it's awesome: Did the healer disconnect? Is this phase 2 or 3 of the Black Knight in Trial of the Champion or...well, pretty much at any point in heroic HoR's trash waves? Is a pull going to hell, I'm about to die, and the healer's out of commission? Not only is that a great time for AotD, but I'll also thank you afterwards for having the foresight to pop it in these circumstances.
Why tanks hate it: On any boss or mob with a frontal cone attack, cleave, or tail swipe, AotD is usually more trouble than it's worth. The enemy will just keep spinning around to target and stomp ghouls on all sides of them, which means that the mob is basically uncontrollable for as long as the ghouls are still up. On any boss encounter or trash pull where the mobs being uncontrollable is a highly undesirable occurrence, please rethink pulling out the little beasties. Healers will also hate you for popping Army on, say, Keristrasza and getting them tail-swiped out of the party's range.
Feign Death
Why it's awesome: Because it exists.
Why tanks hate it: Because Murphy's Law dictates that the people who actually need to use it are the ones who don't seem to have it hotkeyed.
Death Grip
When it's awesome: There are a lot of places in Wrath dungeons where it is not particularly convenient (or sometimes even possible) to line-of-sight a pull. If you Death Grip a caster or ranged mob over to the group for me -- say, an Ahn'kahar Spell Flinger charging up a Shadow Blast -- I will be your bestest buddy for the rest of the run.
Why tanks hate it: The odds of your running across a DPS death knight who uses Death Grip correctly seems to occur at a rate of around 1%. Far more common is the DPS DK who impatiently pulls the next group before you do, but lacks the sense to at least pull a caster mob while doing it. The inevitable result is a melee enemy beating on the death knight while I run around like a giant idiot trying to grab aggro on the rest of the pull while taunting a caster who refuses to move.
Frost Nova
When it's good: Did I miss an enemy or get stunned straight off the pull? Is some nasty little mob running for the group and I'm gouged/stunned/feared/silenced and unable to taunt? Pop it under those circumstances and you're gold. Did you Frost Nova a runner? Thank you. No, seriously.
Why tanks hate it: From a tank's perspective, Frost Nova is much like knockbacks in that it plays havoc with positioning. For the period where the mobs are completely rooted, there is nothing we can do to position or reposition the pull in order to avoid damage or respond to a nearby patrol. It's also not unusual for a Frost Nova'd pull to have multiple enemies scattered just out of melee range of each other, with me in the middle desperately trying to convince all of them to hate me more than you while you're charging up a giant Blizzard or Flamestrike. The rest of the DPS, seeing you unload, has started doing the exact same thing. I blew Challenging Roar the last time you pulled that stunt, and it ain't up now. Good luck!
Worst of all is a mage who pulls aggro and then panics and frost novas the mob/s. Not only is the pull now likely to be split between two groups of mobs, but a rooted mob will instantly aggro whoever's next to them regardless of threat, and that's a great way to get someone who wasn't doing anything wrong killed.
Any ability that allows you to hit a mob right after I've pulled it but before it reaches me
When it's awesome: Pretty much never, unless you are a hunter pulling something into a trap.
Why tanks hate it: The moment I see a DPS hack/shoot/cast at a mob while the pull is still on its way over, I know I'm in for a long run. Not every mob pack is positioned in a way that makes it possible for me to charge in and build threat without aggroing more packs, in which case I will stand at range and pull it. I will have a limited amount of threat on the mob on whom I slapped a Feral Faerie Fire, but on everything else, the only thing that makes them hate me more than you is the fact that I just made their buddy mad. If you so much as sneeze in their direction, they will immediately turn your way and try to kill you. While I know it's annoying to wait 2-3 seconds while the pull runs my way before you start DPS, I die a little inside when the pull is a disorganized mess and not a neatly-arranged little clump in a spot that's convenient for everyone and easily AoE'd in the event that AoE is possible.
Behavior like this makes me not want to PUG as a tank through the Dungeon Finder. Please -- help me help you!
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Instances
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Reader Comments (Page 8 of 17)
Sacul Jan 12th 2010 11:09PM
If i was in a group with 3 of my guild members and we went into random heroic I assume I would still get all the benefits of being in a random group. So if that is true then maybe being the amazing hunter you are you should take a tank, healer, and dps from your guild and you would finish the instance in no time. This saves you from having to deal with the lesser geared tanks and the lesser geared tanks from not being able to handle your dps.
GerardthePriest Jan 13th 2010 12:18AM
I hope you get voted out of groups all the time. For that matter, I hope I end up in a group with you so I can vote to kick you. If you want to set the pace of a run, reroll a class that can tank and STFU.
Pucelle Jan 13th 2010 12:46AM
Oh, for the sake of little green apples: you are exactly the kind of hunter that gives us the name of huntard.
If I was lucky enough to be in a group with you, rest assured that I'd be popping MD on YOU right, left, and centre - followed by a swift votekick to the ass.
May all your repair bills be ruinous.
Dghunter Jan 13th 2010 5:11AM
As a Hunter, I apologize for this behaviour. Please remember that not all the hunters are like this and things like this give the rest of us a bad name.
Scott Jan 13th 2010 11:36AM
If I were tanking, you'd be /kicked so fast not even you could complain...
...jerk
Rifter Jan 13th 2010 1:49PM
Yea, people like you get booted from my group. I will warn a DPS once about setting my pace. Then, I will boot them. Considering how long DPS sit and wait, compared to me waiting as a Tank, if I leave, most people will also boot the DPSer. I am watching my healer, I am watching my DPSers (not just you), and watching my cooldowns. I run a little conservative, since I realize that one wipe, wipes out any speed we gain by pushing things really hard.
As a tank, if you pull before me. I will watch you die, then taunt to get the mob to me. If the healer goes out to keep you alive, I will jump in as well. As a tank, my job is to protect my party. If that includes allowing a DPS to die, well, it has to be done.
Candina@WH Jan 12th 2010 9:22PM
You left out one class of 'things I hate'
AoE Fear mechanics (Psych Scream and Howl of Terror)
Please, for the love of god, don't fear bomb groups of mobs. I mean... really.... when is it EVER a good idea to send the vaguly controlled group of mobs running in all directions (and usually right into the next pack).
I don't care if your dying. DIE. Don't kill us all with your panic reflex.
/rant
But I'm not bitter....
Robert Jan 12th 2010 10:02PM
I had a warrior tank drop a fear bomb once on the first pull in that terrace before Jedoga Shadowseeker. Pulled the whole room and wiped us. When asked why, he responded "it was going to be a wipe anyways." He had accidentally pulled a second group, just like he'd been doing all instance long, making my life as a healer miserable; except this time he fear bombed and pulled five more groups of trash.
Yes, tanks too have abilities I wish didn't exist in five mans.
Malkeinu Jan 12th 2010 9:26PM
As a pally tank, I find most of these annoyances applicable. My least favorite is the warrior who immediately charges/intercepts after I throw my Avenger's Shield for a los or "get the mobs away from the next pack" pull. I've just laid a consecrate and am waiting for the mobs to get to me. But they won't be coming... I'm busy taunting off of the warlock who is raining fire on all of them after the warrior ran in.
Nia Jan 13th 2010 3:45AM
I was waiting to see if anyone would mention this. I am also a pally tank, and the amount of times i've had to tell Warriors not to charge a mob until they get to me is amazing.
Another thing i feel like i'm constantly doing is asking the Hunter the same thing with their pet. Let the mobs get to the damn tank before you send your pet in!!!
Gunder Jan 13th 2010 6:57AM
Yeah I can't get any PUG warrior not to charge before all the mobs are in my consecrate
the worst for this is in FOrge of Souls, I usually end with 4 caster mobs spreaded and no way to silence them (yay 30s cd on avenger's shield)
ryanmillertime Jan 12th 2010 9:24PM
If you are nice to tanks, and tanks aren't getting pissed at you, then they are more likely to run another heroic after that one you were in! you want more tanks in the queue, so don't give them a reason to stop chaining heroics, or you will wait longer for a group!
DarkWalker Jan 13th 2010 12:32PM
Not to mention if you want to chain heroics and are nice to the tank he would be more willing to queue with you as a group, thus granting you his 3s queue wait :)
I gladly do this for DPSers I happen to like if I do have the time to spare.
DrowVampyre Jan 12th 2010 9:25PM
Amen...but you forgot the very worst offender.
FEAR (yes, any kind of fear)
When it's good: Never. Seriously, don't ever use fear in an instance unless the tank's already dead.
Why tanks hate it: Y'know all the stuff Allison said about positioning? Multiply that by 10, because not only is the mob now out of position, it's also running around like a chicken with its head cut off, usually straight toward another pack of mobs that are going to come play...and Mr. Fearer is going to have all the initial aggro on them.
syntyche Jan 12th 2010 9:48PM
Very few exceptions of course. Healing the final boss of Old Kingdom springs to mind as a time I'm begging for my fear cooldown to end.
The Scarlet Mathematician Jan 13th 2010 4:01AM
Never say never.
Hurgan Jan 12th 2010 9:27PM
As someone who tanks low-level instances I think two rogue abilities need to be on the list:
Pick Pockets: It's all fun and games until you miss. Then we gotta take down the mobs that two-shotted you.
Sap: If I want CC, I'll mark CC.
Thankfully, somewhere between 50 and 80, rogues tend to stop doing this.
Arbolamante Jan 12th 2010 9:29PM
CC? There are people who CC? In a five man? I figured Blizz must have banned CC in five mans 'cause I sure as heck haven't seen it in quite a while. There also seem to have been a nerf to interrupts, since a lot of folks don't seem to use them much. :)
nieboh Jan 13th 2010 3:51AM
The only time I pickpocket is when I'm out on my own...never in an instance. The only time I've sapped in an instance is the first two groups of mobs on the hill leading up to the tunnel in PoS. I sapped the humanoid mob, the tank pulled the others down the hill a bit, we opened up and down they all went. The mage even got in on the fun casting polymorph turtle when the sap was breaking. For some reason those pulls always seem to be a bit shaky and I've wiped on them more than once. The little bit of CC made them smooth like butter.
Do you know how long it takes to blow up a CCed mob after all his buddies are dead? Seconds. Do you know how annoying one of those casters can be when they aren't brought into the rest of the group and just sit there pinging away the whole fight? Very.
I'd like to use it on some of the packs in FoS but I'm never allowed to. Tanks seem to just naturally want to race the slow moving stealthed rogue trying desperately to get into position before a pull.
DarkWalker Jan 13th 2010 12:32PM
Good CC does makes a big difference if the group (specially the tank and healer) is either ungeared or inexperienced. The first timethe LFD threw me at H PoS (I was quite ungeared, it must have counted my fishing pole and a few healing pieces I have in the bank when deciding I was ready to tank it) I wasn't lasting any time against those groups. A bit of CC made them manageable.
Nowadays, since now I can last a few seconds against them, I just run up to one of the casters (hitting anything in the way to build aggro), consecrate in the middle of him and throw Avenger Shield into the other caster. Neatly grouped bad guys and AoE fest for the DPSers :)