Encrypted Text: The sun is fine after recent rogue nerfs

If you have been anywhere near a WoW forum or news source in the past week, you'll certainly have heard of the largest rogue nerf seen in WotLK. Hotfixed into the game on the 8th, this nerf hit both Assassination and Combat, though Mutilate was hit far worse. I've seen rogue pundits claim that the sky is falling, and death knight forum posters shouting that the nerf was well deserved. To put it in the words of a forum poster now quoted in Ghostcrawler's signature: "blizzards solution was F) destroy the sun."
A full 5% nerf to Hunger for Blood is pretty simple to model: it's a 5% nerf to Mutilate's DPS. Ghostcrawler has been exalting the idea of a simple talent/mechanic that allows Blizzard to tweak a class' DPS with minimal backlash or unexpected consequences, and it seems HfB is truly the precursor of what's to come with the Mastery system. The second nerf was also calculated, it struck Combat and Mutilate both, via a poison scaling coefficient that's invisible to players. While it only amounts to a 2-3% nerf for both specs, it's enough to convince many players to abandon their thieves and assassins. Here's the secret: post-nerf, rogues are still way on top.
Let's talk about min/maxing for a minute. The goal of the min/maxing enterprise is to minimize unwanted variables and maximizing those things that are the most beneficial, to be the best at whatever cost. Once you're doing your best, you're finished min/maxing. If you take a look at the graph opening this article (complied with some great data from Darkside), you'll see that Mutilate rogues were literally 12% ahead of their nearest competitor on the most DPS-friendly encounter, and that competitor was the OTHER rogue spec. Combat even had a convincing lead over number 3! The fact is that rogues, when played to their utmost capability, were destroying every other class that they went up against.
While this is "how it should be" and no class should rival the only pure melee DPS class in a pure melee DPS fight, the fact is that there's no reason to rub it in their faces. Mutilate was literally producing numbers 50% higher than some of the lower-tier raiding classes. Even after these nerfs, Mutilate and Combat will still share their station at the top of the DPS food chain. Think about that: after the largest nerf we've received in over a year, we're still #1. Having a class doing 20% more damage than any competition breaks encounters that have very specific DPS requirements and can force a raid leader to stack rogues.
Being #1 is all that matters
If the #2 DPS class was doing 9,999 DPS on a given encounter, I would be more than satisfied to do 10,000 DPS on the same fight. Our goal should not be to make other classes obsolete, but to prevent our own extinction by clawing our way to the top. To quote the great Vin Diesel in The Fast and the Furious: "It doesn't matter if you win by an inch or a mile, winning's winning." That's the mentality every rogue should have when reacting to these nerfs. We're still on top, the bar has simply been lowered a bit.
Imagine if all DPS was cut by 50% across the board. 5k DPS would be seen only by finely-tuned players in top-end raid environments on a favorable fight. Would it make rogues any less powerful if we were at the top of the 5k+ pile instead of the 10k+ pile? It makes no difference what our DPS is, as long as we're doing the most of it. Put simply, it's easier for Blizzard to balance an encounter when DPS values are closer to the same value, with as few outliers as possible. That's what we all want in the end: balanced encounters that push us to the edge. If the solution to a DPS check becomes "bring 10 rogues", just imagine how much loot competition we'd have.
There's been talk around of new specs eschewing Hunger for Blood, trying to break from the yoke of 51 points in Assassination and picking up other talents to replace it. Unfortunately, there's no other talent for us that yields 8% DPS for a single point and glyph, so you're stuck with HfB for now. It's not a bad talent, it's actually quite amazing compared to any other talent besides its old self. Blizzard realized Mutilate was in a bad place and gave us HfB, and it fixed all of the problems with the spec by throwing static damage at it. After the poison proc normalization, Deadly Poison redesign and previous coefficient buff, and Murder buffs, Blizzard repaired Assassination from the broken shell we saw in TBC to a fully-functional build. This nerf is simply GC and the team removing the training wheels from Mutilate rogues, with an assurance that we're steady enough to ride on our own now.
Conclusion:
So we ride. We ride as we top Recount/Skada records and World of Logs parses everywhere. We ride as we progress through content with our friends and guilds. We ride as a we take advantage of every opportunity the game has to offer, knowing we are fully capable of doing everything we've ever wanted to do without some silly prop talent holding us up. Weaning Assassination off of HfB is the first step to replacing it with something awesome, and so any nerf that pushes us towards that goal will be welcomed with open arms.
Filed under: Rogue, (Rogue) Encrypted Text






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 7)
Ronin Jan 13th 2010 5:11PM
Not only are rogues at the top, but they beat the others out by a considerable margin. No one should be too surprised or hurt when that is rectified; no on has a RIGHT to be OP.
Meanwhile:
"Ghostcrawler has been _exalting_ the idea of..."
Inigo Montoya says, "I do not think that means what you think it means".
Gnosh Jan 13th 2010 5:20PM
Actually, it's used correctly here. 'Exalt' in this sense is used as a verb meaning "to praise, desire or deify". Essentially the stuff that makes one "ExaltED".
Gnosh Jan 13th 2010 5:22PM
Also, notice that I didn't start with a snarky comment. THIS is how to correct people without looking like an asshat.
Yes, I'm aware I now look like an asshat (especially to asshats).
ctrl Jan 13th 2010 5:23PM
I find it usually pays to look up words before calling other people out on them... You know, just in case you're wrong, and your post happens to be right at the top... Where everyone can witness your shame...
Gnosh Jan 13th 2010 5:25PM
^
I think this has been an excellent case study.
Ronin Jan 13th 2010 5:42PM
Sorry, guys, but you're wrong too. It's not that you _can't_ use "exalt" in that way-- it's that it's really awkward to do so. Making exalt a gerund, and applying it to an idea? Please. But by all means, go ahead and invest all your energy in correcting me and down-rating me. Not that it'll change anything...
Sulcus Jan 13th 2010 5:48PM
extol US, extoll [ɪkˈstəʊl]
vb -tols, -tolling, -tolled US, -tolls, -tolling, -tolled
(tr) to praise lavishly; exalt
[from Latin extollere to elevate, from tollere to raise]
extoller n
extollingly adv
extolment n
Pretty sure the author of the post meant extol. But exalt does work.
Castellan Jan 13th 2010 5:49PM
Yeaaah, except for the fact Ronin is correct; you exhort ideas and you exalt objects.
ctrl Jan 13th 2010 5:58PM
Perhaps he really meant 'Exult'?
The fact of the matter is he said 'exalt,' and regardless of whether ronin finds gerunds 'awkward' or not, it is a perfectly valid word to use in that sentence.
Ron Feb 9th 2010 1:21PM
Arise and exalt in your pure form!
Tridus Jan 13th 2010 5:11PM
So true. The QQ on this was ridiculous. Rogues were WAY ahead of everybody else. That gap had to be closed, it's not good for the game.
To know why its not good for the game, consider a scenario in Cataclysm where the specs at the low end of that chart are Rogues, and the ones at the high end are Death Knights. What happens? Push content guilds sit Rogues and bring more DKs for tight enrage fights. You get to sit, due to your class.
This is not good when it happens to you, and its not good when it happens to someone else now. It's bad for the game. The new scenario is better.
Nick S Jan 13th 2010 5:21PM
While I agree with the scenario you describe, there are really not many guilds which actively sit certain classes anymore. In Sunwell, it was necessary to clear the content. Now, even hardmodes typically don't require that sort of thing.
jam Jan 13th 2010 5:57PM
"So true. The QQ on this was ridiculous. Rogues were WAY ahead of everybody else. That gap had to be closed, it's not good for the game."
Yep. A nerf was needed.
The damage is better now, but they still should make the muti spec more challenging to play, anyone can get high dps by facerolling .. it takes no skill at all. The rogues in my guild are mocking the "rotation".. they know how to play, but I'd like to see some of these facerollers who suddenly dusted off their rogue alts try playing feral druid for a while. They'd be weeping in 5 minutes.
Neirin Jan 13th 2010 6:33PM
As a boomkin (you know, those numbers at the top of the chart because they're so low), I can say that I'll almost always have a spot in a raid, even when they're min/maxing. Sure, my personal dps isn't as OP as a rogue's, but that's partly because I'm buffing everyone else so much.
Randomize Jan 13th 2010 8:45PM
I must say that the author must be wrong about the title because the sun is not fine from all the rogue QQ. You can't even see it anymore! QQ is filling the skies at the greatest rate since the last major ret pally nerf. Soon, it will block out the sky completely and cause a new ice age. We MUST stop the QQ before it is too late, and our souls are damned to a frozen hell dominated by frost mages!
BigBadGooz Jan 14th 2010 12:19AM
@Neirin
i feel ya bro basicaly ele shammies and boomkins at the bottom of the dps bucket.
Im not in best of slot gear but my 6.5 dps sure pisses off some of our pure dpsers who hover 5-6k dps. which leads me to ask.....why are the classes at the bottom of the bucket not getting buffed who have sat at the bottom perty much all expansion?
Kermit Jan 14th 2010 9:08AM
My main's a rogue, and though I still kind of like her, (probably mostly residual from -loving- her before) I think what makes all this 3.3 and later Blizz messing with rogues so painful to those of us who -loved- being Muti rogues pre-3.3, (when, for well over a year, "rogue damage is right where we want it" according to continued Blizz comments) is exactly what Jam said - they took a spec that actually required signficant practice and, dare I say it, skill, (note: limited to WoW definitions of skill) to do well - commonly watching and working, (DPS side only, so not including Tricks, Kicks or Disarms, which remain the same):
- 4-5 Short DPS Timers - SnD, Rupture, Deadly Poison, Envenom & Expose if you don't have Sunder
- 1 Long DPS Timer - HfB
- Having to work around a GCD for weapon swapping or you lost your DP stack.
- Risk balancing to see if you wanted to try to squeeze in another particular situational attack when some of the timers got tight for even more dps, knowing that you risked losing a lot if it failed.
and with 3.3, -entirely- killed it, turning it into a straight 1-1-2-1-1-2 spec, so that now -anyone- can get ridiculous numbers as a muti rogue without the months of practice that used to be required.
Then, when -everyone's- getting those kind of numbers, (instead of just the few rogues who really worked very hard to be able to get them) rather than just agreeing that they actually made a mistake in playing with rogues in the first place in 3.3 rather than just leaving us alone, and resetting to pre-3.3 muti, where all muti rogues could do -decently- without practice, but would need a lot more work to really do what their spec was capable of, they just decided to start taking damage away from everybody by playing with other entirely unrelated-to-the-problem-they-caused-with-3.3-changes dials.
So, let's see - before, you did -decently- until you really got good at your class, and only -then- did you do -awesomely-, (imagine that - a solid version of class output while learning, which many will never excel beyond, but only an extraordinary one when you actually have the desire / do the work / spend the time on) and now you both can forget any sense of pride from skill in the numbers you achieve, (they're pure gear now) and -bonus- you get to have your damage reduced not once, but twice. Brilliant recipe to keep skilled muti rogues wanting to keep playing them.
Glad to see we're still top of the heap in the fights we're -supposed- to be top of the heap in, but honestly, for me, as much as I used to -love-, (not like, -love-) playing muti, were my rogue not my only really high-quality-raiding-ready char, I'd probably hang her up - going from how fun she was to play to just spamming 1-1-2 while hearing just about everyday now that another nerf is coming, just makes me sad.
SamLowry Jan 14th 2010 10:00PM
"Then, when -everyone's- getting those kind of numbers..."
Um, my rogue was getting 1.5k right before the nerf, even with a couple pieces of i219 gear. Hate to see what it is now.
I'd really like to see what that "facerolling" rotation is, 'cause the rotations I've read about seem rather complex.
Camo Jan 15th 2010 10:34AM
Well, yes I'm unsure about my rogue. It was fun as it was challenging to play a rogue but now..
..and Sam please stop putting all 71 in one tree, kek?
Imnick Jan 13th 2010 5:13PM
Good to know that people suddenly won't be flocking to my class.
The more rogues the better I say, leaves more cloth for the deserving ;)