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1-13-2010 @ 7:44PM
The first and second wars are truly the key to understanding current Horde/Alliance relations, and it's also key to understanding the current dissonnence within the Horde created by the Thrall vs Garrosh relationship.During the First and Second Wars, the Horde was for all intents and purposes absolute evil. Not only did they kill everything in their path, they frequently used the freshly dead to do their bidding via Necromancers in the first war and Death Knights in the second war.Many of the older orcs, Saurfang included, look at this time with shame and the time of Draenie holocaust with even more shame. The Humans/Alliance had the high moral ground, breifly.The fault of the Alliance comes with the treatment and view of the orcs after the wars. After they had won, they looked at all the orcs with fear and hatred. As understandable as that is given the history, it leaves little room for the Horde to redeem themselves in the eyes of the Humans. This means that many members of the Alliance, humans in particular, are now being ass hats when they meet orcs. Then this guy named Thrall comes along and says, "We're people too. We deserve our strength. We deserve redemption. And we deserve to not put up with ass-hattery." Little wonder he's able to rally the Horde, and through the events of the Third War he's able to forge the ground work for positive Horde/Alliance relations with Jaina Proudmoore. Many orcs enjoy Thrall's vision, the Tauren and trolls are straight up in the Horde because of Thrall's vision and actions.But enter Varian and Garrosh. Varian, who's understandably very hesitant to trust orcs--remember he saw what they did through two wars and they personally attacked his family, meets Garrosh, who comes out of the gate and pretty much says, "During the First and Second Wars the Horde was at its strongest. I want to see a return of the Horde on par if not better than that strength. I will KILL anybody I feel is necessary to see us return to our former glory."So Varian feels he needs to get ready for blood, and he won't let Stormwind fall again. Jaina is yelling wait a minute. And Thrall is wondering what the hell he was thinking to allow that upstart idiot talk at anything diplomatically important.
1-14-2010 @ 11:09PM
I agree with most of your post, but one thing.The imprisonment of the orcs was actually the best option for the horde. They could not have let the orcs roam free for 2 reasons: 1 nobody knew if they just wern't faking it and would go back to killing everyone they saw (remember the alliance never knew about their noble past, nor about demon blood, all they knew was that green skinned monsters came out of the dark portal and killed everyone who couldn't get out of their way). And 2: there would have been massive civil unrest if they did. Possably civil wars. The people wanted retribution for their losses, which is perfectly understandably. If an orc killed your wife and children you are not okay with it being released just because them seem like they'll never do it again, justice doesn't work that way right now either.There were some evil camps, that is true, but there were also other camps where they actively tried to cure the orcs from their state of apathy (and one dalaran mage got killed this way). But still this was way better then what the High elves (now who are partially horde as the bloodelves) and Greymane wanted: killing every single orc on azeroth. Which they by all laws of the nations involved had full rights to.The orcs were not slaves: they went in a state of apathy, doing absolutely nothing. So using them as slaves was out of the picture. Many nations had to increase taxes to feed the orcs causing their civilians to sorta rise up against it. There were far worse things that could have happened to the orcs
1-14-2010 @ 1:49PM
Oh, I agree with you Mindless, and I apologize if my tone was misleading about the internment camps. I think, given the options the Alliance had at the time they put the Orcs into internment, that was definately the best option. I think their problem comes from doing too little too late, and from their treatment of the orcs while they're in the interment camps. Only right before Thrall escapes do we start to see some mages in Dalaran taking an educated interest in the orcs. Fordring was banded as a traitor and banished for seeing Eitrigg as honorable and helping the old orc. If Thrall was raised by somebody who was intently interested in seeing orc potential as something more than a money making tool, somebody who would have been more like a true parent. If somebody like Khadgar had found the baby instead somebody like Blackmoore, and had been in charge of the internment camps, I have little doubt current Horde/Alliance relations would be much different.If a few key members of the Alliance had showed more courage to understanding the Horde once the war was over, the internment camps would have been run differently, the orcs would have had less resentment toward the Alliance about it. But for the Alliance part, I feel that part of the problem for that divide comes down to Jaina, who saw the ors at their best and Varian, who's only seen the orcs at their worst. If Varian had been on the slopes of Mount Hyjal with Thrall, he would likewise me much more tolerant of Garrosh's loud mouth.
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