Pulling aggro in PUGs: who's to blame

There is no question that as we PUG up the Dungeon Finder system for our daily random heroic we are going to encounter a lot of bad tanks. It's not surprising really. These are people who spend all day every day getting smashed in face, typically by monstrosities many times their size. And more disturbingly, they chose to do this in the first place. So it should be no surprise that these aren't the brightest people in WoW.
However, it's often far too easy for us DPSers to blame the tank for losing aggro. After all, holding aggro is their job! What is strangely easy for us to forget is that not pulling aggro is our job. It's time for DPSers to take a long hard look at just how good a player we are before yelling at the tank.
Join me after the cut as we take a look at why pulling aggro is the fault of the DPS almost every single time.
The Core Equation
The amount of threat that a tank can generate depends on gear, talents, and skill. It also varies based on the number of mobs, the kind of mobs, and to some extent on what the rest of the group is doing (see Allison's article Abilities I usually wish didn't exist in 5-mans for how the group can screw with tank threat). DPS threat is similarly based on gear, talents, and skill.
However, any DPSer can always do zero threat by not attacking.
In other words, we DPSers have little control over our tank and how much threat he generates, but we have complete and total control over how much threat we generate. Losing aggro is not something the tank does, it's something we do to the tank.
Bad Tanks Are Bad
Without question there are bad tanks out there. Lot's of them in fact, even some that aren't death knights. There are tanks that do far, far less threat than they should be doing. And if we're good players, that forces us to do far, far less DPS than we could be doing. If we're bad players that means that we'll be pulling aggro constantly. Once you realize you have a bad tank, here are your options:
- Quit the group: usually by the time you wait for your debuff to wear off and requeue and wait for another tank (who may be no better) you'll find that it would have been more time efficient to just stick out the group. The only real reason to bail on a tank is if they are taking more damage than the healer can heal (usually meaning they aren't crit immune) or in specific fights where high dps is required to win, and it's literally not possible to do with your tank's threat. These situations are very rare.
- Vote to kick the tank: while satisfying, this is pretty much identical to #1 above. Odds are you're hurting yourself more than the tank, who will instantly get in a new group.
- Yell at the tank: a very popular option is to yell at the tank and insult him and call him a noob. Sometimes this will dro nothing to change the situation, but every now and then your tank will actually pull a large group and then quit the group, leaving you to wipe.
- Do less DPS: a surprisingly unpopular option is to just suck it up, do your job, and don't pull aggro. This may mean spreading your attacks between enemies, doing lower damaging attacks, auto-attacking, or even pausing your attacks from time to time. It will certainly mean waiting a bit before starting your attack. It's also likely to mean you should dust off your CC skills to help your tank limit the number of enemies he needs to generate threat on at a time.
There are certainly exceedingly rare occasions when I'd judge it okay to pull aggro, although I can only think of two.
- Your very first auto-attack pulls aggro. Assuming you don't have a threat meter like Omen to know how much threat the tank has, you can accidentally pull aggro with one attack before realizing just what caliber of tank you have. Thereafter, of course, you should be giving the tank more time to build threat and it shouldn't happen again.
- Pulling a mob off a healer. The tanks with bad threat generation also are often oblivious to the mob that's eating your healer's face. If you don't have a CC option, it is certainly valid to pull the mob off the healer and kite it to the tank. Note however that one you have aggro you should stop attacking it in hopes that your tank can pick it up once you deliver it to him.
Let me be clear here that I hate bad tanks just as much as you do. I spend a lot of time honing my DPS skills and working to do as much damage as possible. It's immensely frustrating to have to curb my death dealing ways because of someone who doesn't even appear to be trying.
And like you, I have on occasion just gone ahead and went all out on a mob I knew I could burn down before it reached me. I feel dirty every time I do it, because it goes against the first tenant of being a good DPSer: never pull aggro.
In the end a tank who can't generate much threat is usually a bad tank. But a DPSer who consistently pulls aggro is also a bad DPSer. Again, tanks don't just lose aggro -- DPSers take it from them. Every time I'm in a PUG with a DPSer who pulls aggro every other pull and then yells at the tank, I throw up a little in my soul. So before you accuse someone of being a bad player, first take an honest look at yourself and make sure you aren't one too.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 16)
Omacron Jan 14th 2010 7:02PM
As a moonkin who wears exclusively caster leather and has high haste and DPS output, in heroic 5mans, I express my intent to offtank. I can usually kill a mob once pulling them before they can even reach me, and if it's a really big deal, well, Blizz gave night elves shadowmeld for a reason.
random Cow Jan 14th 2010 7:13PM
"As a moonkin who wears exclusively caster leather and has high haste and DPS output, in heroic 5mans, I express my intent to offtank"
I was about to laugh, then I realized that this guy might actually be serious...
Nick S Jan 14th 2010 7:25PM
Why the downvotes? My Moonkin guildie often pulls aggro on a mob and kills it before I can even taunt it back off him. It's not at all a problem.
I say, if you pull it, you tank it. And if you can tank it, go ahead!
Angus Jan 14th 2010 7:32PM
I've seen it done, the boomkin grabs some caster mob's attention or a melee guy who spends 3-4 seconds running up to him only to drop dead after 1 swing that hits tank level armor.
I usually taunt the guy back anyway because it spends another 3-4 seconds running up to me, I lose threat again unless I hit it with a hammer in there and then it turns and goes to hit the laser chicken, dropping dead on the way in.
Unless you know your healer can deal with it, it's not going to bug them and the tank knows what you are doing, DON'T DO THIS!!! It freaks us out.
Binkel Jan 14th 2010 7:36PM
I wonder how your heals would feel about that..
Pyromelter Jan 14th 2010 8:05PM
Even a squishie clothie can tank certain mobs in heroics. If you've run an instance a zillion times, and you know that a mob is only going to hit you for 1k melee, and you're gonna kill it in 3 seconds, nothing wrong with that.
Regarding the "unpopular" option: 99% of the time that's what I do. And since I'm generally sleepwalking through the daily, it's not really a problem. Just count to 5 before casting blizzard or arcane blast.
One other time it's not the DPS's fault that they pulled aggro, is when you have a pally tank who forgets to buff Righteous Fury. Unless a paladin is severely undergeared, there is almost no way they should lose aggro; first thing I do when I pull aggro with a pally tank is look at his buffs, and then kindly ask him/her to do Righteous Fury. Most of the time they give me a "whoops, my bad" and cast it.
Final piece of advice: If the tank is anything but a Paladin, count to 3 (at least) before blasting away at your AoE - Unless you are a hunter, in which case you should be MD->Volley'ing onto the tank. With warriors I tend to count to 5, with the exception of exceptional warriors where you can blast away right away.
ozreece77 Jan 14th 2010 8:08PM
Problem is a lot of DPS think their role in life is to DPS.
But that's just part of the equation. They also have to learn Threat management. Most tanks and healers do this as they know it affects each other's survival.
A lot of DPS dont do this.. they just pass the buck. Like the first guy who replied in this thread who's been downrated. He mentions how if hes bitten off too much he can chew he can just Shadowmeld. Classic example of passing the buck. So if the healer is trying to help by keeping him alive, he will probably get aggro, as the tank sure as hell doesnt have alot, especially if he has rounded up the other mobs in a nice AOE pack for the rest of the DPS (who have done their roles correctly). Why should the tank have to go chasing after a mob some selfish dps pulled ( who is quite happy to shadowmeld and let a healer take the hit, btw) and screw it up for the rest of the dps by moving the pack out of the aoe area.
This the sort of selfish me me me behaviour you see in heroics all the time.
Moral of that story is, if you are the healer, let the dps just die. They deserve it.
THere are plenty of ways to manage threat. For example you can get an addon like Aloft and use nameplates as an indicator of your current threat. I have mine set up to glow at varying colours depending on my threat as opposed to the tanks. If all the nameplates are red, hes got solid threat. If they start going to a different threat colour (purple is the first indicator for me), the tank is starting to lose threat and its time to switch to a different target, or throttle back if thats not an option. Hell, you can even look at the %of threat above each mobs head and see where you are on threat and have an indicator how hard you can go.
Now, alot of people wont need something like this but when im looking at the middle of the screen and concentrating on positioning, etc, its a great graphical indicator.
As an example from a run yesterday, with Aloft, the mobs nameplates are a blue glow for me before a pull. The warrior went in to do an aoe pull, but he misjudged the Thunderclap positioning on 2 of the mobs and they hadn't got any threat at all. Lazy dps would assume he has aggro on everything as they dont check for icons etc on mobs so they've started their aoe. Ive noticed he hasnt got threat on 2 of the 4 mobs so i wait a few more seconds. He hits shockwave and now he has threat on all of the mobs. (Nameplates all red). Thats just one example of how ive managed my threat to help out the tank.
iammurlocftw Jan 14th 2010 8:48PM
considering the fact that moonkins get the same base armor bonus as dire bears of 370% not counting feral talents, it seems really do able. especialy considering that as a nightelf he has his agro dump he mentioned. its like how i can handle things attacking me easily in demo form on my lock cause it increases my armor majorly.
Terethall Jan 14th 2010 9:40PM
As a warlock, I routinely find myself able to tank casters. I hate people who assume that DPS is so easy to control.
Earlier today, I was in a terrible HPoS run. And the problem wasn't (just) that the tank wasn't generating much threat, it's that he was generating INCONSISTENT threat. I would wait 5 to 10 seconds (not an exaggeration) before starting dps. I would get to about 35% aggro with an Immo, Conflag, and Chaos Bolt. That's not too bad, so I continue to cast an Incinerate. It lands for something like 7k, my threat is at 47%. Twice more, my threat is at 60%, I back off and wait for Conflag to come off CD. I'm at 50% again. I cast Conflagrate followed by Chaos Bolt. My Imp crits, causing me to crit. Conflag and CB both crit, followed by the Conflag ticks also critting. I now have aggro because I just did 30K+ damage in two globals and according to Omen the tank didn't generate a single point of threat in that amount of time (he was apparently taunting something). How the Hell is that my fault? Because this tank was also dying if the fights went more than about 30 seconds.
The tank would ignore casters, they would aggro to the healer. I pull them off, but I have no way of dragging them to the tank. They're still standing there about 5 feet outside of his shockwave radius. However, I know I can kill them if I get a heal or two. So I get to the point where I just say, "F$#* it" and pop CDs and burn a caster off the bat because I know the tank isn't going to do his job.
I'm not saying there aren't fail dps who unload before the tank even pulls or who AoE CCed mobs, but it's NOT always a caster's fault for pulling aggro. Telling a dps he could simply not dps is like telling a healer it's his fault for pulling aggro because the tank still had 15k health left and he didn't HAVE to heal him.
DPS should be able to expect reasonably consistent threat generation from the tank, so that surprise crits don't pull aggro.
Furthermore, this article mentions auto-attacking a ton. Are you suggesting casters start fights by auto-attacking (not all casters even have wands)? Because most casters' abilities are heavy-hitting crit-capable spells, not little auto-attacks we can use to figure out where the tank is on dps.
And finally, we have to look at what's fun. Dps play dps because they find it fun to dps. Healers and tanks my not enjoy themselves when dps pull aggro and die, because that hampers how they do their job. But dps don't enjoy it when they can't do their job, for the very same reason. The tank is just as much to fault for an instance not being enjoyable as the dps if there are aggro problems, assuming the dps is letting the tank pull.
Draelan Jan 14th 2010 10:43PM
This, sir, is a VERY bad habit to get into. Especially if you do this with tanks who don't know you. Any decent tank will constantly be trying to ensure that they keep threat on a group of mobs, as that is their job. When a DPS pulls a mob, it sets off alarm bells in a tank's mind, and will often result in said tank scrambling to gain back aggro.
Not only is this an unpleasant experience, but while that tank is switching over to try and regain the target YOU decided to nuke down, they may not be keeping up the same level of threat on everything else while doing so, which can result in someone else pulling a mob, since that threat buffer is now reduced. A situation like this may cause deaths, and could easily be avoided if you were more cautious about your threat management.
In short, if you're with a tank/group that knows you and doesn't mind, fine, I suppose. But if you plan on not being careful with your threat regardless of who's in the group, could I get yoru character name/server? I want to be sure I never group with you.
Snuzzle Jan 15th 2010 12:30AM
What Deaelan said. Also, it's very insulting to the tank. It's basically saying ""I don't need you". I've even been told this outright by DPS who act the same way, on several occasions.
No one wants to be told they're not needed, outright or implied. Especially to be told they're not needed for what is THEIR JOB. Eventually, if I get told by a certain player I'm grouped with enough times "I don't need you to tank this" I will ignore any mobs that go running to said player. Whether they're ones he intended to pull or not.
I don't care if you CAN tank it. It's my JOB to tank it, at least let me have that. I only appreciate when DPS pull off of me if I am taking too much damage and the healer is struggling. Then that extra few seconds may give him enough breathing room to get me back to a comfortable health level. Unless and until that happens, let me do my job or click "tank" in the queue.
Sehvekah Jan 15th 2010 2:52AM
See, this stuff is why I *Love* being a Rogue, especially since Wrath hit. One glyph spot and my personal DPS is a little lower, but I can TotT the tank and for the next 10 seconds after my first hit(typically FoK) I can just go all out. It's not "without a care in the world" going all out, because I *do* care about giving the tank as much threat as I can in that window, but my threat generation becomes a relative non-issue for me. And hey, one less thing to worry about is always awesome.
It also offers a way to make something stop chewing on the healer without the tank having to spend a cooldown(global or otherwise) that might be needed later. Well, in theory, anyways. In practice, when this is an issue in 5-mans, TotT's almost always on cooldown so I usually just end up popping Evasion and any DPS cooldowns I have ready to make the mob focus on me for a little while. "Little while" in this case being "till the healer-eating mob is dead". Rogue tanking FTW ;) Yes, yes, "bad DPS", but I'm sure we can all agree that's still better than "dead healer".
Arkhell Jan 15th 2010 3:18AM
Panzer tanking mobs = win ^^
Othor_NL Jan 15th 2010 3:55AM
I can off-tank (rogue) when my evasion is off cooldown. I just use it when mobs are heading for the clothies though and if my TotT is on cooldown.
Fatamorgana Jan 15th 2010 9:07AM
I can't believe it hasn't been said in this thread already, but...SHADOW MELD IS NOT AN AGGRO DUMP.
Yes, you lose aggro, but the moment you perform any action the entirety of that aggro returns and you'll have threat unless the tank can somehow grab it before you get bored and attack again.
And WHEN you shadow meld, who do you think that mob goes for? The tank? Or the healer who just had to perform double-time heals because of your ego?
RogueJedi86 Jan 15th 2010 9:44AM
All the haters need to stop voting down anyone who suggests Moonkins tank. It can and has been possible. Read this:
http://www.wowwiki.com/Panzerkin
Panzerkins tanked at least as high as Kara in BC just fine. If you'd be willing to experiment a little in a group, you'd see how possible it is too.
I voted you up Omacron, I support your Panzerkin ways!
Belareyn Jan 15th 2010 9:47AM
A lot of what me and some of my guildies tend to see with DPS is they are speccing for doing as much damage as they can, and totally ignore the talents that say 'reduces threat by so-and-so%'. Just because you want to hit 7K DPS in a heroic doesn't make you a good DPS. It makes you very narrowminded, because there is a lot more to the game than just pew pew. We have a mage in our guild with a fireball build who loves to put Living Bomb on every single mob in a huge group.... guess what happens when they all go off? He gets aggro and dies. He's died so much that I doubt he has more than a few hundred gold on him at any time.
You might think that tanks should be able to hold aggro on mobs when you get 3 or 4 HUGE crits in a row, but it doesn't work like that unless you and the rest of the DPS are attacking the skull marked mob. But if you're attacking one mob and the rest of the DPS are AOEing a whole pack, the tank has a lot of threat to manage in very little time.
Also, when I'm tanking I see a lot of people who start attacking before I even have a chance to hit consecrate or avenger's shield. Guys, a little patience would you? What ozreece was saying about that AddOn Aloft might work for you if you get confused as to whether the tank has proper threat yet or not.
Umehte Jan 15th 2010 10:33AM
I think its funny that tanks want people to be patient and wait for them to pull and generate aggro when right after a fight 99% that I play with rush off and pull the next group without allowing anyone including the healer (myself) any mana replenishment...
jrizutko Jan 15th 2010 10:35AM
I don't think whether Moonkins can tank or not matters. I'm sure they can. Lots of classes CAN offtank. What matters is whether it adds utility or chaos. A real tank's job is not simply to be the one attacked. It is to control the flow of a fight. He/She sets the kill order, determines the positioning, sets the pace and determines cc priorities. That's not an ego thing, its why you brought the tank.
Now if a tank is incapable of doing all that, then I can certainly appreciate the rest of the group using whatever tools they have to steer away from a wipe and towards success. If your tank IS capable, however, then adding any element of chaos is bush league. You're making everyone else's job harder because you have some weird ego issue about proving you can handle having aggro from a mob. No one cares or is impressed. They will be impressed when you make a savvy move to save a healer from aggro, or bring a mob back under the tank's control. If you're just peeling mobs off because you're too lazy to find the right target, good players will just see you as lazy.
Massa Jan 15th 2010 10:47AM
I don't completely understand why he is being downvoted. He says he expresses the ability to offtank--so it's not that he likes to randomly pull aggro and nuke stuff. I do this with a tank I know--if I can't handle it, I'll kite the mob back to him--so my tank doesn't even have to move (of course as a moonkin I can also cast hots on myself and then get back into my extra 370% armor). That is of course because I play a moocow instead of night elf.
He's not saying he doesn't need the tank, or that the tank is bad. He's saying to the tank, don't worry as much about me as the clothies who don't have 5k+ armor (currently I have 16k armor in my caster leather as a moonkin). This also means as a druid, I can pull aggro off the healer and "tank" it without having the actual tank go crazy that his healer might die.