Pulling aggro in PUGs: who's to blame

There is no question that as we PUG up the Dungeon Finder system for our daily random heroic we are going to encounter a lot of bad tanks. It's not surprising really. These are people who spend all day every day getting smashed in face, typically by monstrosities many times their size. And more disturbingly, they chose to do this in the first place. So it should be no surprise that these aren't the brightest people in WoW.
However, it's often far too easy for us DPSers to blame the tank for losing aggro. After all, holding aggro is their job! What is strangely easy for us to forget is that not pulling aggro is our job. It's time for DPSers to take a long hard look at just how good a player we are before yelling at the tank.
Join me after the cut as we take a look at why pulling aggro is the fault of the DPS almost every single time.
The Core Equation
The amount of threat that a tank can generate depends on gear, talents, and skill. It also varies based on the number of mobs, the kind of mobs, and to some extent on what the rest of the group is doing (see Allison's article Abilities I usually wish didn't exist in 5-mans for how the group can screw with tank threat). DPS threat is similarly based on gear, talents, and skill.
However, any DPSer can always do zero threat by not attacking.
In other words, we DPSers have little control over our tank and how much threat he generates, but we have complete and total control over how much threat we generate. Losing aggro is not something the tank does, it's something we do to the tank.
Bad Tanks Are Bad
Without question there are bad tanks out there. Lot's of them in fact, even some that aren't death knights. There are tanks that do far, far less threat than they should be doing. And if we're good players, that forces us to do far, far less DPS than we could be doing. If we're bad players that means that we'll be pulling aggro constantly. Once you realize you have a bad tank, here are your options:
- Quit the group: usually by the time you wait for your debuff to wear off and requeue and wait for another tank (who may be no better) you'll find that it would have been more time efficient to just stick out the group. The only real reason to bail on a tank is if they are taking more damage than the healer can heal (usually meaning they aren't crit immune) or in specific fights where high dps is required to win, and it's literally not possible to do with your tank's threat. These situations are very rare.
- Vote to kick the tank: while satisfying, this is pretty much identical to #1 above. Odds are you're hurting yourself more than the tank, who will instantly get in a new group.
- Yell at the tank: a very popular option is to yell at the tank and insult him and call him a noob. Sometimes this will dro nothing to change the situation, but every now and then your tank will actually pull a large group and then quit the group, leaving you to wipe.
- Do less DPS: a surprisingly unpopular option is to just suck it up, do your job, and don't pull aggro. This may mean spreading your attacks between enemies, doing lower damaging attacks, auto-attacking, or even pausing your attacks from time to time. It will certainly mean waiting a bit before starting your attack. It's also likely to mean you should dust off your CC skills to help your tank limit the number of enemies he needs to generate threat on at a time.
There are certainly exceedingly rare occasions when I'd judge it okay to pull aggro, although I can only think of two.
- Your very first auto-attack pulls aggro. Assuming you don't have a threat meter like Omen to know how much threat the tank has, you can accidentally pull aggro with one attack before realizing just what caliber of tank you have. Thereafter, of course, you should be giving the tank more time to build threat and it shouldn't happen again.
- Pulling a mob off a healer. The tanks with bad threat generation also are often oblivious to the mob that's eating your healer's face. If you don't have a CC option, it is certainly valid to pull the mob off the healer and kite it to the tank. Note however that one you have aggro you should stop attacking it in hopes that your tank can pick it up once you deliver it to him.
Let me be clear here that I hate bad tanks just as much as you do. I spend a lot of time honing my DPS skills and working to do as much damage as possible. It's immensely frustrating to have to curb my death dealing ways because of someone who doesn't even appear to be trying.
And like you, I have on occasion just gone ahead and went all out on a mob I knew I could burn down before it reached me. I feel dirty every time I do it, because it goes against the first tenant of being a good DPSer: never pull aggro.
In the end a tank who can't generate much threat is usually a bad tank. But a DPSer who consistently pulls aggro is also a bad DPSer. Again, tanks don't just lose aggro -- DPSers take it from them. Every time I'm in a PUG with a DPSer who pulls aggro every other pull and then yells at the tank, I throw up a little in my soul. So before you accuse someone of being a bad player, first take an honest look at yourself and make sure you aren't one too.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion
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Reader Comments (Page 3 of 16)
tomanytoons Jan 14th 2010 7:11PM
Tanks need to learn too, if they aren't holding aggro I lead the mob back to in front of their vision, or kite it around until they pick it up off me or it dies. The only really bad experience I have had so far was when I was healing a run, the tank started yelling at me for heals when I had 3 mobs beating my face in while held aggro on the one.
What's funny on my healer is when a dps person will tell me that they are the only one that needs heals in the group because they will kill everything for the group.
Qot Jan 14th 2010 8:08PM
Everyone repeat the mantra... If the healer dies, it's the tank's fault. If the tank dies, it's the healer's fault. If the DPS dies, it's their own fault.
Terethall Jan 14th 2010 9:47PM
Yes Qot. If you're a dps, and a mob is on the healer, let him die so the tank gets blamed. If you're a DK dps with 30K health, don't bother to pull that mob off the priest, silly. Then it will be your fault when you die, because you tried to protect the healer instead of just letting the group wipe. Definitely not the tank's fault.
Possum Jan 15th 2010 3:07AM
Qot i once had a healer who actually believed this to the letter, meaning, they didn't heal dps..at all. Not even through inescapable aoe damage.."if you die it's your own damn fault"
Zanathos Jan 15th 2010 4:47AM
This article isn't about what tanks can do. It's about what dps can do to salvage a run. If you keep faceplanting from peeling mobs off a tank, the smart thing to do would be adjust your behavior, as that's all you can control. And that'd be a summary of the article.
Just because a tank isn't preforming at the level you'd like doesn't mean your ire will magically improve him. I tank often, and I'm, quite modestly, awesome. When I'm dpsing however, I adjust my output if I pull threat a lot. Baring something painfully obvious ("uh, if you use frost presence to tank and drop DnD on groups, that might help") you will not be able to improve your tanks performance. It's a function of video game aptitude and experience, not of how many strangers complain.
Andrew Breese Jan 14th 2010 7:13PM
The issue I have seen many many times since the LFg tool was upgraded is DPS moving ahead and doing the actual pulls, then expecting the Tanks to handle it. I've seen a Druid-Tree do this too.
When asked to stop they reply with inane trash talk. I think your article is very reasonable and sensible, but there is nothing reasonable and sensible about a dps who ignores the capacity of the team around them and just zergs. It is selfish and frustrating.
I would love to see an article which directly points out this bad play style in critical language, in an attempt to raise this as an understood issue and change the communities attitude.
You want to know why Tanks hate pugs? It is because we are often marginalised by selfish players, and it makes the runs unenjoyable.
Tina Marie Jan 14th 2010 7:25PM
I'm running 2 tanks in heroics every night, and I will call out DPS who pull off me repeatedly. I was in a group the other night - the healer said "Need mana. Don't pull". The DPS DK "jokingly" said "Pull? Okay!" and pulled the next group. I picked them up, blew my cooldowns, and we survived. Then I told him:
"DPS like you are the reason there is a tank shortage."
He probably didn't learn anything, but it made the healer cheer and me feel better.
Ilmyrn Jan 14th 2010 7:28PM
No kidding. last night I took my alt paladin tank into random Heroics and wound up in a DTK run with a group of DPS who repeatedly ran ahead and pulled groups while I was looting or mana-ing up. Finally, I just stopped taunting them off and let the enemies kill everyone else while I stayed out of combat.
Now my tanking philosophy in random heroics is this: If you want to be the tank, be my guest. If you pull off me once or twice, hey, no problem. You're probably much better geared then my alt and it takes some time to get a feel for my threat generation. If you're doing it the whole instance, you tank it. I'll taunt off the healer once you die.
It's not my repair bill.
dragon11290 Jan 14th 2010 7:52PM
This is why i never goto heroics inless i have 2 friends. So i control the vote generaly my pally tank, priest healer and dk dps. So if anyone does anything stupid ur gone i got 3 votes majority rules.
Irem Jan 14th 2010 8:56PM
It really is like babysitting. I'm constantly amazed at the simultaneous cries of "Why aren't there any tanks??" combined with the expectation that not only should newbie tanks spring fully geared and experienced from Hodir's brow, but that DPS with a rock star attitude could totally solo the instance if they wanted and they're just carrying the tank, healer, and DPS out of the goodness of their hearts.
Eric Jan 14th 2010 10:05PM
I concur.
LFG Dps don't care. They burn away and bitch at the tank to mark mobs or control aggro. Im sorry i am a "good" tank, I ask at every instance how do you think I did.
LFG has allowed us to quickly do every heroic in one day. I love it. If we are in Occulus or UP or some low level instance. DO you really need me to tell you that the group i just pulled is the one we should work on. Don't run ahead an Fan of Knives the entire room because I didn't mark.
Tanks.. if you suck get better. If you don't, there is the option to discuss with the group, if that fails you quit group.
The fact is if you deal with crappy dpsers who can't control themselves they wasted there 15min in LFG. Tanks and Heals can get a new group almost instantly.
Sqtsquish Jan 15th 2010 3:17AM
my feelings towards the matter is only save the pull if you or the healer are in combat otherwise let them die how ever many times it takes.
Mommacow Jan 15th 2010 8:00AM
Seriously. I like tanking, but after a dozen "OMG pull faster!" noobs, the DPS who criticize my gearing at the same time the healer is DPSing because I'm taking no damage, and *especially* the holy pally who ran around Consecrating mobs 20 yards in front of me...I'd rather wait the fifteen minutes to get in at DPS. It's just not worth it.
Mammatus Jan 15th 2010 10:21AM
I am a healer. When I run LFG I always bring my own tank (or they bring me either way). One of the tanks I group with regularly had an issue with people pulling mobs by wandering around the rooms and just being in front of him. His solution is to call out "Let him die". It is harsh, but it kind of sets the mood better than just letting the dps tank it. When the offending DPS goes down the rest of the group 4-mans whatever it was.
Eastland23 Jan 14th 2010 7:19PM
If you pull agro in the first 5 seconds of a fight, it's your own fault.
If you pull agro after the first 5 seconds of a fight, it's the tank's fault.
Ilmyrn Jan 14th 2010 7:30PM
I'm going to disagree with you there. Part of the DPS's job is to watch their threat. If your threat is too high, stop DPSing. Switch targets, burn a threat reducer, or just click off the enemy. The only time it's the tank's fault for someone pulling aggro is when it's the healer.
Ted Jan 14th 2010 8:00PM
yah, I would generally agree with you but...have you ever tanked heroic Halls of Reflection? Because, lemme tell you, those are complicated and dangerous pulls. Let me clarify: with a good group of DPS and the pulling spot that instance is doable. With a bad group the 5 second rule doesn't count; each of the spectral mobs arrives at a different time, and depending on whether they are melee or a caster the amount of lead time that a tank needs to have ALL of the mobs on them will vary. Factor in Line of Sight, healers pulling aggro before a caster mob has done all the traveling (no one's fault), DPS placement, mismatched kill priorities and overzealous DPS (I do 2.5k dps, they do 5k on a mob I've gotten maybe 1 consecrate on) and suddenly you have a giant wipefest.
My worst group ever was a HoR; the lock would flash red on my ui (time for a taunt) while attacking a mob I wasn't focused on and then, I swear to you, in less than the 8 seconds (taunt cooldown), he would grab aggro again. And then he was complaining about dying mid-fight. Dropped that group after the 3rd party-chat abuse I took from him.
TR Jan 14th 2010 8:14PM
Sorry, but switching targets in this case means you will now have TWO mobs that have you at the top of their threat list. When the tank pulls multiple trash mobs, it means running around avoiding fire/frost/poison trying to pick a target meaning you're really not doing a damn thing in the fight at all. If you're a rogue, warlock, mage, etc. the first few hits from your rotation is going to send that mob's aggro through the roof. Again. When you're a caster and you've waited for the tank to get aggro, it takes at least 3 seconds fire off your nuke, and you pull threat in the middle of your third cast, there is no way in hell it can be your fault. We end up either being stuck in "L2play your DPS sucks" or "WTF stop stealing aggro".
The majority of the tanks I've PUG'd with have been fantastic! However there also is a sizeable chunk of tanks out there that seem to be falling in to 2 groups: 1) Pull everything because I want to get through here as quickly as possible, and I've got plenty of HP; 2) I don't have to worry about anything because that guy's just here to heal me, and the others are just there so I won't get too bored taking a long time to kill this mob.
What I've gotten from this article is basically what I've gotten from the tank-centric articles - with a twist: Yeah, there are bad tanks out there, but if you steal aggro from them it's still your fault. Dropping group is a crappy thing to do, so don't. Critiquing is insulting, so don't. Don't play your class as it was designed. If it means nuking once or twice every 30 seconds or so and getting yelled at for not doing enough DPS then just suck it up. Oh and while your at it, set up that mage table/soul well too.
Hollow Leviathan Jan 14th 2010 9:47PM
Managing threat is NOT an either/or between tanks and DPS. It's BOTH of your jobs. It's their job to make as much threat as possible, and it's your job to not go past their threat. If you bypass their threat, you failed your job. If you DPS just below their threat and it takes too long to kill them and the healer goes OOM and you die, the tank was not doing their job. Make it the tanks fault, not yours.
Possum Jan 15th 2010 2:11AM
I've done instances where the tank ran through the entire instance picking up every mob on the way without stopping. I'm a ranged caster and it takes me a couple seconds STANDING STILL to get off a spell, I have one instant cast spell and it has a cooldown. The tank then bitches about fail dps (on trash) and how we were lucky to have his/her uber self to carry us....dps are people too..