Drama Mamas: Spoilsport speed demons
by Lisa Poisso 
Jan 15th 2010 at 11:00AM
What happens when the Dungeon Finder matches up a group of players with the right mix of roles but the wrong mix of goals? Who "wins" when veteran players want to speed-run a lower-level instance, while the new players want to savor every surprise and puzzle over every trick? Lisa and Robin are on different sides of the fence this week. No matter which philosophy rings true for you, it's something worth agreeing on with the rest of the group at the beginning of the run.
Dear Drama Mamas: Having played a mage for the last 18 months, I decided to level my first alt, a priest. I ran into unexpected drama problems running my priest in the entry level instances using the random Dungeon Finder. You've offered excellent commentary on issues arising in endgame instances. I am soliciting your insight on conflict unique to the low-end random instances.
In contrast to endgame instances, where gear issues arise, random entry-level instances are mixing highly experienced players with people who are new to World of Warcraft. The principal conflict that arises is the first group wants to get geared and leveled as quickly as possible. The new players are there to experience what the instance offers. The first wants to run the instance quickly, the second need time. Regards, Anonymous
When in Scarlet Monastery ...Drama Mama Lisa: Speed runs in level 80 instances have become a fact of life. True, there could be a fresh 80 in the group who would prefer time to gawk and peer and sniff around each corner. Still, the reality is that level 80 instances are once again part of the end game -- and the end game is packed with players who've seen it all a dozen times before.
Lower-level instances, however, are a different matter altogether. If you're in a pre-80 instance pushing for speed, blasting past scripted encounters and strong-arming instance mechanics -- and there are new players in the group who'd like to enjoy the full dungeon experience ... Well, you're no different than the obnoxious, popcorn-munching nerf herders behind you in the movie theater cackling "Oh-oh-oh wait, wait! Here's where the treasure falls out of the plane and is lost forever! Watch ... watch ... There! HAHAHA! And the masked man turns out to be the dude's best friend! HAHAHA! And -- oh, what? Hey! Hey! I couldn't hear what they were saying! HAHAHA! Oh, well. It doesn't matter, because I already told you the girl dies in the end, anyway! HAHAHA!"
/insert female Draenei laugh here
You know that saying about "when in Rome ..."? It goes for WoW, too. When you're in Scarlet Monastery, do as the Scarlet Monastery-level players do. Don't be a spoilsport with spoilers and speed-running.
That leaves jaded alts with a few alternatives:
- Offer to explain and narrate as you go. Some new players might actually prefer a safe, speedy encounter, as long as you allow them to get an eyeful of the major points of interest along the way.
- Try another group. Drop out of this group and take your chances with another batch of players. Why not kick the slowbie(s) instead? Because it's you who's created a "problem" by wanting to run the content in a special way. Just how rotten would it be to get kicked from every instance you queue up for because there are too many vets around who'd prefer a speed run? When in Scarlet Monastery ...
- Form your own group. Find some friends on your own server to level up as a team. A little friendly support coupled with a little friendly competition goes a long way in spicing up the umpteenth road to 80.
- Slow down and smell the roses. Check out all the little touches you never had time for before. Savor reminiscing about encounters you know like the back of your hand. And remember crowd control? Rediscover the skill -- or make yourself a more versatile player by learning it for the first time, if you've never had the opportunity until now.
- Stick to questing. Questing allows you to run at your own pace all the way to the top.
Drama Mama Robin: I love instance leveling, but this speed-run/slow-enjoy discrepancy can definitely be a problem. One of the things causing it is the tendency for the same dungeon to come up over and over when you are in a certain level range. In the early 30s, for example, Scarlet Monastery Graveyard will come up every time until you level out of it. Trying to find fellow PUGgers willing to do anything but speed run on the fourth time through in an hour is near impossible. But I also have found that many long-time players are enjoying seeing the dungeons in appropriately leveled groups (as opposed to being run through by a max-level friend).
You can have the run you want in two simple steps:
- Announce your intentions Right at the beginning of the instance, state whether you want to be a speednik or a rubbernecker.
- Be democratic I disagree with Lisa in that I don't think all lower level instances should be slower and spoiler-free by default. So after step 1, take a vote. If you're in the minority, drop out. If you're in the majority, recommend that outvoted players drop. Vote-kick if necessary.
Players with max-level characters have another option for seeing a dungeon at their own pace. Whether you want to get the lay of the place for easier speed runs or experience the story, you can solo the dungeon on your 80. Not only will you see it the way you want to, you'll pick up some fun Achievements along the way. I highly recommend this for parents while your kids are awake, too. You can see the dungeon with as many interruptions as you want and save the uninterrupted play session for the Dungeon Finder.
Hey, Dungeon Finder queue-hoppers: Please don't queue as a tank or healer if you're relying on another gear set to get you in the front door. You're not pulling the wool over anyone's eyes by signing up for a role you're not geared, specced or experienced enough to handle. If you're legitimately aiming to buff up your tanking or healing offspec, start out in normal modes and simpler instances until you get the hang of things. We guarantee you'll catch up in no time.
Remember, your mama wouldn't want to see your name on any drama. Play nice ... and when in doubt, ask the Drama Mamas at DramaMamas (at) WoW (dot) com.Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Tips, WoW Social Conventions, Virtual selves, Instances, Features, Leveling, Drama Mamas
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 5)
Chris M Jan 15th 2010 3:46PM
As a tank and a healer, I can say for a fact that I know that you can re-queue with the same people, as do most if not all of my friends/guildies. The only reason I'd drop group after a PUG despite needing to do more heroics is because the group is bad. :)
Sleutel Jan 15th 2010 6:41PM
@Gnosh:
"At least when you get a good group, you can keep queuing for more. It amazes me how many people don't know that. Specifically, it amazes me how many tanks and healers don't know ;_;"
Are they dropping group before you can ask them to stay, or are they staying after you ask, saying, "Gee, I didn't know that?"
If it's the former, it could be that they DID know, but they didn't like the group as much as you did. I know I (as a tank) have dropped group after a run that wasn't bad, per se, just wasn't a group of people I cared to continue running with. It isn't even always about skill: it could be that the group was too talkative or too quiet... or the person just needed a break.
Priestess Jan 17th 2010 11:33AM
@ Molly:
While I don't agree that one good run makes up for 10 bad ones (it doesn't even PAY for it, for starters!), I do agree that the good parts overall make it worth using the Dungeon Finder.
For me on my main, I often get a kick out of seeing how absolutely clueless some people are. Like the prot/ret/holy-adin in random greens and blues who doesn't know what abilities to use and in his 900 dps his melee was the highest damage ability by more than double what Consecrate did. I don't mind carrying them, and if it's possible I like to (nicely, I know Drama Mamas) give suggestions in the hopes others won't hate these players later. "Can you please face the boss the other way so he won't spray the rest of us? Oh thank you, I appreciate that." And I'm here behind the keyboard laughing about it and noting that I haven't used more than 20% of my mana yet. I can handle it, so I can laugh about it and go on. I'll get a 10-minute Gundrak later, I know I will.
There are the others whom we all know about that either vote-kick said terrible players, or berate them the entire run, making everyone miserable. But I like to put in what effort I can to help others through the instance and through the game. It makes most runs with even unskilled and difficult players worth doing.
Barinthos Jan 15th 2010 11:16AM
That's why i'm glad I roll a tank whenever I do decide to level a new character. I set the pace, and if someone in the group states they are new to the game, I go slow. If the "veteran elitist dbags" don't like it, drop group, I don't care.
I'm not going to usher brand new WoW players into a game with their first couple instance runs by blitzing to the end and dropping group. If you show people early in the game common courtesy then maybe, just maybe WoW will have less a-holes at 80 and will continue that trend themselves.
Spellotape Jan 15th 2010 1:30PM
So you punish the non-"veteran elitist dbags" by dropping group and most likely leaving them in the same situation once the queue comes up again? I guess it's never too early for people to learn that the normal response to things you don't like in WoW is to simply drop group and not try to overcome it by actually talking to people.
Barinthos Jan 15th 2010 1:52PM
Wha? I don't think you understood what I was talking about. If someone doesn't like how I, as the tank, is progressing through the dungeon THEY can drop group. I don't drop groups unless something IRL comes up.
Deadly. Off. Topic. Jan 15th 2010 11:19AM
But wouldn't most players who are racing through these things - if they're experienced and highly geared, be doing the heroic versions of these instances... or is the person who wrote in trying to do heroics on their new alt? How do you savor a heroic knowing full well that heroics are being run a lot by "geared, experienced, skilled" players? (And I know that sounds elitist, but there's TWO types of instances, normal and heroic - easy and hard. If you're going in it to learn the run, you go into the easy one first.)
There's a big difference with going into an instance and savoring it on a NON-heroic setting than if you're going into a heroic instance. At least in a non-heroic, you should have an easier time going through it.
jared.daniels Jan 15th 2010 11:25AM
Well, you can't really do heroic versions of the instances spoken of here. Lowbies all run those classic instances with no heroic modes. Also these instances are currently the fastest way for many people to level.
MadMac10 Jan 15th 2010 12:30PM
Here's one example: the Nexus.
As a leatherworking hunter, I like to dawdle through and collect dragonscale. There aren't that many other places where the picking is so easy. JUST ONCE I'd like to get in a group where the tank waits for me (y'all know hunters have to dismiss pets when jumping off the platforms, doncha? You know why, doncha?)
I swear--this LFG system has introduced me to a whole new class of douchebag: the tank who wants to top the DPS meter.
Ozzard Jan 15th 2010 12:27PM
"New to patch 3.4! Heroic Rage Fire Chasm! Now tuned for level 40-45, with better drops and Taragaman the Hungerer doing a /rude at the tank before he engages!"
Juneau Jan 15th 2010 12:49PM
MadMac, we don't want to top the DPS meter (if we are, you're doing it very wrong), we just want to finish quickly and get our emblems. It annoys me far more when I go as DPS every once in a while and the tank stands around for half a minute after every pull. If the healer needs mana breaks fair enough, but if they can handle it I'm gonna be chain pulling.
Skinning doesn't take that long, and as a hunter you don't exactly need to be right in the fray, do you? So wait back, skin, and then carry on. The group's not exactly gonna fall apart just because you're not DPSing for 5 seconds.
Rifter Jan 15th 2010 1:01PM
@MadMac10
Why would you want them to wait for you? I run as a tank, and have pretty good gear. I can go for quite a while without a heal. Last night, I did VH, and I think my healer got terribly bored. After that, we did Occ. The first DPSer dropped, so we started pulling. We got almost to the first boss, before a DPSer came in and stayed. In a normally over-powered group, you should be able to 4-man any encounter, at least if one of the 3 missing, is DPS. I am to the point that I can tank and do enough damage for a lot of the content. The problem, is that it is painfully slow.
Great DPS make the runs go faster. Don't worry if you are skinning and they start without you. They will appreciate your numbers when you have caught up. If I see someone skinning, I have no problem going on, knowing they will catch up (I always wait at bosses). It is the guy that dawdles behind and doesn't contribute that is a problem.
ZMES_Matt Jan 15th 2010 11:20AM
In my opinion, the Dungeon Finder is a tool of convenience, and having someone in group that wants to explore every nook and cranny of an old world dungeon, or talk to every NPC/read every book is NOT convenient, it goes against the purpose of the Dungeon Finder tool. The added bonuses at the end are incentive to use the dungeon finder as legitmate way of leveling, but when someone comes along and wants to take twice as much time to absorb everything, it makes running the instance hurt your leveling rather than helping it.
Robin is right all the way; if you want to be the person to absorb everything, by all means ask and everyone just might not care, but if someone does, don't be disappointed. Just try to assemble a on-server team with sight-seeing the purpose
Barinthos Jan 15th 2010 11:30AM
"and having someone in group that wants to explore every nook and cranny of an old world dungeon, or talk to every NPC/read every book is NOT convenient" - Maybe to you it isn't.
The dungeon finder is different things to different people. Convenience doesn't always mean super-fast-insta-level-wonderness! It's convenient in the fact that all you have to do is click a couple buttons to enter the instance with a full group. It's convenient to get gear to help you level faster after you down the last boss. And it's also convenient for people to explore a new place they would otherwise, most likely, never have seen until they were far above the recommended level to run it.
ZMES_Matt Jan 15th 2010 11:39AM
@Barinthos
The added experience at the end would need to much much higher if we were meant to use the dungeon finder as a way of sight-seeing and taking in the story; otherwise soloing is still much more effective if we have to wait on people to take in everything. I know some people would still use it anyways just to see the dungeons, but the majority of people I know just want to level as fast as possible and the Dungeon Finder tool would go widely unused below 80 if this were the case.
Barinthos Jan 15th 2010 11:44AM
Well I didn't mean it was ONLY for sight seeing, it's just an added bonus for the new WoW players. Everyone that has an 80 or 2 has probably seen every dungeon in the game more times than they care to and I wouldn't blame them for wanting to get the hell out of it ASAP.
And I wouldn't go super slow for the new players. I would go at a brisk pace(depending on group composition and skill) but not zerg the piss out of the dungeon in 5 minutes and GTFO lol.
ZMES_Matt Jan 15th 2010 11:54AM
Fair enough.
And honestly, if someone asked for me to wait up a little for them so they can look at this or that, I'd more than likely be fine with it; a lot of the stuff doesn't take too long to look at, as long as they're not trying to read every book in Scarlet Monastery. :P
Also, if it's just a DPS wanting to take the time to look at stuff, I'd be fine with clearing trash without them while they observed whatever, most trash is pretty boring and can be 2-3 manned with a decent tank and healer.
Ronin Jan 15th 2010 12:03PM
I have to disagree, Matt. Sometimes the Dungeon Finder is the only way a low-level player can get a group together to run a dungeon. Just because _you_ want to blast through it doesn't mean that anyone with different goals is wrong to use the LFD.
IMO the new player gets the tie-breaking vote here. If there's a new person in the group and they're trying to get to know the dungeon, I feel the more experienced player should bear with them. How else are they going to learn?
Ronin Jan 15th 2010 12:07PM
Actually, after reading your follow-up posts I don't think we disagree that much after all ;) Sounds like you'd be willing to slow the pace for that new person. To me this is what it's about-- working together to accomplish the group's purposes. That should include running the dungeon as it was designed, unless everyone agrees that they just want to speed through it.
cendrekai Jan 15th 2010 12:10PM
I recently ran Deadmines with a rogue. It was his first ever instance. He stuck with me and the tank after everyone left (twice). It was so much fun to be able to watch him AMAZED at all the elites and being able to give him tips like, "Stay behind the mob" and "OH GOD do NOT stealth and look ahead," He was a good kid that rogue.