Drama Mamas: Spoilsport speed demons
by Lisa Poisso 
Jan 15th 2010 at 11:00AM
What happens when the Dungeon Finder matches up a group of players with the right mix of roles but the wrong mix of goals? Who "wins" when veteran players want to speed-run a lower-level instance, while the new players want to savor every surprise and puzzle over every trick? Lisa and Robin are on different sides of the fence this week. No matter which philosophy rings true for you, it's something worth agreeing on with the rest of the group at the beginning of the run.
Dear Drama Mamas: Having played a mage for the last 18 months, I decided to level my first alt, a priest. I ran into unexpected drama problems running my priest in the entry level instances using the random Dungeon Finder. You've offered excellent commentary on issues arising in endgame instances. I am soliciting your insight on conflict unique to the low-end random instances.
In contrast to endgame instances, where gear issues arise, random entry-level instances are mixing highly experienced players with people who are new to World of Warcraft. The principal conflict that arises is the first group wants to get geared and leveled as quickly as possible. The new players are there to experience what the instance offers. The first wants to run the instance quickly, the second need time. Regards, Anonymous
When in Scarlet Monastery ...Drama Mama Lisa: Speed runs in level 80 instances have become a fact of life. True, there could be a fresh 80 in the group who would prefer time to gawk and peer and sniff around each corner. Still, the reality is that level 80 instances are once again part of the end game -- and the end game is packed with players who've seen it all a dozen times before.
Lower-level instances, however, are a different matter altogether. If you're in a pre-80 instance pushing for speed, blasting past scripted encounters and strong-arming instance mechanics -- and there are new players in the group who'd like to enjoy the full dungeon experience ... Well, you're no different than the obnoxious, popcorn-munching nerf herders behind you in the movie theater cackling "Oh-oh-oh wait, wait! Here's where the treasure falls out of the plane and is lost forever! Watch ... watch ... There! HAHAHA! And the masked man turns out to be the dude's best friend! HAHAHA! And -- oh, what? Hey! Hey! I couldn't hear what they were saying! HAHAHA! Oh, well. It doesn't matter, because I already told you the girl dies in the end, anyway! HAHAHA!"
/insert female Draenei laugh here
You know that saying about "when in Rome ..."? It goes for WoW, too. When you're in Scarlet Monastery, do as the Scarlet Monastery-level players do. Don't be a spoilsport with spoilers and speed-running.
That leaves jaded alts with a few alternatives:
- Offer to explain and narrate as you go. Some new players might actually prefer a safe, speedy encounter, as long as you allow them to get an eyeful of the major points of interest along the way.
- Try another group. Drop out of this group and take your chances with another batch of players. Why not kick the slowbie(s) instead? Because it's you who's created a "problem" by wanting to run the content in a special way. Just how rotten would it be to get kicked from every instance you queue up for because there are too many vets around who'd prefer a speed run? When in Scarlet Monastery ...
- Form your own group. Find some friends on your own server to level up as a team. A little friendly support coupled with a little friendly competition goes a long way in spicing up the umpteenth road to 80.
- Slow down and smell the roses. Check out all the little touches you never had time for before. Savor reminiscing about encounters you know like the back of your hand. And remember crowd control? Rediscover the skill -- or make yourself a more versatile player by learning it for the first time, if you've never had the opportunity until now.
- Stick to questing. Questing allows you to run at your own pace all the way to the top.
Drama Mama Robin: I love instance leveling, but this speed-run/slow-enjoy discrepancy can definitely be a problem. One of the things causing it is the tendency for the same dungeon to come up over and over when you are in a certain level range. In the early 30s, for example, Scarlet Monastery Graveyard will come up every time until you level out of it. Trying to find fellow PUGgers willing to do anything but speed run on the fourth time through in an hour is near impossible. But I also have found that many long-time players are enjoying seeing the dungeons in appropriately leveled groups (as opposed to being run through by a max-level friend).
You can have the run you want in two simple steps:
- Announce your intentions Right at the beginning of the instance, state whether you want to be a speednik or a rubbernecker.
- Be democratic I disagree with Lisa in that I don't think all lower level instances should be slower and spoiler-free by default. So after step 1, take a vote. If you're in the minority, drop out. If you're in the majority, recommend that outvoted players drop. Vote-kick if necessary.
Players with max-level characters have another option for seeing a dungeon at their own pace. Whether you want to get the lay of the place for easier speed runs or experience the story, you can solo the dungeon on your 80. Not only will you see it the way you want to, you'll pick up some fun Achievements along the way. I highly recommend this for parents while your kids are awake, too. You can see the dungeon with as many interruptions as you want and save the uninterrupted play session for the Dungeon Finder.
Hey, Dungeon Finder queue-hoppers: Please don't queue as a tank or healer if you're relying on another gear set to get you in the front door. You're not pulling the wool over anyone's eyes by signing up for a role you're not geared, specced or experienced enough to handle. If you're legitimately aiming to buff up your tanking or healing offspec, start out in normal modes and simpler instances until you get the hang of things. We guarantee you'll catch up in no time.
Remember, your mama wouldn't want to see your name on any drama. Play nice ... and when in doubt, ask the Drama Mamas at DramaMamas (at) WoW (dot) com.Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Tips, WoW Social Conventions, Virtual selves, Instances, Features, Leveling, Drama Mamas
Reader Comments (Page 3 of 5)
jbodar Jan 15th 2010 6:18PM
Someone a while back suggested in The Queue that Blizzard implement a toggle on the Dungeon Finder tool to allow for Emblem farmers who massively outgear the instance to only get grouped with each other to reduce the "Pfft, only 2000 DPS? /votekick" syndrome.
Maybe they could introduce one to match up newer players who want to explore Gnomer or Mara for the first time -- and may the Force be with them if they do.
Broken Bottle Jan 15th 2010 11:27AM
"Who "wins" when veteran players want to speed-run a lower-level instance, while the new players want to savor every surprise and puzzle over every trick?"
I've run into this a lot on the random finder. As a LV80 hunter, it just makes me feel like a prop on the tank's personal instance run when they dash out and start drawing aggro so fast that you can barely keep them in sight. I've been through all the heroics enough to not care all that much now but some days I want to feel like I'm actually playing a game and not *just* trying to collect emblems...
Percinho Jan 15th 2010 11:27AM
What!? The girl dies in the end!? Ah man, where was the spoiler alert!!
KT Jan 19th 2010 1:07AM
I think the actual problem is that you are deciding what people are "supposed" to do. People might have different ideas about what they are supposed to do. There's no problem except that people should get on the same page about their main goal. If you only have 45 minutes so you want to get through quickly, say so. Likewise if it's someone's first run and they'd like to be able to look around and see everything, they should say so. Of course no one person gets to control what the group does, but no one is automatically more "right" in how they are approaching the activity just because they've played longer.
Perhaps the reason that "elitism" has to be addressed so much is this attitude that the way you like to play is the way people are "supposed" to play. No one should hold back a group, but no one should also be made to feel that they are playing "wrong" just because they'd like to have the same experiences that you had as a new player seeing content for the first time but didn't start playing until everyone had mostly seen that original content.
KT Jan 19th 2010 1:15AM
Ergh that was supposed to be a reply to the next thread of comments :(
Xandaria Jan 15th 2010 11:34AM
Yet another week of the drama mamas calling anyone who doesn't want to babysit new/undergeared/dumb people elitist and a problem. This is getting kinda old, I miss when I used to enjoy this column.
wow fan Jan 15th 2010 11:41AM
Things are so watered down and bland :(
I am not a fan of jerks in runs but sometimes a bad player is a bad player and they are clueless why the get vote kicked daily.. A simple "you have a 4400 gear score and doing 800 DPS.. wth?" may help. Or maybe just theraputic for you :)
Plus it gets so annoying to have to carry 3 people through a heroic. Lower level instances, sure you be more forgiving and a bit more patient, but not everyone has 6 hours to play wow each day and need to maximize their playtime.
Just seems their advice is always "huggy feely" and one sided.
Xandaria Jan 15th 2010 11:53AM
I agree totally, and lower level dungeons, I do cut people some slack, but generally, any help or advice I try to give to anyone in LFG is met with name calling and asshattery. The Drama Mamas never address that sometimes the more skilled players do try to help, and get insulted and abused. It's all "oh be nice to the scrubs" what they fail to mention is a lot of the time the "scrubs" are just plain jerks who don't care about the group and want to be carried.
Nick F Jan 15th 2010 12:09PM
I agree. I love lore, but if someone in my group were demanding that we run a dungeon slower so they could "take in the lore," I'd call that person selfish and a bad team-player. Similarly, when someone can't be bothered to learn how to play their class well, it puts the onus on players who actually put in extracurricular time to carry them. I don't like the idea that we have to be nicey-nice to every player who manages to get to 80 without discovering the resources, lore and otherwise, available to them, which seems to be the point of every Drama Mama article recedntly. If you want to run deadmines for the shocking plot twists, maybe you shouldn't use the random dungeon player tool, where the assumption is that everyone is going to do their best to fulfill their roles and complete the dungeon ASAP.
Robin Torres Jan 15th 2010 12:46PM
Awww. Did none of you read my advice? I said take a vote! Speed-running instances is just as valid as taking the sightseeing tour.
Or are you all saying that voting is bad too? You think that players should have no say at all in how they run instances and speed-running is the only way?
Xandaria Jan 15th 2010 12:57PM
I read your advice, I was more complaining about the way all this advice is worded. It's like we're big mean elitists for not wanting to hold people's hands through WoW. You never explore the other side, when the supposed "elitist" has spent 10 minutes trying to explain to the new person the way a fight works, or how their gear could use a little work, or just general common sense like not pulling things before the tank, and gets chewed out and abused for even trying to help. It's all "elitists are mean, we should all love each other and hold hands and huggle people." I don't want to spend 4 hrs in a dungeon because someone else isn't doing their job, most people don't have that long of a time to play, or have other things to do. Your advice never takes that side into account. Taking a vote would generally waste more time, and usually not accomplish anything, because 90% of people in LFG never even say anything in group chat, much less answer to a vote.
Robin Torres Jan 15th 2010 1:05PM
Xandaria, how long does it take to say "Are we speedrunning this or sightseeing?" "Yeah, I want to speedrun too. Let's go!" Or "This is my first time, I'll wait for the next group." And if no one answers, assume speedrun and go or drop accordingly.
This takes into account all types of players except the ones who feel that all instances should be speedrun without question.
Xandaria Jan 15th 2010 1:14PM
Most groups a simple "Everyone ready?" is met with no reply, LFG is not communicative, in the least. Just about anything said is generally met with someone being rude, or nothing at all. I'm not sure how this question has any relation to my main point of all the Drama Mama columns lately being about elitist meanieheads, and the poor noobs we abuse.
Hoggersbud Jan 15th 2010 4:19PM
Mod parent up.
Seriously, what would it take to get somebody who defends the elitist as a columnist? I don't mind that other people have different opinions, but is it too much to ask for a fair and balanced perspective?
Xandaria Jan 15th 2010 4:34PM
I don't even really consider myself all that elitist, I play on an RP server, and am not in a big raid guild. I just expect the 4 other people in my groups to use common courtesy, and be reasonably geared and specced for the dungeon they are in, and know the basics of their class. I don't expect more of anyone else than I do of myself. I wouldn't expect a group to hold my hand and baby me, I pull my own weight and expect it of the four otehr people in the group. It's selfish to expect the four other people to lose out on their enjoyment of their play time because I can't be bothered to learn what I should be doing.
Xandaria Jan 15th 2010 6:57PM
Since all my comments have been down ranked, I have been inspired to actually put my rants somewhere I won't be censored. xandaria.wordpress.com, if anyone cares. Having a different opinion makes me a meaniehead.
Kylenne Jan 15th 2010 7:02PM
Did you know Sephiroth kills Aerith at the end of Disc 1? Vader is Luke's father. And Rosebud is a sled.
In all seriousness Robin, if people want a say in the pace of a dungeon run, they should roll a tank or heals. It's really that simple, and I say that as a DPS main. Also, LOL at the idea of demanding to be "un-spoiled" for a five year old game. Yes, there's still new people starting everyday, but you know, I started this game midway through the BC era, and am a major lorehound (being one of those weird people that obsessively played the RTS games long before WoW was even thought of), and even I was not entitlement whorey enough to demand 4 other people cater to my desire to lollygag in old assed content that most people in the game have done a million times. Somehow WoW was not ruined forever and ever for me.
I hate to get in on this dogpile, but I'm really feeling like this column is getting increasingly irrelevant to the general WoW population and is just basically just a platform for y'all to keep this nonsense "Elitist" vs. "Casuals" stuff going. With everyone who points out that "casual" does not have to mean half-assed or entitlement whorey getting lumped into the former category, deservedly or not. It's getting kind of old, and just a tad hypocritical considering the Editor's note on Guildwatch 2.0 saying you guys want to focus on positivity. Just saying.
Robin Torres Jan 16th 2010 12:38AM
To insist that all dungeons be speedrun without communication or choice is not elitist, it's fascist.
To suggest that a quick "Anyone not ok with a speedrun say so now!" at the beginning of a dungeon to avoid drama is not being anti-elitist, or casual or carebear. It's just being smart.
Xandaria Jan 16th 2010 8:15AM
Again the point goes sailing right over your head. It's not the question I'm objecting to, it's the attitude the column seems to have taken on that anyone who does what they're supposed to, and expects the same from others is "elitist" and a mean person. Casual=self entitled lazy spoiled brat who wants to inconvenience 4 other people, by your definition. We're supposed to bend over backwards for them, and you never ever address the other side of it. The 4 other people who just want to play the game, and not spend three times as long holding someone else's hand. You never address the rudeness and "anti-elitist" sentiments some "casuals" seem to have, you just treat anyone who doesn't want to play happy shiny kindergarten time as the bad guy. Casual should not mean "I don't care about ever being a useful member of a group." it should mean someone who plays less. Your attitudes about this "elitist vs casual" nonsense is completely against what your column is supposed to be about. I expect this comment to be voted down too, because having an opinion that doesn't match yours makes me wrong.
Fatamorgana Jan 15th 2010 11:31AM
There are a three problems inherent with the LFG system; both being the players.
The first issue I've noticed is the large populace of Fail Tanks. Not to discredit REAL tanks out there, but rather to point the finger at DPS faux-Tanks. Retadins, Cats, and Furiors aren't Tanks and queing as such just to get a fast group is an insult to the other DPSers as well as the healers who have to keep you up as your health leaks out of a full-plate colander. Healers and DPS should inspect their tanks and, if they aren't Prot or Feral-Bear Specced, initiate a kick post haste.
The second issue are the players who ARE DPS but "pretend" to be Tanks. Mage/Lock/Hunter pulls. Often times causing the group to wipe because there is no threat-management. If you have a threat-meter and you're about to pull from the tank, drop aggro if you can, switch to a new target, oh hold off a bit. Not doing so doesn't make you leet DPS...it just makes you the next candidate on the kick vote.
The third issue are the elitist jerks who try to dictate how things are going to be done with their "my way or the highway" attitude. They usually fling insults and accusations with little restraint and think they're superior to everyone else. Worse...they usually travel in twos. (Probably for emotional support) These are usually harder to deal with because, even if you kick one, the other remains to cause more grief. And luckily for him, he can't be subject for a kick vote for a while after his friend leaves.
I think many of these issues could be resolved if the had a player-voted scoring system in place. Bad players get down-voted. Good players get up-voted. People with similar scores get paired in groups. Win-win.
D'ems my two cents.