Drama Mamas: Spoilsport speed demons

What happens when the Dungeon Finder matches up a group of players with the right mix of roles but the wrong mix of goals? Who "wins" when veteran players want to speed-run a lower-level instance, while the new players want to savor every surprise and puzzle over every trick? Lisa and Robin are on different sides of the fence this week. No matter which philosophy rings true for you, it's something worth agreeing on with the rest of the group at the beginning of the run.
Dear Drama Mamas: Having played a mage for the last 18 months, I decided to level my first alt, a priest. I ran into unexpected drama problems running my priest in the entry level instances using the random Dungeon Finder. You've offered excellent commentary on issues arising in endgame instances. I am soliciting your insight on conflict unique to the low-end random instances.
In contrast to endgame instances, where gear issues arise, random entry-level instances are mixing highly experienced players with people who are new to World of Warcraft. The principal conflict that arises is the first group wants to get geared and leveled as quickly as possible. The new players are there to experience what the instance offers. The first wants to run the instance quickly, the second need time. Regards, Anonymous
When in Scarlet Monastery ...Drama Mama Lisa: Speed runs in level 80 instances have become a fact of life. True, there could be a fresh 80 in the group who would prefer time to gawk and peer and sniff around each corner. Still, the reality is that level 80 instances are once again part of the end game -- and the end game is packed with players who've seen it all a dozen times before.
Lower-level instances, however, are a different matter altogether. If you're in a pre-80 instance pushing for speed, blasting past scripted encounters and strong-arming instance mechanics -- and there are new players in the group who'd like to enjoy the full dungeon experience ... Well, you're no different than the obnoxious, popcorn-munching nerf herders behind you in the movie theater cackling "Oh-oh-oh wait, wait! Here's where the treasure falls out of the plane and is lost forever! Watch ... watch ... There! HAHAHA! And the masked man turns out to be the dude's best friend! HAHAHA! And -- oh, what? Hey! Hey! I couldn't hear what they were saying! HAHAHA! Oh, well. It doesn't matter, because I already told you the girl dies in the end, anyway! HAHAHA!"
/insert female Draenei laugh here
You know that saying about "when in Rome ..."? It goes for WoW, too. When you're in Scarlet Monastery, do as the Scarlet Monastery-level players do. Don't be a spoilsport with spoilers and speed-running.
That leaves jaded alts with a few alternatives:
- Offer to explain and narrate as you go. Some new players might actually prefer a safe, speedy encounter, as long as you allow them to get an eyeful of the major points of interest along the way.
- Try another group. Drop out of this group and take your chances with another batch of players. Why not kick the slowbie(s) instead? Because it's you who's created a "problem" by wanting to run the content in a special way. Just how rotten would it be to get kicked from every instance you queue up for because there are too many vets around who'd prefer a speed run? When in Scarlet Monastery ...
- Form your own group. Find some friends on your own server to level up as a team. A little friendly support coupled with a little friendly competition goes a long way in spicing up the umpteenth road to 80.
- Slow down and smell the roses. Check out all the little touches you never had time for before. Savor reminiscing about encounters you know like the back of your hand. And remember crowd control? Rediscover the skill -- or make yourself a more versatile player by learning it for the first time, if you've never had the opportunity until now.
- Stick to questing. Questing allows you to run at your own pace all the way to the top.

Drama Mama Robin: I love instance leveling, but this speed-run/slow-enjoy discrepancy can definitely be a problem. One of the things causing it is the tendency for the same dungeon to come up over and over when you are in a certain level range. In the early 30s, for example, Scarlet Monastery Graveyard will come up every time until you level out of it. Trying to find fellow PUGgers willing to do anything but speed run on the fourth time through in an hour is near impossible. But I also have found that many long-time players are enjoying seeing the dungeons in appropriately leveled groups (as opposed to being run through by a max-level friend).
You can have the run you want in two simple steps:
- Announce your intentions Right at the beginning of the instance, state whether you want to be a speednik or a rubbernecker.
- Be democratic I disagree with Lisa in that I don't think all lower level instances should be slower and spoiler-free by default. So after step 1, take a vote. If you're in the minority, drop out. If you're in the majority, recommend that outvoted players drop. Vote-kick if necessary.
Players with max-level characters have another option for seeing a dungeon at their own pace. Whether you want to get the lay of the place for easier speed runs or experience the story, you can solo the dungeon on your 80. Not only will you see it the way you want to, you'll pick up some fun Achievements along the way. I highly recommend this for parents while your kids are awake, too. You can see the dungeon with as many interruptions as you want and save the uninterrupted play session for the Dungeon Finder.

Hey, Dungeon Finder queue-hoppers: Please don't queue as a tank or healer if you're relying on another gear set to get you in the front door. You're not pulling the wool over anyone's eyes by signing up for a role you're not geared, specced or experienced enough to handle. If you're legitimately aiming to buff up your tanking or healing offspec, start out in normal modes and simpler instances until you get the hang of things. We guarantee you'll catch up in no time.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Tips, WoW Social Conventions, Virtual selves, Instances, Features, Leveling, Drama Mamas






Reader Comments (Page 4 of 5)
ZMES_Matt Jan 15th 2010 11:45AM
/agree 100%
I think the player scoring system also needs to be so only people NOT on your server can vote for you, that way players can't have their friends inflate their scores. Also, make it a 1-5 score or something of the sort and if someone falls below 2 they can no longer use the dungeon finder tool, at least for a certain period of time.
Fatamorgana Jan 15th 2010 11:55AM
@ZMES_Matt
Good points. What could work is if the votes dropped after three months.
In that way, a player who shows improvement doesn't get left in the basement for his/her efforts.
And I don't think bad players should be kept out of the LFG circuit. With this rating system, they would be playing with people just like them.
cendrekai Jan 15th 2010 12:05PM
I am a up and coming priest, and if someone in the group is causing trouble, I have no problem dropping them. Especially DPS. Ones who decide THEY want to pull, I will not heal them and let them wipe (after fair warning of course). If they continue to pull, I will Vote Kick them, DPS are a dime a dozen. Tanks are a bit harder to replace, but a SFK group with 3 hunters and a priest, we were able to keep moving through till a tank was found.
Barinthos Jan 15th 2010 12:11PM
The voting system would be amazing!
And unless i'm mistaken trading between cross server people isn't possible is it? Because if it was I could see the less savory people down voting people unless they get paid to up-vote.
"If you give me 20g I'll give you a 5...if you don't give me anything you get a 1. So what's it going to be?"
Ozzard Jan 15th 2010 12:33PM
Expect to see a long and detailed blog post from me over the weekend on a voting system plus add-on that takes "people like me like..." into account. A straight "vote up" or "vote down" is of marginal use, as a) in reality people would only ever vote down the irritating people to them and b) one person's irritant is another person's Best Player Ever. It's all relative.
Once written, I'll try to persuade the good folks here to link it in TDQ so that I can get comments.
I'll be able to write the database part and client part (it'll need an updater that runs on the user's machine to get best use out of the data). I'd love to find a partner who could write the add-on, or there was one add-on here that remembered information from pugs that would make an ideal partner.
Watch this space -->
Dysmorphia Jan 15th 2010 2:53PM
At low levels you most emphatically do not need to be tank or heal spec to tank or heal. When I leveled my druid I successful healed in feral spec in healing gear until Outland. And I wasn't some kind of pro player; this was my first character. Things may be a little bit more unforgiving for tanks, but going through the leveling-instances again recently I have found that I could heal any spec warrior, druid, or paladin while myself as an enhancement shaman in spell gear until about level 40. Yes, of course it was easier if they were prot, but the difference isn't all that big.
So I wish people wouldn't apply the min-maxing principles of endgame raiding to tanking and healing leveling instances. They are a lot more forgiving of gear and spec.
You can do what you want and vote to kick people from lowbie instances if they don't meet your criteria, but that kind of attitude discourages players from trying out new roles that they might enjoy and be good at.
corvaal Jan 15th 2010 2:55PM
I agree!
The ability to vote someone down would be huge!
I ran with a warrior the other day in full holy pally gear :(
I think I died a little. I get tired of having to carry people, sure if its just gear or a new 80 but sometimes jeez.. a person has to take responsibility for their toon a little right?
Snuzzle Feb 12th 2010 5:39PM
@Dysmorphia
I don't care if the tank isn't prot, but unless you're all twinked out (and even in some cases if you are) for the love of god, at least wear a shield.
You can be completely in your ret/fury gear. I don't care if you only have one piece with stamina on it. I don't care if you "get more threat" with your heirloom Arcanite Reaper. Just...wear...the...shield. The healer is begging you.
Fatamorgana Jan 15th 2010 11:35AM
*both = all three
/Edit fail
Res Jan 15th 2010 11:38AM
I couldn't agree more.. I was in a group last week with a highly geared, highly experienced and obviously highly impatient Pally tank in a dungeon. Unfortunately the rest of the group was not so well geared or experienced so when he insisted on pulling nearly the entire beginning of the dungeon along with the first boss, things didn't go well.
Rather than adjusting his style, he kept it up, and after the healer wasn't able to keep anyone up but the tank a couple more times I had to leave the group since he wouldn't slow down. The random rewards just weren't worth what my repair bill was going to be by the end of it.
bennet Jan 15th 2010 11:52AM
"Whether you want to get the lay of the place for easier speed runs or experience the story, you can solo the dungeon on your 80."
Somehow, in my experience at least, having an 80 along on a lower-level instance hasn't been very fulfilling from a story perspective. We used to do that for new guildies on occasion, and even though we kept quiet and let them experience the surprises, it all had a manufactured feel to it - as though a non-trivial component of story enjoyment, in an interactive environment like WoW at least, is the risk that goes with it. Remove the risk and the story becomes somewhat trivial...
edgesumaria Jan 15th 2010 12:56PM
@bennet: She isn't suggesting you have a level 80 run you through the instance, she is sugguesting that if you have a level 80 and want to see the dungeon at your own pace, solo it. If you ask and 80 to run you, you are expecting a quick run and do not care about the storyline. You just want to get the loot and be done with it. Soloing, while the content will be trivial, you can still take your time and enjoy it.
erines Jan 15th 2010 11:57AM
Aside from a couple of small things in LFG getting me a little mad, like Lock's who wont SS a healer, or a Pally Tank? in...healing gear. I have had nothing but awesome experiences in randoms. Had some speed runs, np for me but sometimes catches one of the DPS off guard. Being a straight healer I get groups, heroics or normal quite fast. The people like I have said have been mostly awesome. If your a lock who wont SS or a tank in healing gear or a DK DPS who stacks SP and you run into me and my tank friend you will be vote /kicked immediately. Which is to say, remember your roll , learn your class, and use what the Blizz gods gave you to help your group succeed. All in all its all good, well except for that one Lock who rolled "need" on a plate healing chest. Said he was gonna give it to his warrior LOL. Had no time to explain Soulbound to him.
John Jan 15th 2010 12:36PM
Your anecdote seems specious.
I am pretty sure that a warlock would not be able to roll "need" on a plate item since the loot roll system in randoms is set up to allow "need" only on items the character can use.
Also, if an item is a "lower" armor type than your character uses, you cannot roll need on it: my shaman cannot roll need on leather spellpower items (they usually have spirit anyways, no biggie).
I am not sure how the restrictions apply to rings/neck/trinkets that have attack power and whether a mage/lock could need on them.
Ydrisselle Jan 15th 2010 3:00PM
@John: you can roll Need for any armor in the vanilla instances. The Need before Greed is only active from outland.
Mau Jan 15th 2010 4:57PM
An option is that after the group clears the instance, the people can backtrack and sightsee.
Glenn Jan 15th 2010 12:21PM
I have a shammy, and am used to the speed running people do with my current 80 (yep only have 1, for now). i actually realized I was being rude when a dwarf tank waited for us to mana up after an OOM fight. I was saying "r" (the short curt method of saying ready), and he kept on chugging along.
SOOOOoooo, it is a sad state of affairs when I was smacked in the face that I no longer expect courtesy or any such behaviour that I now act badly with some one who didn't get that memo: being nice doesn't exist anymore.
I wish I remember the tanks name, he was really a great tank. I hope others will remember to say thank you to the people who keep cohesion and be grateful for a good PUG, they aren't as common as we would like.
JB Jan 15th 2010 1:02PM
oh wow. I could have expected that some-one would like to put in a voting system - this is PURELY subjective. How does one define a "bad" player? What you see as one and I see as one could be completely different. Raiders could down vote casuals as they have poorer gear and often play specs they enjoy. Some-one learning the ropes of their class or new spec would be "bad" player for some people. What about the tank who constantly forgets to let the healer mana up? The player who doesn't have heirloom gear or the one who doesn't have the funds to buy the best gear for their level? The one who is moving so fast that you don't have time to loot? The one who is gearing up?
Most of my experiences have been good with the LFG - I'm levelling a DPS DK and a lock. I have a level 80 and I have never run mana tombs on my main- was an interesting/fun experience. We had a bunch of newbies and vets[on alts], who were advising what to expect so it was a really great run [at a middle of the road pace so one could gawk if you wanted to]- one of my best runs on my alts. This, to me, is what the LFG is about.
The solution to "vets" and new players would be to give an option on the tool itself. So..flag "vet" and that way you could get your speed runs. If you don't, then expect the "discovery" experience. In fact, they could customize the tool even further such as a "farming" flag [for badges] etc etc.
Adeany Jan 15th 2010 1:36PM
Incoming scrubs flagging as vets to get carried through content by raiders.
Corvana Jan 15th 2010 1:21PM
"[...]obnoxious, popcorn-munching nerf herders[...]"
Who's popcorn-munching?!?!?!
Sorry, couldn't resist...