Drama Mamas: Spoilsport speed demons
by Lisa Poisso 
Jan 15th 2010 at 11:00AM
What happens when the Dungeon Finder matches up a group of players with the right mix of roles but the wrong mix of goals? Who "wins" when veteran players want to speed-run a lower-level instance, while the new players want to savor every surprise and puzzle over every trick? Lisa and Robin are on different sides of the fence this week. No matter which philosophy rings true for you, it's something worth agreeing on with the rest of the group at the beginning of the run.
Dear Drama Mamas: Having played a mage for the last 18 months, I decided to level my first alt, a priest. I ran into unexpected drama problems running my priest in the entry level instances using the random Dungeon Finder. You've offered excellent commentary on issues arising in endgame instances. I am soliciting your insight on conflict unique to the low-end random instances.
In contrast to endgame instances, where gear issues arise, random entry-level instances are mixing highly experienced players with people who are new to World of Warcraft. The principal conflict that arises is the first group wants to get geared and leveled as quickly as possible. The new players are there to experience what the instance offers. The first wants to run the instance quickly, the second need time. Regards, Anonymous
When in Scarlet Monastery ...Drama Mama Lisa: Speed runs in level 80 instances have become a fact of life. True, there could be a fresh 80 in the group who would prefer time to gawk and peer and sniff around each corner. Still, the reality is that level 80 instances are once again part of the end game -- and the end game is packed with players who've seen it all a dozen times before.
Lower-level instances, however, are a different matter altogether. If you're in a pre-80 instance pushing for speed, blasting past scripted encounters and strong-arming instance mechanics -- and there are new players in the group who'd like to enjoy the full dungeon experience ... Well, you're no different than the obnoxious, popcorn-munching nerf herders behind you in the movie theater cackling "Oh-oh-oh wait, wait! Here's where the treasure falls out of the plane and is lost forever! Watch ... watch ... There! HAHAHA! And the masked man turns out to be the dude's best friend! HAHAHA! And -- oh, what? Hey! Hey! I couldn't hear what they were saying! HAHAHA! Oh, well. It doesn't matter, because I already told you the girl dies in the end, anyway! HAHAHA!"
/insert female Draenei laugh here
You know that saying about "when in Rome ..."? It goes for WoW, too. When you're in Scarlet Monastery, do as the Scarlet Monastery-level players do. Don't be a spoilsport with spoilers and speed-running.
That leaves jaded alts with a few alternatives:
- Offer to explain and narrate as you go. Some new players might actually prefer a safe, speedy encounter, as long as you allow them to get an eyeful of the major points of interest along the way.
- Try another group. Drop out of this group and take your chances with another batch of players. Why not kick the slowbie(s) instead? Because it's you who's created a "problem" by wanting to run the content in a special way. Just how rotten would it be to get kicked from every instance you queue up for because there are too many vets around who'd prefer a speed run? When in Scarlet Monastery ...
- Form your own group. Find some friends on your own server to level up as a team. A little friendly support coupled with a little friendly competition goes a long way in spicing up the umpteenth road to 80.
- Slow down and smell the roses. Check out all the little touches you never had time for before. Savor reminiscing about encounters you know like the back of your hand. And remember crowd control? Rediscover the skill -- or make yourself a more versatile player by learning it for the first time, if you've never had the opportunity until now.
- Stick to questing. Questing allows you to run at your own pace all the way to the top.
Drama Mama Robin: I love instance leveling, but this speed-run/slow-enjoy discrepancy can definitely be a problem. One of the things causing it is the tendency for the same dungeon to come up over and over when you are in a certain level range. In the early 30s, for example, Scarlet Monastery Graveyard will come up every time until you level out of it. Trying to find fellow PUGgers willing to do anything but speed run on the fourth time through in an hour is near impossible. But I also have found that many long-time players are enjoying seeing the dungeons in appropriately leveled groups (as opposed to being run through by a max-level friend).
You can have the run you want in two simple steps:
- Announce your intentions Right at the beginning of the instance, state whether you want to be a speednik or a rubbernecker.
- Be democratic I disagree with Lisa in that I don't think all lower level instances should be slower and spoiler-free by default. So after step 1, take a vote. If you're in the minority, drop out. If you're in the majority, recommend that outvoted players drop. Vote-kick if necessary.
Players with max-level characters have another option for seeing a dungeon at their own pace. Whether you want to get the lay of the place for easier speed runs or experience the story, you can solo the dungeon on your 80. Not only will you see it the way you want to, you'll pick up some fun Achievements along the way. I highly recommend this for parents while your kids are awake, too. You can see the dungeon with as many interruptions as you want and save the uninterrupted play session for the Dungeon Finder.
Hey, Dungeon Finder queue-hoppers: Please don't queue as a tank or healer if you're relying on another gear set to get you in the front door. You're not pulling the wool over anyone's eyes by signing up for a role you're not geared, specced or experienced enough to handle. If you're legitimately aiming to buff up your tanking or healing offspec, start out in normal modes and simpler instances until you get the hang of things. We guarantee you'll catch up in no time.
Remember, your mama wouldn't want to see your name on any drama. Play nice ... and when in doubt, ask the Drama Mamas at DramaMamas (at) WoW (dot) com.Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Tips, WoW Social Conventions, Virtual selves, Instances, Features, Leveling, Drama Mamas
Reader Comments (Page 5 of 5)
Furious Kalleck Jan 15th 2010 2:56PM
/chewbacca laugh
Hurf hurf hurf
Hiwa Jan 15th 2010 1:44PM
As somebody leveling up a newish resto druid (lvl 72 now) solely through the lfg system, I'm surprised and a bit depressed to say that the #1 biggest problem I've run into has been tanks. It's gotten a bit better as I've gotten higher up, but I still run into a majority of tanks who can't hold aggro, don't wait for the healer, or just generally don't know what they're doing.
I can get a pretty good idea of how an instance is going to go from the first pull. If I've immediately got to barkskin and start healing myself, I know I'm in for a lot of mana-intensive work. And what's sad about that is the tank/dps who can't keep mobs off the healer often don't wait for the healer to recover from everything she's just gone through to avoid a wipe. If I've innervated, popped a pot, and still gone oom on a trash pull then I'm going to sit and drink--I have no choice. And if I look at the minimap and see a bunch of dots 2 rooms away, or look at healbot and see healthbars steadily going down, all I can do is /facepalm and wonder if it's all worth it.
So Mr. Speedy Tank--it's not just the slow-poke noobs who are holding you back. Sometimes it's your own inability to look at the other members of your party that makes a run go slow. Wipe recovery takes time after all.
Ohlaf Jan 15th 2010 2:40PM
As a player who has multiple 80s and has seen it before, I still really enjoy revisiting the old stuff as I'm leveling for me it's part of learning a new class part of the experience. There are two kinds of players those that believe the game doesn't start until your level 80 all geared in epics and those that think the game is all about the leveling and gearing experience. I'm the later of the two, the challanage and excitement of playing new toon is what really makes warcraft great. This seems to be lost now with heirlooms speed runs in SM etc. Guys is there a sudden rush to get to 80? I like to enjoy the fullness of the game and having someone rush and be pushy in a run kinda spoils it.
Corvana Jan 15th 2010 3:19PM
@Furious
Laugh it up, fuzzball... :P
Gamer am I Jan 15th 2010 3:23PM
What we need is a check-box on the dungeon finder that allows you to check whether you want to do a speed run, a slow run, or either. When the window comes up telling you your role, it will also tell you whether you are doing a slow run or a fast run. I think that would solve 95% of the drama issues. Hell, I wouldn't mind doing a slow run on my tank main, just for a change of pace, even though I have nothing to gain from dungeons but the emblems. (I know this post is about low level dungeons, but that last sentence was a preemptive retort against people who would say that it would take longer to queue for a slow run because no one would want to do them.)
Gemini Jan 15th 2010 3:23PM
I was in a Sunken Temple group on my paladin tank. I was in the middle of rebuffing everyone when a druid ran too close to a pack of mobs and pulled, so after I'd finished off the group I said "Don't facepull."
From that moment on I got nothing but grief from the druid. The only thing I said to him was don't facepull, and from that he told me I need to chill out and extrapolated that I must be one of those tanks who thinks he's better than you and your mother because he's a tank and there's a shortage. This attitude continued through the entire dungeon. When I explained the Avatar of Hakkar fight (because the first time I'd done the fight on that toon, nobody knew about the bloods so I had to bark orders while picking up adds) I asked for everyone to say they understood because it was completely random who would get the bloods. I got confirmation from everyone except the druid. When I asked him if he understood, he goes "w/e i wasn't reading". He was, of course, he did his part of the job just fine, but he just ran through the entire dungeon with a chip on his shoulder.
Joke's on him. While I declined the many vote-kicks another member had initiated on him just cause we were almost done, I whispered the healer not to heal him. Come Shade of Eranikus, I get sleeped, and what does the boss do but go straight for the druid. I smile as I watch his HP go down and down and down. He never got a rez. And I got this: http://www.wowhead.com/?item=10847 :)
Snuzzle Feb 12th 2010 5:31PM
Ugh. The same thing happened to me the other night. I was practising tanking on my paladin (his gear is a mishmash of 232 iCC5 scraps, badge gear, and rep gear) and I zoned into the instance. I said "1 sec" so I could get my bars set up and get a little pep talk from my healer (who has an awesome pally tank alt) and the hunter said "go?" I didn't reply since I was, as I said, pulling spells from my book and tweaking this and that.
The hunter popped a MD on me and pulled. I made not a move to grab aggro from him, and when it was over I said "No, I said 1 sec and I did not say yes let's pull. Don't ever do that again."
To which he replied "Wow, your gear is way too crappy to be pulling the elitist tank attitude."
Seriously? Telling DPS not to pull for me, and when I am not ready at that, is elitist? Let it be noted that the time between my "1 sec" to his pull was all of about fifteen seconds.
Dunbar Jan 15th 2010 3:52PM
The speed of the run is determined by the tank, period. And this is from someone with a rogue main, so I'm not talking from a tank perspective (though I do tank on my pally). The tank decides when to pull the next group, and how fast your group will run. Any decent tank takes into account how good the DPS is doing and the healer's mana before taking on the next group.
Why is this the case? Tanks are in short supply. Short tank queue times illustrate that. Tanks have to actually know the instance and lead the way.
If you want to go slow and smell the roses, tell the tank. If he agrees, cool. If he doesn't...well, suck it up and speedrun or drop group and requeue later. Or, go tank spec if you can.
I'm not saying this is the way things should be, merely that given the system we have and the shortage of tanks, as well as the tank's role in the group, that this is the way the system works.
And as a side note...I do have an alt that is a pally tank, and yes I speedrun heroics. I get DPS telling me to wait for mana, and I ignore them. You want mana, sit and drink and catch up later. Same with if you want to skin/mine/whatever. As long as you don't fall more than 1 pull behind I could care less. I watch the healer's mana bar and will wait for them to drink. I'll pull faster or slower depending on the DPS of the group.
But when running an instance, the tank runs the show, and that's just as true on my rogue. If the tank is skipping a boss or running slow, well tough, I'm just DPS, and while I can do a lot of DPS I know I'm infinitely replaceable. I imagine those who complain about tanks don't have a tank themselves for the most part...try it sometime. I think you'll come around.
Hiwa Jan 15th 2010 4:08PM
I complain about tanks because I run behind them and heal them all day long. The healer/tank relationship has got to be smooth or the run suffers. So while I'll put up from a lot from a tank who's new and willing to learn, I'll put up with a lot less from a tank who thinks that because there's a tank shortage he runs the show and everybody else better snap to attention.
Btw, there's a pretty decent healer shortage out there too. My average queue time is less than 10 seconds. But healers seldom come in and say they're going to determine the pace of a run. I can't count the pally tanks I've run with who won't wait for me to drink when I'm oom, but the second they stop to drink the entire run has to wait it out.
Chris Anthony Jan 15th 2010 6:19PM
The tank can run as fast as he wants if he can heal himself while he's doing it. Otherwise, like it or not, it's the healer who determines the pace.
Kylenne Jan 15th 2010 7:04PM
Regardless of whether you think it's the tank or the healer that sets the pace (personally, it's the latter), I think everyone can agree that DPS ain't doing it. And I say this as a diehard DPS. That's just one of the perks to doing one of the more thankless jobs in this game.
Matt Jan 15th 2010 3:58PM
You know, some people like to challenge themselves as much as possible. Did any of you wonder if maybe the tank would like to have some fun too. These days, the only thing fun about running heroic nexus for the 500th time is seeing how fast you can clear it.
Kylenne Jan 15th 2010 7:26PM
Ah, but don't you see, YOUR fun doesn't matter, Mr. Tank. Casual is the new half-assed, and that's the only fun that matters.
/sigh
Hollow Leviathan Jan 15th 2010 5:54PM
I'm constantly amazed at the people who run instances to level, but actively attempt to pull as few mobs as possible. You know they're all worth XP/rep, right? It's more efficient if you kill them all, and isn't that what you're allegedly working for by trying to speed demo the place? Efficiency?
Keeva Jan 15th 2010 5:56PM
I got into a stocks run last night, and as soon as I zoned in, the dual-boxing mage/warlock barked for a heal. Then after the first few pulls, he said "I gtg soon, just skip to the boss".
"hurry, gtg"
"this way, the boss down here"
"hurry gogogo"
"just kill this boss"
"k we done"
So we only did half the instance (not even half, really), and those of us who maybe wanted the XP lost out. I've also had runs where someone joins, kills whatever it is they need for a quest, and just leaves.
In a BFD run, I said "I really quite like this instance, I'm glad the new dungeon finder makes it easier to run all of these old instances, I've missed them."
The rogue said, "I don't. Too long."
The "hurry hurry gogogoggogogog" attitude is really annoying.
Hiwa Jan 15th 2010 6:19PM
BFD was the first instance I ever did with a toon, ever, and just waiting around for the clumsy people (like me) who can't make it across the jumps in that broken bridge means you better not be in too much of a hurry.
Not only that but the lore in the place is pretty amazing, and it was the first place I, as a nooby lvl 18 night elf who never did pvp, actually got to fight a tauren. Gasp!
Snuzzle Feb 12th 2010 5:24PM
You know, you don't have to jump, you can swim across :D
Snuzzle Feb 12th 2010 5:23PM
Drama mammas: about the drama buster of the week.
We can't help it. The dungeon finder queues us as whateve our best gear is, regardless if it's for another role. I can heal any of the regular heroics fine on my druid. But I am not geared enough to heal the ICC 5 mans yet. I can tank them just fine, though, so the finder keeps putting me in there to heal when I click tank/heal.
I wish it wouldn't. But it does. I'm not going to miss out on 2 frost badges just because there are three dungeons that one of my specs is not geared enough to handle. Sorry.