Raid/PuG habits should be kept separate

Last night I and a couple of guildmates signed up for a frost run and we ended up with two DPS and popped into Azjol-Nerub. I'd got myself a new fist weapon on my shammy and wanted to punch things in the face. Half way through the run, the healer sent me a tell asking me to inspect the DPS warrior we'd picked up. And yes, he was DPSing in Prot, with all of his talent points in the protection tree, in a mix of tanking and PvP gear. Yes, his DPS was low (I believe the proper phrase would be 'ridiculously low') and yes, he ran and pulled Hadronox instead of letting the person signed up to tank do it, and brought all the adds over as well. I was all set to blow a gasket at him, when I realized that this was a PuG. I'd never see the guy again. I was putting out enough DPS to cover for him, as was the hunter in the group. We burned down Hadronox, I briefly explained to the guy what the adds did, he apologized as this was all still very new to him and it was his first 80.
This led to a brief discussion while we were heading down to kill Anub'arak.
If you raid a lot, you get used to certain things. People are expected to be familiar with their class, their role, and the talents used to accomplish said role. You keep your gear for your main role current and also it's a good idea to keep your offspec gear current as well (you never know when you'll be switching). You know the fights as best you can. These are almost hardwired assumptions that build up into dogma over time.
They have no place in the five man random PuG.
I am not arguing that you shouldn't do your best if you're running a pick up group. I'm arguing that you have no reason to hold the other four people to a standard of play they haven't signed up for or agreed to. Clicking a role in the random window is not the same thing as filling out a guild application. A lot of these players are learning the game by playing it: it's not fair to assume they're reading theorycrafting sites and working their gear always with an eye towards maximum performance. The prot warrior in the run I just mentioned? He was a decent guy, picked up WoW last year, plays it when he's got time. He heard that Prot was OP for PvP so he went Prot, doesn't know the talents very well (he played some in BC but then they changed everything on him) and was very excited when I mentioned various sites he could go to for better information on spec and gear.
Not every 'bad' player is really a bad player. Some are just players. (Some of course are very very bad. Then again, there are very very bad players in raid guilds progressing through content. It happens.) These people didn't make any kind of commitment the way raiders are expected to just because they signed up to a random with you. Would it be nice if they knew not to stand in poison clouds or to know which attack they should be using in their rotation? Yes, it would. But going crazy and posting meters and ranting accomplishes nothing.
Also, to be honest, sometimes it's the 'elite raiders' that hold heroics back. Take, for instance, the DPS who brags about putting out 7k DPS in Halls of Lightning. First off, the mobs in HoL die so fast that the only way you're putting out 7k DPS is by attacking before the tank has even sneezed at them, which means the tank (often me) hates you with the fire and intensity of a thousand suns. Yes, I managed to pick them up with Challenging Shout and spammed every threat move I could even think of while desperately trying to generate enough rage to keep it up, thanks for the carpal tunnel syndrome. We don't need 7k DPS from one player to get through HoL. Secondly, that 7k DPS was only achieved because things died before other DPS could hit them, because again, you're attacking before the tank. You're not a good player because you put out more DPS than everyone else when you do it in this manner.
5k DPS and remembering where MD or Tricks are, using utility abilities, and waiting for the tank to pull is vastly preferred to going hog freaking wild, popping all your cooldowns as soon as they're up and otherwise being a jerk, much less then posting your hyperinflated DPS meter and waving it in the faces of the DPS you consider sub-par. This goes for tanks, too. I've been the tank putting out more DPS than the undergeared DPS in the run I'm on. You know what? Nobody cares. You're highly geared, that dude's using the quest axe from Zul'Drak. Cut him some slack, and in so doing, cut yourself some slack.
You are not there to police everyone else's gear, spec and playstyle. You are not there to have to micromanage every aspect of the game. You are there for emblems, maybe some gear, and frankly it's too much time and work to expect everyone you PuG with to play the way you do. You'll be happier if you just play, ditch when you just can't take it anymore (people would much rather wait for a replacement than listen to a tirade about how awesome you are) and wait out the time until your next. Or go do something else. People who sign up to a random didn't sign up for boot camp in your private How to WoW seminar. If you can't be helpful, at least be polite. Getting worked up over a random PuG just ends up with you worked up. You'll probably never see those people again. If you end up with a hunter who tells you he doesn't have MD because he hasn't been to a trainer since level 60, it's really not going to magically fix things to scream at him over it. If he'll listen to you and you can explain what he can do to improve, great. If not, let it go.
This is a lesson I struggle with: let it go. Your expectations of other players who you do not know, have never played with, and may never see again simply cannot be as high as when you work progression raid content or blood will squirt out of your ears and nose. It's messy. There's nothing wrong with trying to be helpful: if you see a player making a mistake you might have made yourself once upon a time you can certainly try and politely suggest ways they can improve, if they want to. But don't expect them to do so simply because you say so, and don't get invested in it: they don't know you either. They don't owe you any more than you owe them, their best effort to clear the run smoothly.
Trust me -- in the long run, your blood pressure will thank you.
Filed under: Patches, Analysis / Opinion, Instances, Raiding, Leveling, Wrath of the Lich King
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Reader Comments (Page 5 of 13)
Kaz Jan 18th 2010 6:53PM
Back in BC and some parts of pre-3.3 Wrath I got to a point where I wasn't doing Heroics very much. Raiding covered my gear and progression needs just fine and it was hell trying to find groups sometimes.
During raids the MT would usually have 2-3 MDs/and or Tricks going on him, and he would usually have a GOOD threat lead before one of his abilities even landed. Unfortunately I got into the habit of quickly going into a max DPS rotaion as soon as the tank so much as smelled a mob.
During these times when I would do a heroic, I would more than likely get my faced ripped off by either a mob or a PO'd tank. I would profusely apologize, and try my damnedest not to do it again (at least not for that run).
The moral of the story: Be careful of those habits you pick up in raids. Raiding and Heroics have very different expectations. You don't need to do 6k dps on heroic trash, or try to smash enrage timers. You don't need to have everyone know all the ins and outs of there class and gear itemization. Just manage your expectations. Are things dying? Is your party living? Then everything is going good.
Usually I check the groups GS to determine how I need to perform. If I see a tank with a 3.5k GS then I know to hold back my DPS a bit to let him get and maintain threat. If I see a healer with a 3k GS then I know to have my finger on an invulnerability just in case. If I see other DPS with a low GS I privately laugh because I know I'm going to be carrying them with my uber DPS :) .
Remember while many of us are only doing heroics for the daily Frost Badges there are still many people who actually *gasp* need the gear. So if you wind up in Heroic UK with a tank wearing quest blues and greens...well that's why he's in Heroic UK, for the lootz.
Anonymoose Jan 18th 2010 7:40PM
This is what I do too. I check gear only to know how "I" should react on my priest/DK.
HEALER: What DPS should I keep an eye on in the beginning because of their gear (aggro ripping)? Should I pay more attention to the tank or can I zone out a bit because of their gear?
DPS: Should I be worried about ripping from the tank or can I unleash hell? Is the healer geared enough that I can risk getting away with DG'ing a few ranged mobs into the group to help the tank?
TANK: Can I zone out a bit or do I need to stay focused to prevent DPS from ripping aggro from me? Is the healer geared enough for hardcore pulling or should I tone it back and go at a slower pace?
Now, this isn't to say that gear equals all your answers. ..but it's a good tool to use at the very start of the run until you get more familiar with everyone else.
You can be the best player in the world.. but if you're sporting an average item level of 200.. you're not going to be pulling off me when I tank.
Oni Stardust Jan 18th 2010 6:58PM
Great article. I run into one of those elitist people in my very first heroic a few weeks ago. The healer was complaining about everyone in the group, but especially me. He tried to vote kick me, and at one point even refused rez me after a near wipe saying that I was just lazy for not running back even though he was standing right next to me (good thing a rez capable dpser also survived to help me out).
The worst part was I had better gear than he did and was doing a better job of pulling my weight. The rest of the group (who were all full T9 or better geared) actually said I was doing a good job considering I was mostly in gear from lv80 regulars.
By the end of the run that guy was the first name to ever go on my ignore list.
JoJa Jan 18th 2010 7:00PM
@Rossi
I love your columns, (I even have a budding 43-level soon-to-be-Fury warrior to prove it!) but considering the things you wrote just after the LFD tool debuted, this reads a lot like a mantra you repeat to yourself while slowly counting down from 10. =)
On topic, this is great advice as long as it doesn't lead to outright sloppy play. As a healer, I'm fine with helping pick up the slack for undergeared players. But if you play dumb in a PUG, I don't feel bad about letting you die. It's easier to keep the tank and the one good DPS up during the boss fight, even if it takes a couple minutes longer. Sometimes, death can be the best lesson a newbie (not noob) learns. After the boss is dead, a rez and a simple "that's why you don't stand in fire/in front of the boss/eat whirlwinds, etc." can go a long way.
I won't waste text bitching out someone who's not pulling their weight, but I won't get carpal tunnel saving their lives either.
Viper007Bond Jan 18th 2010 7:03PM
Haha, +1!
My alt is a healer and I make a specific effort to not heal those that keep standing in fire, etc. If my chain heal hits them, so be it, but I won't go out of my way to keep them up if it means risking the tank.
After dying 400 times, maybe they'll learn.
Now that's not to say I won't heal a big DPS person who happens to pull off a weak tank (I'm guilty of doing that on my Warlock), but if they're pulling mobs before the tank even gets there, then too bad.
Viper007Bond Jan 18th 2010 7:00PM
As a fairly hardcore raider, I'm very guilty of this. Thanks for the reminder.
I'm still not turning off my public announcing of usage of low ranked abilities though. Everyone, even inexperienced players, should be using max rank spells. :)
Schwiiing Jan 18th 2010 7:05PM
Yeah, that's what whispers are for. Why not help someone out rather than embarrassing them?
Is the public announcement *really* necessary?
Viper007Bond Jan 18th 2010 7:08PM
Until recently, you could not whisper people from other realms.
I may change it to PST now, but my line of thinking was that a little public humiliation would encourage them not to ignore me and instead update their bars.
N-train Jan 18th 2010 10:22PM
That happened to my preist the other day in a battleground, turns out that dual speccing has a glitch that often leads to spells not automatically updating rank when you purchase the new one. I just happened to use a spell on my bar as opposed to something on Healbot, and that came up.
Moral of the story, it may not always be the player's fault (I mean really when do you actually check the rank of your spells).
Hoggersbud Jan 18th 2010 10:54PM
Funny, offering that explanation for accidental downranking is one I provide all the time, it's even part of the default whisper IIRC.
But I never really think of downranking as an intentional case of people doing bad, but rather, I think of it as a case of a simple and easily resolved mistake.
The people who overreact to being told they are downranking are the problem more than anything else.
Schwiiing Jan 18th 2010 7:03PM
"You are not there to police everyone else's gear, spec and playstyle. You are not there to have to micromanage every aspect of the game."
Yep, great post mate. If only we could make it so everyone who signs up for a random dungeon has to read this, like signing the wow Terms before you play. Heroic pug randoms can be loads of fun, and most of the time they are... but it only takes one cockhead to ruin it for all.
Yay for 'vote to kick'
Bond Jan 18th 2010 7:08PM
Well said, and spot on!
Pyromelter Jan 18th 2010 7:09PM
Just wanted to chime in - last night in my HoL daily random heroic I did 9.9k dps... on Loken. Probably did
Pyromelter Jan 19th 2010 6:10AM
(insert fail comment system catchephrase)... I was saying I probably did 3k dps on the trash. And that not all great dps'ers are recount shouting bragadocious baddies. Some of us like to test our 2pc tier 10 mage set bonus on dungeon bosses, way more fun than target dummies. :D
flint Jan 18th 2010 7:09PM
I do try to help out any people I see that are doing things...weirdly. Mages with 71 points in frost doing 400 dps by spamming Ice Lance, spriests omitting VT from their rotation (not just trash, on bosses too), DKs in 4 piece t9 doing less than 1k dps....I've seen a bunch of stuff. I dont mind, as long as you realize that Im trying to help. I DO mind when I get "STFU NOOB LEARN TO PLAY". The other day I was doing UK on my warlock (level 71, it wasnt a heroic, but the same thing applies) and the DK tank couldnt hold aggro. I checked her spec and she hadnt picked up Frost Strike or anything lower than it, where all the good talents are. Instead, she got Corpse Explosion in Unholy. When I asked her, she flipped out and raged at me, saying that people need to stop bringing up her spec. I realize that people dont want to be seen as failures, but come on, Im trying to help.
eadipus Jan 18th 2010 7:12PM
Had a pair of highly geared guys join me (tank) and two dps in UP hc. Apparently LoS pulling is a waste of time if you're geared enough. Personally if its casters it means that I can actually keep aggro, everyone doesn't get chain feared (34k mana don't mean diddly if you're running away) and its quicker because all the mobs are together for AoE. Apparently the title Starcaller means you are a dick.
Pyromelter Jan 18th 2010 7:20PM
Starcaller titles (and achieves) are often sold by high end guilds - I believe the going rate is 15-20k gold or so. Sometimes higher. So take that FWIW.
Correlation Jan 18th 2010 7:12PM
Absolutely agree with what you say.
It's mind-blowing what a dose of Respect does to PuGs. And to raids alike.
Gimmlette Jan 18th 2010 7:17PM
^This.
If you were closer, I'd make you dinner, Mr. Rossi. Is Dragon's Breath Chili washed down with Kharanos Raspberry Malt and Delicious Chocolate Cake good for you?
The problem is the people you describe aren't likely to see themselves in your article. I guess we could hope.
Sleutel Jan 18th 2010 7:20PM
Now that we can whisper again, there's no reason not to use the magic words, "/w Failpugger Is there a reason you're doing XYZ? I thought ZYX was supposed to be better for your class/spec/etc. And so on and so forth."