Scattered Shots: Hunting heroics and PUGs

We all know how painful PUGs can be. The DPSer doing less damage than you could do naked; the retadins and mages that open up immediately and pull aggro on everything; the tanks that still degroup the instant you land in Oculus or can't hold aggro on anything and ignore the mob eating the healer's face off; and of course the foolish healers that don't prioritize healing your pet above all else.
We talk a lot about optimizing our hunters for raids, and we're going to continue to do so. However a lot of hunters don't have raid access and are taking advantage of the new Dungeon Finder to run heroics until their feet are bloody and their gun barrels melt. So today we're going to take some time to talk about the facets of doing good heroic DPS, and about being a good heroic group member in general.
So join me after the cut as we take a look at how your shot rotations change in heroics, examine mana conservation, and generally discuss how to be a good group member.
Understanding Your Job
Let's start by being very clear, and a bit preachy, about your job in a heroic: you need to help your tank maintain aggro, keep your pet under control, protect your healer, and do good, quality DPS without pulling aggro yourself.
We all like to do lots of damage and top the damage meters. We're a pure DPS class after all. We are death dealers and blowing things apart is what we do. But the goal of the heroic is to finish as quickly as possible without wiping. With decent gear the best ways to do the absolute highest damage involve pulling aggro constantly, pissing off the tanks, putting strain on the healer, risking wipes, and generally being the worst kind of PUG member. Don't be that person. It's not a raid and it's not difficult, but it's still a team effort.
Note that in all cases, if you pull aggro it is your fault. It is never the tank's fault, no matter how incompetent they are. It is our job as DPSers to monitor our threat and adjust accordingly.
Furthermore keep in mind that while many of us are grinding the heroics to get our two Emblems of Frost each day, there are people in blues and greens who are there for the gear and the Emblems of Triumph. Don't be angry with people who are poorly geared or just learning the fights. These heroics were designed for them after all, and they're doing exactly what they should be doing to get geared up.
The Heroic Shot Rotation
All of the hunter shot rotations you read about are designed specifically for raid boss fights -- and moreso the kind of fight where you sit in place for a long time and just shoot and shoot and shoot. Life is very different in heroics, especially these days where most of the group outgears the instances by massive amounts. Fifteen seconds is suddenly a long life expectancy for a mob, and it's not uncommon for them to drop much faster. I've had mobs drop dead just at the sight of my group approaching.
This means that the heroic hunter needs to be aware of what he or she is facing and adjust shot priorities on the fly accordingly. There isn't a single shot rotation that's going to be right -- the best priority system will change depending on not just the dungeon, but how well your group is doing. Here's some basic shot priority tips:
- Misdirection: you should MD to your tank on every pull that you can. With the change to the way MD cooldown works, that will usually mean every other pull. Use Volley with your MD to get threat from all the mobs to your tank. On pulls where MD is not available, go a bit slower with your DPS.
- Hunter's Mark: put it up on your first target of a trash pack while you're running in, and certainly on bosses. Generally though it's not going to be worth it to put Hunter's Mark on any other trash. You won't get the extra AP for long enough to make up for the loss of a global cooldown.
- Serpent Sting: I prefer to lead off with Serpent Sting on the first mob of a trash pack that I'm not AOEing mostly to give the tank a bit more time to establish aggro. But in general it's not worth it to Serpent Sting mobs, even with the tier 9 set bonus. They die within a few ticks, and you could have done more damage using that GCD for any other shot. That said on the beefy mobs it can be worthwhile, or if your PUGs DPS is very low.
- Volley: this is going to be your most used and most damaging shot in heroics. Use volley any time there are three or more mobs. One of the nice advantages of Volley is that since it does less damage per target, you're actually less likely to pull aggro from a good tank than if you single target shoot.
- Explosive Trap: you're better off using Volley. This is not a part of your standard rotation and is used only in special circumstances.
- Multi-Shot: don't forget to use Multi-Shot whenever there is more than one target up, unless you're already volleying. In most cases you'll want to Multi-Shot two targets and Volley three or more targets. Multi-Shotting three targets can also be just fine.
- Pet: honestly, I'm going to go ahead and risk the wrath of most of the world and suggest you just keep your pet on defensive for heroic runs. With the fast-paced environment it's easiest to just let your pet take care of itself. As long as you're shooting the right thing this shouldn't cause you any problems. Also be sure the new Cower is on your cast bar. If you see your pet taking lots of damage Cower can usually keep it alive without having to waste a GCD on Mend Pet.
Also, keep an eye on your healer. Both bad tanks and bad DPS can cause mobs to be on the loose (it is not always the tank's fault). Regardless, if you see a mob loose fire a Freezing Arrow at your healer's feet. I like to do this even if the loose mob isn't on the healer yet, just to be safe. Your healer will love you for it, even though she probably doesn't deserve it given how little she heals your pet.
Mana Management
With the pace of heroic runs these days, running out of mana can be a problem, and it's easy to end up spending far too much time in Aspect of the Viper. Keep an eye out for mobs with a mana bar and preemptively use Viper Sting on them. Don't wait until you're low on mana, but do this throughout the instance and it's possible you'll never have to dip into Aspect of the Viper. Also be aware that some mobs with mana bars are immune to your Viper Sting. Mechanicals are particularly annoying this way.
Hunter Spec Breakdown
Every hunter spec can perform admirably in heroics, regardless of gear level. Here are a couple of notes specific to each spec:
- Marksman: MM is very strong in heroics with the increased damage from Volley and Multi-Shot. If you are an armor penetration hunter build, keep in mind that your ArP is going to be less useful in heroics than in raids. In general you cannot expect to have ArP debuffs on your targets. Arcane Shot should be back in your rotation for heroic runs.
- Survival: Black Arrow targets should be chosen carefully. You want this on targets that are going to stay alive for a while to maximize the chance of getting Lock & Load. In fact, you probably want to apply Black Arrow to a target that you aren't DSPing when it comes to mob packs. Heroics also offer SV hunters a great opportunity to use their traps to force Lock & Load procs. Just remember that Explosive Shot, especially combined with Lock & Load, is a lot of burst damage. Make sure your tank has a strong threat lead on a target before you unload. If you pull aggro from your Lock & Load, it's your fault, not the tank's.
- Beast Mastery: don't forget to use your Bestial Wrath at every opportunity unless the mobs are about to be dead. Don't just save this for bosses. Also, with the great amount of AOE involed in heroics, you may well be better off bringing a Bear as your pet for the multi-target advantages of Swipe and Thunderstomp. Just spec your pet all in damage increasing talents rather than the typical defensive tenacity talents. Be aware that Thunderstomp causes a good amount of threat, but honestly if that's enough to pull mobs off the tank, you have tank issues and probably want them on your pet instead of you. That said, a Wolf is probably still your best pet choice.
Heroics are a horrible metric for your DPS. Your DPS will vary depending on what heroic you get, what classes you're with, and how well they perform. Generally the better the DPS of the group, the lower your individual DPS will be. Expect your DPS to vary wildly, even between runs of the same instance.
However, we are a pure DPS class and we're expected to hold up our end of the team. It is certainly possible to be doing too little DPS. In an attempt to set a baseline for the minimum DPS a hunter should ever do in a heroic I did two highly amusing tests*. First I ran UP heroic completely naked except for my gun and ammo. Then I went out and bought a set of green gear, level 76-80. I used no enchants, no gems, no scope, and no talents or glyphs. I ran UP heroic again. I think it's safe to say no hunter should be doing DPS as low as I was in either of those runs.
- Naked Frostheim UP Heroic: 1,100 DPS overall. I spend about half my time in viper and was really, really squishy.
- Green No Talent Frostheim UP Heroic: 1,000 DPS overall. Didn't go into viper nearly as much (hardly at all) and still did worse than naked. Talents are indeed more important than your gear.
*No PUGs were harmed while conducting these tests. Very understanding guildmates who are used to my antics kindly helped out.
You want to be a Hunter, eh? Well then you came to the right place. You start with science, then you add some Dwarven Stout, and round it off some elf bashing. The end result is massive dps. Scattered Shots is the WoW.com column dedicated to helping you learn everything it takes to be a Hunter. Each week Scattered Shots will cover topics to help you Fix Your DPS, Choosing the Right Spec, Gear Selection, Macros and Pet Selection, Pet Specs and Management.
Filed under: Hunter, Instances, (Hunter) Scattered Shots
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 4)
zack Jan 18th 2010 6:44PM
There was some glitch with the meters after 3.3 where ranged dps appeared to other people to be doing horrible dps. It had something to do with how the servers worked.
Eddy Jan 18th 2010 6:47PM
This person was on my server.
Rialyn Jan 19th 2010 11:13AM
Just out of curiousity....
Being a very casual player I may be missing something, but why would you be running with the "Argent Dawn Commision" in your second trinket slot?
Wouldn't something like the "Oracle Talisman of Ablution" considerably increase DPS?
Eddy Jan 19th 2010 11:22AM
Oh, I was working on Loremaster. That's certainly not my normal trinket.
Larnot Mar 27th 2010 8:58AM
There are some issues with your gear that some chain heroics for Triumphs could easily cure (i.e.- pvp back and trinket, leather boots). The new ICC instances could make your gear raid ready in no time.
As for your spec the only thing I see is I would take at least one point from Expose Weakness, Hunting Party or Resourcefulness (probably Expose Weakness) and drop it into Improved Aspect of the Hawk. Your haste is at 184 (a little low) so a point or two into ImAOTH would make a significant difference.
Good hunting!
McGruber Jan 18th 2010 5:50PM
I haven't done much testing with this but as survival I'm pretty sure I do more dps by dropping an explosive trap, disengaging, and firing off lnl'd explosive shots. If I have more than 2 mobs up after that I volley. Kill shot is indeed a great way to pad the meters (which I fully endorse).
Of course this strat was useless pre 3.3 but with the change to MD and the buff to ET it's very effective. I'd also add that it's helpful for mitigation because you're focusing down the caster(s) very quickly with lock n load.
Jeff Jan 18th 2010 5:56PM
Another thing that's very helpful for huntering in heroics is to have a keybound Aspect of the Viper/Aspect of the Dragonhawk toggle macro:
#showtooltip
/castsequence !Aspect of the Viper, !Aspect of the Dragonhawk
(The exclamation points prevent you from accidentally using it to remove an already-active aspect.)
I switch aspects between most pulls, which helps my mostly-232-and-below-geared self keep up on mana without having to stop and drink and only rarely having to sacrifice DPS by using Viper during actual combat.
It's also very handy to have a similar keybound toggle for Dragonhawk/Pack - used judiciously in H CoS and H HoR it can help the group out a bit, but that aside, if your mana's fine there are plenty of places in most heroics where you can use it to shave seconds off here and there between pulls (which, hey, adds up!). Just be sure to switch back before the tank reaches the next pack (or vice-versa).
Bonus tip: while most people consider it quite rude to pull mobs, even with Misdirection, if you're in an area where you know there are pats about that are going to wander into the group shortly (Halls of Lightning/Stone, I'm looking at you, here; also the Utgardes, and Old Kingdom...), it's sometimes a good idea to hold off on using MD until the pat starts to attack, at which point you can safely and helpfully direct them to where they need to go. (Having a macro that casts MD on your focus is also very helpful for this purpose.)
Draelan Jan 18th 2010 9:58PM
Yes. This is fine. If a pat looks like it's about to blunder into the group, feel free to keep an eye on it and MD it to the tank if it pulls. (Keyword: If. Sometimes they don't quite reach that aggro radius) It's only when people pull to "speed things up" that it gets particularly annoying.
Charlie Jan 26th 2010 12:46PM
I switch to viper b/t every single mob, which means that I almost never have mana issues, even in speed PuG runs. (And only occasionally do I forget to switch back.) Another trick I use to manage mana is to stay in AoV for the last trash mob before a boss. If I'm using volley, I'm still managing high dps numbers and at the same time making sure that I have enough mana in case the boss fight takes longer than expected.
Rugus Jan 18th 2010 6:10PM
Sometimes while I run heroics I see this comment (whispered or in party chat)
"I've never seen a hunter switching aspect so many times in few minutes"
That's true. I have macroed the aspect switch (AotV Aodh) to the key "E" so that I sitch to Viper/Hawk with a fast key tap and while moving around. What changed my hunter's life experience was using Viper ONLY while shooting Steady Shot. Whenever all the shots are on cooldown and I've got SShot only (and supposing I need mana ofc) I switch to Viper, cast 2x Steady and switch back to Hawk (and the normal rotation goes on until I have all the shots on CD and I can use SShot only, rinse repeat as needed).
This way I shot the best shot I have i nterms of mana/efficiency. Also, I could not shoot anything else (because I have a cooldown on every shot). Less mana consumed while DPSing, fast mana regeneration.
Doing this allows me to keep a full DPS on my enemy. The DPS loss is very marginal, sometimes almost not noticeable. I could not believe it myself, so I just started mastering the aspect-switch on the move and... well, I ended any mana problem.
10 and 25 man are not a problem anymore. 5man (heroics) require some viper -yes- but a fast switch between aspect coupled with Steady only... try it for yourself, you will be amazed.
## Note: credits to OutDPS.com too, who introduced it in a slightly different way.
Tirrimas Jan 18th 2010 9:08PM
This is really interesting, and a possibly a solution to my constant OOM problems in heroics.
(Why didn't I think of this...)
Rugus Jan 18th 2010 9:32PM
@ Tirrimas
Test it, you can see the benefits on a dummy too. It needs a little practice to fast-switch. Aspects are out of global cooldown so you basically hit the kye while doing your rotation, you waste no time at all.
Video Games Blog Jan 18th 2010 6:26PM
9 times out of 10, trying to save a squishy with a well placed freezing trap results in some other DPSer breaking the CC or the squishy himself doing it. Use distracting shot on the errant mob and kite the mob away (out of range of overzealous rogues, mages and warlocks with their crazy AOE's) and freeze the mob there. It sucks to lose the DPS, but it doesn't suck as much as the healer getting 1 shotted.
Q Jan 18th 2010 6:31PM
Now that explosive trap scales with your ap I find it a useful tool along with Volley for mding aggro to the tank. With H instant buffs my trap does 7k and up per target, and with raid buffs i've seen it over 9k per target. If you add the trap glyph that allows your trap to crit, its even higher. during a PoS run i had trap damage of over 750k. Of course the trap is only useful for large mobs.
Sicadastra Jan 18th 2010 7:03PM
Pet on defensive hasn't caused me any issues, I'd say it's just fine. I'll even stick him on aggressive in CoS during zombie only runs back and forth (not when there's actual mobs out of course) it's fun to just watch him run around and snap zombies in half without any effort.
Plzlemme Jan 19th 2010 12:06AM
The only thing I disagree with on your post is suggesting bm hunters that they might want to switch to a bear instead of sticking with a wolf. The only reason to go bm spec in the first place is for the awesome exotic pets!
Beruza Jan 19th 2010 7:09AM
There's nothing great about the exotic pets. Bears do more DPS. Cats do more DPS. Wolves do more (the most) DPS.
Believe it or not. A hunter buddy and myself have both tested this out A LOT and that is the conclusion we came to.
Beruza Jan 19th 2010 9:55AM
And exotic pets are definitely NOT the only reason (nor the best reason) to go BM. The extra four pet talents you get far exceed the ability to tame exotic beasts. Plus, the rest of the tree has a ton of great talents that don't necessarily pertain to exotic pets.
BM hunters (with or without exotic pets) can still top the DPS meters, despite what people say. Especially if you spec and gem correctly.
zymry Jan 19th 2010 12:08PM
@beruza
I'd take that bet in a heartbeat if we both had hunters with the same gear (before enchants and gems) on the same server. The discrepancy would be much higher of course if it were someone like kripparian, quadillious, or frostheim playing MM or survival against your bm.
Hopefully Blizz fixes BM in cataclysm. Right now however to say you'll beat other hunters, or mages and rogues, played well, in the same level of gear is incongruous with the data currently available.
Mike Jan 18th 2010 7:14PM
One thing that just came up in a PUG yesterday - PLEASE, PLEASE toggle your pet to Defensive or Passive before accepting the LFD popup window! I queued into heroic Halls of Stone yesterday and half the group were still loading in when the hunter's pet zoomed off and pulled the first group of mobs. We survived only because we were all in t9+ gear and the healer was, thankfully, one of the people already loaded fully. The hunter apologized profusely but needless to say it rankled everyone a little bit. (the rest of the run went fine, however.)