Patch 5.2 interview with Dave Kosak
Inside an old alt's vault
The latest patch 5.2 news
All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsDrama Mamas: We hate hate
by Robin Torres 
Jan 22nd 2010 at 2:00PM
The other night, one member of a random PUG The Spousal Unit was in announced exactly which bosses would be downed. He stated that any disagreement would cause something on his body to be put into something on your body -- only he used slightly more graphic words. The run was fine, because, though his method of communication was crude, it did convey a strategy that worked.
There are some, however, who are being crude and offensive in the same way that creeps in college libraries reveal themselves to solitary students. These poster children for GIFT (Note: The link for GIFT is not safe for work. But if you are not familiar with Penny Arcade's theory about the internet, you really need to go there.) aren't criminals in the legal sense of the word, but they do have victims and therefore I will call them perps. Who knows what motivates them. Maybe they are troubled teens who have terrible home lives and should be pitied. I don't know and honestly I don't care. I'm too busy spending my sympathy on Haiti to include these jerks in my monkeysphere. And besides, at some point you have to take responsibility for your actions, regardless of how horrible your environment is. This week, we talk about these GIFTed perps.
Dear Drama Mamas: Overall, I've been very fortunate in my Dungeon Finder experiences. But I just ran across my first troll and I probably could have handled it better. We were about two thirds of the way through Utgarde Keep, when the healer started making sexist jokes. I ignored it until he got to "Want to hear a joke? 90,000 women were raped last year" which crossed all sorts of lines for me. I initiated a vote to kick, but it didn't pass, so I dropped group. I probably should have tried telling him to shut up first, but I'm guessing that someone making rape jokes probably isn't likely to stop just because someone tells them to. At what point is offensive behavior grounds for a vote-kick. And what's the best way to deal with players like that? -That'sNotFunnyDrama Mama Robin: That'sNotFunny, I actually went through something similar in Scarlet Monastery on my priestess. I joined the run, in progress, and was told "hurry up and get here or I'll rape you." Only, instead of trying to votekick or dropping, I stuck with the group. No idea why I was so dumb that night, really. It's not like a healer needs to wait that long. As is typical with offensive jerks, he was a terrible player. He refused to use any mana as a paladin tank and pulled entire rooms. He couldn't hold aggro or take the damage. We wiped multiple times. I was blamed and votekicked out of there by him and his equally offensive buddies. I have felt violated ever since, but it is mostly my own fault for staying.
Here is how I think we both should have handled these perps:
- Write down the perp's name and server, being careful to include special characters and notice odd spellings.
- State in party chat that the perp's behavior is unacceptable and, if the perp doesn't apologize, call for a votekick. These bullies tend to have sidekicks and since kicks have to be unanimous, this will rarely work. But I think it's worth a try. (Edited to add room for discussion.)
- /ignore name-server -- This will not only ignore him but make it impossible for him to be in your future random PUGs.
- If the votekick did not work, drop out of the group.
- Use the in-game help function to report the perp.
When Blizzard eventually gets to your ticket, they will send you a lovely email thanking you for your time, promising to do something about it, but refusing to give you any real status due to privacy issues. We've seen evidence that perps get anything from a temporary reduction in chat privileges to permanent account bans.transmit or post any content or language which, in the sole and absolute discretion of Blizzard, is deemed to be offensive, including without limitation content or language that is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, hateful, sexually explicit, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable, nor may you use a misspelling or an alternative spelling to circumvent the content and language restrictions listed above.
It sure would be nice if this were a rare scenario, but unfortunately we are likely to meet another Horatio Hatemouth again in our PUGging adventures. Though it could be worse. At least these perps don't have thousands of followers who are actually swayed by their hatespeak. Drama Mama Lisa: Inappropriate language comes in several flavors. There's good old-fashioned rough language ("The @#%@ing piece of @#@! cast on me before I could engage!"). There's flavor-of-the-moment douchebaggery (in fact, the term "douchebaggery" comes to mind). And then there's the truly offensive, inappropriate vocabulary employed by the clueless ("Dude, everyone knows that saying you're going to 'rape' something in game is just a figure of speech!").
There's arguing for your "freedom" to let your proverbial hair down and use mature language when you play -- and there's respecting the fact that you're interacting with other people in a shared social space.
There's railing against the knee-jerk demand that we all march in perfect, politically correct formation -- and there's being an insensitive jerk.
There's indulging in a little loose-and-free humor -- and there's using language that causes others to feel uncomfortable, offended ... or worse.
Don't get caught with your pants down. Before you open your mouth, consider the differences in the comparisons above. Are you being funny and hip -- or are you just behaving like a low-rent, disrespectful, tactless boor? Or if you're talking about "raping" mobs and other players, perhaps you've completely crossed the line? If you're uncertain, zip your lip. Your groupmates will thank you for it.
Drama Buster of the Week
People tend to live up -- or down -- to your expectations. The best PUG leader I've had started the run with "We're all pro. Let's do this!" I really, really wanted to be pro and not let him down... and we were. Try saying something positive and motivating at the beginning of a run, even if you think there's a scrub or two in the group. You may find that they surprise you and you'll avoid the drama that being judgmental and condescending brings.
Remember, your mama wouldn't want to see your name on any drama. Play nice ... and when in doubt, ask the Drama Mamas at DramaMamas (at) WoW (dot) com.Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Drama Mamas
Reader Comments (Page 3 of 8)
(cutaia) Jan 22nd 2010 3:25PM
I definitely wish their "report" button had a few more options. Just "spam" is too generic and usually doesn't apply to 88.8% (repeating, of course) of the things I'd like to report.
Ben Jan 22nd 2010 2:33PM
FYI instead of having to figure out the special characters that make up the perp's name, just right click it in chat, even if he's already left or you are out of the group, and click "ignore". And instead of having to type it out later in your ticket, there are plenty of addons that will let you copy-paste from chat, like Pratt, I believe, will let you.
Richard Jan 22nd 2010 2:38PM
"And then there's the truly offensive, inappropriate vocabulary employed by the clueless...("Dude, everyone knows that saying you're going to 'rape' something in game is just a figure of speech!")."
Except the word rape has another meaning other than sexual. And raping something is entirely different than raping someONE.
rape
–noun
1. the unlawful compelling of a woman through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.
2. any act of sexual intercourse that is forced upon a person.
3. statutory rape.
4. an act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse; despoliation; violation: 'the rape of the countryside.'
5. the act of seizing and carrying off by force.
"Holy cow, the Horde just got raped in Wintergrasp!" is a completely legitimate usage of the word. It is only offensive and inappropriate to those that lack the skills to either use a dictionary or understand meaning.
Chris Anthony Jan 22nd 2010 2:53PM
Just because a word CAN mean something does not mean that it DOES mean that thing in context. The "but it CAN mean something else" argument is ancient and tired, and deserves a rest.
It is just as easy for me to say "oh, they mean that this boss is a bundle of sticks" ("fag"/"faggot"), or "hey, they're just saying that the new instance is happy" ("gay"). If I said that I would be lying. That's not what they mean. Likewise, you KNOW that's not what players mean when they talk about "raping" in-game. Most of them aren't even aware that there's a non-sexual definition. Your apologism is neither ethical nor helpful, and serves only to exacerbate the problem.
Nadia Jan 22nd 2010 2:54PM
So, you carry off the opposing faction in battlegrounds? How come I have never seen that? How come I have never seen the opposing faction "despoiled" or seized violently?
Last time I checked, in WoW opponents are killed. None of the definitions you listed are, in fact, accurate.
Stop making excuses for being offensive and just stop being offensive. Really, since you've shown that you can use a dictionary, find a more appropriate and less controversial word.
The Scarlet Mathematician Jan 22nd 2010 2:55PM
You are, of course, absolutely right, but let me add one ammendum.
The verb "to rape" is still vulgar, in most contexts. It would probably still be a good idea to avoid it in situation where you are trying to put forth the best impression.
Etiquette is all about subtext. Are you linguisticly permitted to say "We got raped in Wintergrasp?" Yes. In guild chat, among friends, it may even be socially permisible. But if you are shouting it at strangers in General, then chances are you're still being a fuckwad.
Ronin Jan 22nd 2010 3:02PM
Except that of those five definitions, you chose the only one is not directly related to the physical act of rape. And the reason it's included in the list of definitions? It's short-hand for "rape-and-pillage".
Are you actually trying to make the case that those who use "rape" even _know_ about the dictionary definitions, and have specifically chosen number 4? I find that highly doubtful.
Richard Jan 22nd 2010 3:10PM
Of course, the trolls have arisen.
"The Horde" is a thing. Anyone who thinks the statement "the Horde just got raped in Wintergrasp" has any sexual overtones really needs to go back to school.
When an army marches into a place, absolutely decimates the area, kills all the people and claims the area of their own, that is a raping of the place.
I agree with most of the people above me, though - 99% of the idiots playing this game have no clue that the word rape has uses that do not refer to sexual crimes.
But there are some of us that have a vocabulary above that of a teenager, and choose to exercise that vocabulary.
Decrying that the word rape in WoW can only have one meaning cheapens our language.
(cutaia) Jan 22nd 2010 3:13PM
"It is just as easy for me to say "oh, they mean that this boss is a bundle of sticks" ("fag"/"faggot"), or "hey, they're just saying that the new instance is happy" ("gay"). "
I'm sort of playing devil's advocate here, so allow me to preface this by mentioning that I'm not one of those folks who uses the word rape in these contexts (although I did once refer to the border patrol violating my vehicle in a seach as them "raping my car"). Moving along:
An interesting thing about this particular argument is that you list here, two words that now have completely different accepted meanings than they did in the past. This could almost be seen as a defense of the fluidity of language. If terms for bundles of sticks, cigarettes and happiness can slowly be turned into euphamisms for homosexuals, is it really much of a stretch for a word like rape to develop an additional meaning that entails the "domination" of another team in combat?
It's a tough question, to be sure, as there are sensitivities at stake here. I do, however, think it's a mistake to imply that all people who use that word are intending to be offensive, or that their claims that they are using it in a different manner than you assume are automatically lies.
Language develops in strange ways some times, so it's an interesting problem we have here.
(And obviously the joke presented to That'sNotFunny was just plain wrong.)
eric_barbaric Jan 22nd 2010 3:33PM
"When an army marches into a place, absolutely decimates the area, kills all the people and claims the area of their own, that is a raping of the place. "
Hey there Mr. Dictionary, to decimate means to reduce by one tenth. It does not mean to totally destroy. Learn to use a dictio...well re-learn to use a dictionary.
Richard Jan 22nd 2010 3:42PM
Hey Eric, I suggest you break out that dictionary:
"to reduce drastically especially in number b : to cause great destruction or harm to "
Just because the root of the word implies a number, does not mean its meaning is exclusive of that number.
(cutaia) Jan 22nd 2010 3:43PM
I had never heard this definition of decimate, so I did indeed look it up:
"1. to destroy a great number or proportion of: The population was decimated by a plague.
2. to select by lot and kill every tenth person of.
3. Obsolete. to take a tenth of or from. "
If anything, you've helped Richard's case by pointing out that you and he both see a word as having different, but both valid meanings. In fact, the version you read is closer to being obsolete than the one he intended.
Language...it's constantly evolving. I think that's the main point Richard is trying to make even if he sounds a bit one-sided on it.
Chris Anthony Jan 22nd 2010 3:55PM
@Richard, I don't deny that "rape" has more than one meaning. The problem is that a) you're claiming that people are using the meaning that is not currently common, and b) you don't understand the now-secondary meaning.
"Rape" derives from a Latin word meaning "to seize", "to carry away", and "to steal" (among that word's descendants is "raptor", meaning a bird of prey or a particular sort of dinosaur). "Rape"'s modern meanings all derive from that Latin word's meaning, which is to say that they all have to do with seizing or taking away. In its non-sexual meaning, "rape" indicates that a thing has been taken away or that all valuable things have been taken away from a place. (In Roman history, we speak of the Rape of the Sabine Women, which is meant not to indicate that they were victims of forced intercourse (they later were, but that honestly is beside the point), but that the Romans seized the women and took them away from their homes.)
Your example, "When an army marches into a place, absolutely decimates the area, kills all the people and claims the area of their own, that is a raping of the place.", is not quite accurate. Regardless of the (correct) assessment that that isn't what "decimate" means, it is not the destruction and killing that constitutes rape; it is the claiming as their own. An army could just as easily rape an area by marching in and taking everything of value, but killing nobody and destroying nothing. (It's interesting to note that in your original definition, "despoliation" means "the removal of spoils".)
In any event, it is improper to say that "the Horde just got raped in Wintergrasp" unless either the Horde themselves were seized or anything of value was taken from them. (Before you ask: since the Alliance can't actually take anything of value from the Horde but Wintergrasp itself, it isn't correct to use the second definition there.) It would, perhaps, be proper to say "the Alliance just raped Wintergrasp and drove out the Horde".
The fact of the matter is, though, that the vast majority of the player base of World of Warcraft don't know that the secondary meaning exists, and it's severely disingenuous to pretend that we should tolerate the word merely because it *could* be used in a different fashion.
Instead I will turn the table: you've demonstrated that you have a larger vocabulary than the average WOW player. Surely you can find a different word to express what you mean, and obviate the need for discussion at all.
Chris Anthony Jan 22nd 2010 4:00PM
I'll correct:
* I've just looked up "decimate" as was suggested elsewhere, and sure enough, the tide has turned to considering "destroy" or "reduce dramatically in number" as correct. I retract the comment thereto.
* I should have said "the study of Roman history". Neither I nor, I suspect, the majority of other commenters here are actually *in* Roman history.
(cutaia) Jan 22nd 2010 4:09PM
Chris,
I'm enjoying this discourse quite a bit. One part of your recent post stands out for me:
"In any event, it is improper to say that "the Horde just got raped in Wintergrasp" unless either the Horde themselves were seized or anything of value was taken from them."
Well, if taken so literally, it would be improper to say that "the Horde just got owned in Wintergrasp," unless the Horde themselves were seized. Correct?
At that point, though, I think we're getting a bit far into semantics here in a discussion about slang. When a player in Warcraft says they "owned" you, we don't assume they are making an allusion to slavery. Just like "owned" has simply earned a meaning of it's own (like how "cool" and "hot" often have nothing to do with temperature), I think the argument stands that the word "rape" may be undergoing a similar transformation.
So, the real ethical question is whether that the evolving change in meaning is appropriate...not so much whether the people who are using it are purposely being offensive.
Chris Anthony Jan 22nd 2010 4:29PM
@Cutaia, you make an interesting point. I am neither a strict prescriptivist nor a strict descriptivist - I tend to err on the side that would be more interesting. (In general I am in favor of the evolution of words, but not their dumbing-down; "from whence" is my pet peeve, since "whence" is a word that specifically means "from where". Likewise its cousins "hence" ("from here"), "thence" ("from there"), "whither" ("to where"), "hither" ("to here"), and "thither" ("to there"). "From from where" is just silly.)
I agree that we're seeing a sort of semantic drift in "rape", but there is a problem that we don't see with "own": ownership is not a moral and legal violation as rape is. (The problem is compounded because, at least in the US, ownership of a person IS a moral and legal violation, but somehow "owned" doesn't carry the same potential for offense as "enslaved".) Because rape is a continuing problem (if, perhaps, not an epidemic), there is resistance to the idea of semantic shift; it softens the seriousness of the violation that the primary meaning of the word indicates.
(Incidentally, I'd be curious to know the origin of the word "owned" as applied to gaming and competition. It almost certainly has to do with enslavement, but I can't for the life of me figure out how the connection would have been made.)
(cutaia) Jan 22nd 2010 4:48PM
"(Incidentally, I'd be curious to know the origin of the word "owned" as applied to gaming and competition. It almost certainly has to do with enslavement, but I can't for the life of me figure out how the connection would have been made.)"
Without knowing for sure, I'd have to guess that both terms have similar connections. Both the actual acts of raping or owning a person entail an over-powering and/or degradation of said person. These probably both found their way into the gaming lexicon because in an especially one-sided victory, the winning team feels they have throughougly embarrased the other team, which brings to mind similar overtones.
Much in the same way that real rapists generally have a psychological desire to inflict their perceived superiority on victims (not so much an actual sexual desire), these words have found similar usage on the internet. This, in fact, creates some sociological questions in addition to those regarding the etymology of the term.
I think it's a really interesting topic when you dig into it. All I know is that neither side of the debate seems to be so cut-and-dry. :)
ZMES_Matt Jan 22nd 2010 5:05PM
@Chris Anthony
Your arguement is an attack against an arguement that isn't his, which is a logical fallacy. You're inappropriatly using his example, and misleading people away from what he meant. You're switching out the different possible definitions of derogatory words and showing that they only mean something offensive in context. As you said, if someone says "This boss is a fag", then you would be correct if you assume they don't mean he's a bundle of sticks, that doesn't make sense so that's obviously not the definition they were applying.
However, if you switch out the term rape with the definition as you did so it reads "The Horde was carried out of Wintersgrasp by force!" it still makes sense and therefore is a proper usage.
poissondemer Jan 22nd 2010 9:33PM
@Richard
However, the context in this Drama Mama's is NOT about raping someTHING. It's about raping someONE. LOTS of someone's. And making those incidents seem unimportant.
That's the issue.
Sam Jan 22nd 2010 2:39PM
I'd like suggest a 6th step and that would be adding them to http://wowjackass.com. It is not in-game, but it can help others avoid the player as well.