How not to aggro your tank with AoE

Part of the problem here is that certain classes/specs have no aggro dump or reduction ability and as a result their big DPS moves generate a lot of threat. Arms warriors, most DPS death knights (at least the blood and unholy specs I've used) and retribution paladins have limited aggro reduction at best (pallies at least have Hand of Salvation but that's a band aid at best) and while tanking threat (especially AoE tanking threat) requires ramp up time, it's very easy to hit the Divine Storm, Death and Decay, Pestilence, Whirlwind or Bladestorm buttons. (Enhancement shamans with Spirit Weapons seem to be okay, I rarely pull aggro even when I go nuts with Fire Nova.)
I won't pretend I'm not guilty of this myself when I go DPS. In general this seems to be an issue with the plate classes, as they're designed to be able to tank and thus have not traditionally been designed to shed aggro so much as to generate it. It also doesn't help that since they're in melee range it takes less to pull aggro. So, as a DPS'er, how can we be friendlier to the tank with our big AoE abilities? Here's a few quick and dirty suggestions.
- Wait for the tank to stop moving. This isn't always easy to do, but for big AoE pulls the tank often has to gather up mobs that are not close together and get them all close enough for his AoE threat move to work. Running up to a mob and hitting your big AoE while the tank is heading over to another mob not only wastes the ability's AoE damage, it almost certainly gets you aggro.
- Wait for the tank to use an AoE threat ability. If the druid hasn't Swiped, the DK hasn't hit Blood Boil or put down D&D, there's been no Consecraton from the paladin or the warrior hasn't used Thunder Clap, Shockwave or Cleave, it's not safe to use Bladestorm or a similar ability.
- Make sure you're in the same area as the tank's AoE threat. A good example is the trash pulls before Scourgelord Tyrannus in Pit of Saron. If the tank has four mobs in close proximity to him and one off in the distance hurling spells at him, don't Divine Storm on the one off in the distance casting spells. If there are two casters and five melee and the tank has not really bothered to try and hold the melee yet because he's Death Grip pulling the other caster to him, don't hit Bladestorm yet. Hold off on AoE until you see the tank has his AoE hitting the mobs you'll hit.
Filed under: Paladin, Shaman, Warrior, Analysis / Opinion, Death Knight






Reader Comments (Page 4 of 6)
Aloix Jan 22nd 2010 10:24PM
@ (cutatia) - excellent post. Especially the listed 'unsettling trends'. Not doing those is a good start, imo.
@ DeathPaladin - too simplistic, imo. What about DPS who has recount installed (and prefers the 'Damage Done' to the 'DPS' meter, refuses to link recount in random PuGs, will not uninstall it because it's extremely valuable in raid settings as an assessment tool (Deaths, Dispells, Healing, etc), it's valuable as a personal assessment tool, etc etc. Yes one could simply use World of Logs for all of that, but for on the fly/ingame information, for people who are interested in 'numbers/info/now!', it simply can't be beat. I don't think that I am somehow immature for my choice in using it as a tool for such.
DeathPaladin Jan 22nd 2010 10:47PM
I'm sorry I couldn't include that, Aloix, but insects metamorphosize only a certain number of times in their life.
I mean, there are also DPS who have it installed because they are Raid Leader or Raid Assist, because they are mentoring another DPS and need to keep an eye on their numbers, or simply because they are statistics nerds. However, they also do not fit into my analogy, which relies on snappy one-liners and comparing DPS to butterflies.
And vocenoctum, I consider your example part of the Pupal stage, if only because while they don't install Recount, they are still obsessed with it.
Voltron Jan 22nd 2010 5:32PM
at times it seems dps warriors have better aoe threat than prot warriors...
vocenoctum Jan 22nd 2010 8:15PM
I accidentally stayed in Arms spec for the first pull of a dungeon, and let me tell ya, Bladestorm is the perfect threat opener!
ZMES_Matt Jan 22nd 2010 5:32PM
It's worthy to note that the 3 bolded points should probably be made in all caps and in a 72 size font and pasted to the top of every WoW related site ever made.
Just saying. :P
Vickitt Jan 22nd 2010 5:42PM
My strategy on my FFB mage with groups (3+) is simple. Living bomb, tab, living bomb, tab, living bomb, tab, etc. By the time I've finish dotting the group (3+ GCDs), the tank generally has tons of threat. Each living bomb is then staggered and does aoe, which while it causes high threat, it is also *dispersed* high threat and is normally lower than tank's threat on each mob. As long as my threat is below tank's, I'll then do a round of blizzard and fireblast/scorch any stragglers.
This way tank has plenty of time to grab threat, yet I haven't neutered my own DPS. Did 35% of the total damage on a HVH run this way, and managed 8K on the trash groups on the way to Tyrannus.
I've also had lousy tanks who thought they had mobs which then said "Die little gnome!" Luckily, I picked up the habit of blinking into the tank a long time ago.
elboricua1974 Jan 22nd 2010 5:42PM
I honestly have very few problems with bladestorming warriors on my Prot Pally. Even if they charge ahead I just Righteous Defense them and generally that plus my rotation keeps the warrior alive. If the warrior is pulling packs I have not touched yet I will HoP the warrior as he charges and tell him to stop, and if he doesn't he can inspect the floor.
On my poorly geared arms warrior I rarely use bladestorm when grouped unless I know the tank. I would rather tab rend, and watch for overpower, and execute procs and not have a repair bill.
Jigsaw-Complex Jan 22nd 2010 6:08PM
As a tank, i can tell you two problems i have with dpsers.
1: TARGET OF TARGET! If i'm not hitting it and you wail on it, why are you suprised when you pull it off of me?
2: Charts. Charts ruined DPSers IMO. All they care about is being the best DPSer which can be very bad if something goes wrong with threat. Being good at your class if you're dps doesn't always mean that you need to be pulling as much threat as the tank.
Eveleaf Jan 23rd 2010 3:42AM
I agree, and when I dps, I always use tank's target to get my target all lined up before the pull. BUT often times you tanks are switching your targets mid-fight to get aggro established on everyone. Next thing I know, BOOM, my really-bursty-destro-lock has pulled aggro on a mob you *were* targeting to begin with, but are no longer. If you WANT me to AOE instead of burn your original target down, please say so. Otherwise I'm going to be taking a dirt nap. Again.
Ianmis Jan 22nd 2010 6:14PM
Was thinking about making a macro that I could post in party chat at the begining of pug runs.
"You pull it, you tank it. :)"
Good or bad idea?
We'll take your calls now. Hello, you're on the air.
roflmao.
Neirin Jan 22nd 2010 6:27PM
I haven't made a macro for it, but when dps seem intent on pulling off me (I don't think it's even about meters, they just want to prove that they can pull off the tank) I let them know that they are welcome to tank it if they want it that badly.
Daemonsadi Jan 22nd 2010 6:28PM
definately agree with this one, although I very rarely give the DPS warning first. lol
I always end up running with a guild healer and 1 or 2 guild DPS, all of us in vent. General rule of thumb is if the PUG DPS can't bother with "Target of Target" and pull agro (single target) or don't give me time to get a D&D and Blood Boil off (AOE) then they can tank what they pull.
After they die, while the healer rezes them, they get an explanation of what happened. Don't often get a repeat performance.. lol
xenothaulus Jan 24th 2010 11:37AM
This needs to be stickied. Right on the WoW launcher. And you should be Required to read it and then pass a goddamn quiz before you are allowed to push Play.
Kuro Jan 22nd 2010 6:46PM
OK. I'm primary ret dps, but I've both tank and healed. In fact, I don't even DPS heroics much anymore -- get much faster queues going heals. I've healed DPS
But we got all of this tank grumbling about going
Kuro Jan 22nd 2010 6:57PM
WTB: EDIT BUTTON.
OK. I'm primary ret dps, but I've both tank and healed. In fact, I don't even DPS heroics much anymore -- get much faster queues going heals. I've healed plate DPS tanking through easier random heroics.
We got all of this tank grumbling about dps needing to reign things in... but what about a some suggestions for helping tanks build threat faster and keep it?
Rotation tightening, gear substitutions, trinket changes, using a dps sword and "threat" libram/sigil/offhand rather than the tank version, spec changes, etc..
In random heroics, I've pulled off a tank with a single judgment attack on a single target mob even after doing the 5 count thing. It's gotten to the point where, when I do dps, leave some of my healing gear on to stop pulling off of lesser geared tanks.
Lightwalker May 3rd 2010 3:17PM
I know it's not that well known, but Consecrate is no longer the end-all be-all of Paladin Tanking Threat. Yes, it provides threat on any number of mobs, but it's slow and steady threat, that helps in the long haul but has almost zero up-front threat. Paladin AoE threat these days comes primarily from Hammer of the Righteous. In fact, in your standard 9-6-9 rotation, Consecrate is the LAST ability used before the rotation "resets". Therefore it would be more correct to say, "If you haven't heard the distinctive 'bong' from the Paladin's Hammer of the Righteous, don't AoE yet."
Sleutel Jan 22nd 2010 7:19PM
"or the warrior hasn't used Thunder Clap, Shockwave or Cleave"
Cleave shouldn't be in that list for any groups of more than two mobs (and if the tank has problem with holding just two mobs, you're probably not using any AOE anywhere in the instance at any point), unless the tank is glyphed for Cleave (doubtful, unless they're in an Anub add-tank setup), in which case you shouldn't count on it for groups of more than three.
jslim419 Jan 23rd 2010 9:58AM
"Cleave shouldn't be in that list for any groups of more than two mobs"
what? cleave is a warriors aoe tanking bread and butter. next to thunder clap and shockwave.
Sleutel Jan 23rd 2010 12:03PM
@jslim419:
Cleave is absolutely essential when tanking groups of mobs. What it is NOT, is an indication that the Warrior has aggro ON THE WHOLE PACK. The point of the sentence, in context, was that you shouldn't use and AOE attack on the pack until you see the tank use an AOE attack. TC or SW counts, in this context, but since it only hits TWO of the mobs the tank is trying to control, Cleave DOESN'T.
DarkSpade Jan 22nd 2010 7:20PM
On my mage i make sure to get the tank's target down to at least 50% before I start AoE nuking. By that point, any decent tank has plenty of threat. Before I started out gearing heroics, I'd ask DPS to do the same when tanking on my pally.
Sure it adds 2 seconds to every pull, but it still beats 5 minutes recovering from a wipe.