Arcane Brilliance: Why I hate DPS meters

The comments section of last week's column on mage mistakes was an absolute treasure trove. It was full of wisdom, good advice, relevant in-game experiences, and the occasional trolling warlock (always welcome... we love it when the fireball-fodder comes to us... speeds the whole process up). But one comment stood out to me, so much so that I felt compelled to write an entire column about its topic. It's far too long to simply reprint here, and so I highly encourage going to the comment itself and reading it. There's actually another by the same commenter later on that is just as awesome. In fact, I will reprint one of the paragraphs from that second comment, because it pretty much encapsulates what I want to discuss this week.
Sarabande wrote:
Please don't remark on low DPS or complaining that DPS is barely above the tank's (esp. if tank is doing pretty high dmg) or constantly spam Recount in group, if everything is dying in a timely manner. This encourages the atmosphere of competition and pressures DPS into concentrating only on the numbers. If there is some kind of timer (such as HoR, VH, etc) which the DPS is not able to meet, that's a whole different thing. In fact if you happen to notice some DPS being considerate by holding back on purpose (even though most likely they want to be blowing stuff up, shooting stuff, stabbing things to death) and it's really helping, you might say something positive. That might encourage that behavior further and let the other know that that's something they might want to do as well.
This week's topic: DPS meters, and why I wish they'd just go away.
Now, before you tune out completely and start sharpening the pitchforks, let me clarify. I understand and appreciate the positive uses for damage meters. I have Recount installed on all my characters and use it liberally. Here are the things damage meters are good for:
- Monitoring your own DPS.
- Using the meter to help you when tweaking specs, gear setups, or testing spell rotations.
- In raids.
- Linking in party chat during a random PUG, without being asked to do so.
- Determining who's a good DPS and who isn't.
- Justifying a vote-kick.
Seriously, that's pretty much how I feel about the topic. In my opinion, society (and by extension, WoW) is made up of two kinds of people: those who are jerkwads and those who aren't. The people who spam damage meters after every pull to point out that A.) they are awesome and B.) you are not -- those are jerkwads. I can't think of a single good reason for this behavior. It's counterproductive, it's mean, and it's stupid.
The era of the random PUG is upon us, and it has heralded in a new style of instance running. As Sarabande points out, the tank sets the pace more than ever in these random dungeons, and though you will occasionally encounter the patient or uncertain tank, who prefers to take the instance at a slower, more normalized pace, most of the time your tank will be sprinting from pull to pull, daring the DPS and healer to keep up, rushing to complete the instance in as little time as possible. The tank assumes the DPS will kill things, and that the healer will be able to keep everybody up, and heaven help anybody who lags behind. In the rush, groups die with absurd rapidity, and there is no time between pulls to drink, look around, inhale, or even flip off the warlock. This leads me to the first reason I hate DPS meters:
They're worthless on trash pulls.
Beyond worthless, actually. The typical trash pull in a random PUG, with a decent group, lasts such a short amount of time that a mage typically can't even finish a full spell rotation before the mobs are dead. My arcane mage has resorted to using an abbreviated rotation for all non-boss encounters. He waits a second for the tank to pull everything, then spams Arcane Blast until Missile Barrage procs, at which point he fires out an Arcane Missiles, no matter how many stacks of Arcane Blast he's got out. Then, he follows it with a quick Arcane Barrage, because if the mob isn't dead yet, that's the only thing he's got time left to fire out. There are times, especially if the rest of the group is trigger happy, or if I'm lagging behind the group because of an Evocation or because I lagged a little while looting something, or any number of other reasons, that I don't even finish the first cast of Arcane Blast before a mob dies.
How is that in any way an accurate representation of the damage output a player is capable of? The answer? It isn't. Which brings me to my second reason for hating damage meters:
They're largely inaccurate in random PUGs.
Let's lay aside the fact that most DPS meters are still of questionable veracity in cross-server instances (the numbers are still pretty wonky, in my experience). Even if your damage meter is 100% accurate, accounting for everybody in the group without error, you're still talking about a rush-job random PUG. Chances are that most of your group outgears the instance. The tank is rushing. The rogue is spamming Fan of Knives on every pull. The arms warrior can't stop using Bladestorm as an opener. The ret pally only appears to have one button on his action bar, and that button is Divine Storm. The tank is in full tier 9/10 gear and does more DPS than anybody else is capable of. Mobs die swift, horrible deaths, to the point that other mobs in the instance see what's happening and just leave.
What you end up with is an environment where you can't judge anybody's worth by a meter. The entire operation is barely-constrained chaos. There is no semblance of a kill order, of target marking, of crowd control, of anything resembling even rudimentary organization. You end up throwing out spells and burning mana you ordinarily wouldn't, simply to look better on Recount. The numbers on the meter only reflect a player's ability to throw numbers up onto a meter.
Then somebody links recount after the first pull and we come to my third reason for hating damage meters:
They breed an unnecessary sense of intra-group competition.
So let's look at the reasons a person might feel obligated to link the damage meter in party chat:
- They were asked to do so by someone who doesn't have Recount installed, but would like to know how they are doing. In this case, I usually just whisper the numbers to that specific individual.
- They were topping the chart, and wanted everyone to know it.
- They want to point out someone's perceived sub-par performance to the group.
- They are the tank and want to shame the DPS by notifying them that the tank is outperforming them.
- They suffer from muscle spasms, and accidentally clicked the wrong button.
The first time somebody links Recount in chat, the group dynamic instantly changes. Suddenly it's on. The game condenses down to a single gnawing imperative: I must lead that meter. Whoever is last on the list instantly feels terrible. They may not have anywhere near the gear they need to outperform the other two DPS members of the party, but they feel bad about it just the same, because if you linked, you clearly want them to know how badly they're doing. The person topping the group feels good about themselves, but might also begin to resent the underperforming members of the group, feeling that they aren't pulling their weight. The group atmosphere goes, in one fell swoop, from cooperative to toxic.
What was the point of linking it? The answer, of course, is my fourth reason for hating damage meters:
Unless the group is wiping, the numbers are largely pointless.
Before you link your meter in chat, ask yourself the following question: are the mobs dying?
If the answer is yes, then why do you care? If things are going poorly, then maybe you need more DPS, and the undergeared or incompetent DPS in your group are holding you back and need to be voted out. If things are going well, though, what would possess you to point out what you perceive to be weakness in your teammates? Doing so has zero upside. What do you hope to gain? Do you think that by pointing out a below-average member of the group, that member will suddenly become better, improve their performance, and top the DPS meters? Are you secretly trying to inspire them? No, you're trying to demean them. Don't argue. That's what you're doing, and you know it.
Do you point out their shortcomings to the group in an attempt to foster support for a vote-kick? If so... what do you expect to gain from the eventual kick and replacement? Again, we've already established that the mobs are dying, right? Do you want those mobs to die... more? Is the time you'll spend waiting for a replacement and then waiting for that replacement to catch up with the group really worth the extra second or two you'll shave off the pulls from then on?
If the mobs are dying, if things are going well, then having somebody on the team who's not up to your standards isn't hurting you at all. In fact, for all you know, the subpar DPS they're putting out may not actually be a measure of their incompetence. It may, in fact, be a byproduct of their utility. Speaking of which:
Damage meters don't reflect anything that doesn't actually do damage.
I was in a group the other day. The healer died during a particularly difficult boss fight. The feral druid was on the ball, though, and very quickly came out of cat-form and took up the slack, allowing us just enough time to down the boss. Then the warlock (have I mentioned that I dislike warlocks?) had the gall to post the recount numbers in chat, and add a comment at the end that the druid did less than half of the damage that he and I had done. He initiated a vote-kick, and before anybody could say anything, it passed, and the druid was gone. I was flabbergasted. I pointed out, angrily, that the druid's numbers had been low because he'd spent the second half of the fight keeping us alive instead of doing damage. And then I left the group.
We become conditioned to look at the DPS numbers as some magical, infallible yardstick for evaluating a DPS character's worth to the group. And yet a DPS meter is only that: a cold, numerical measure of raw damage output. It is nothing more, and nothing less. It doesn't reflect the time we spend decursing. It doesn't reflect time spent on crowd control. It doesn't reflect time spent running out of the pool of green poison so that the healer doesn't have to worry about us when he should be worrying about the tank. It doesn't reflect time spent throttling back our threat generation, or waiting for the tank to grab aggro. It only reflects damage. I can't emphasize that enough. I really can't.
Do we really want to create an environment in which people are scared to contribute to the group in ways other than flat damage? Would you rather the hunter throttled back his DPS a bit so that he isn't constantly pulling mobs off the tank? As a mage, would you rather I spent some time removing curses, taking a bit of the weight off the healer? Or would you prefer that I continue to be so worried about my position on the damage meter that I concentrate entirely upon DPS?
Now, about 2,000 words in, I have come to a realization. I don't actually hate DPS meters. I've focused largely upon their failings in the environment of the new random dungeon finder. In a traditional raiding environment, though, they're must-have tools. You have an organized group, taking on challenging content, and it's vital to know if somebody can't pull their weight in an extended combat encounter. It's important to know if you have enough DPS to swap one out for an additional healer or off-tank, or if your DPS is lacking and you need to replace members, or ask somebody to change specs. No, I guess I don't hate damage meters.
I hate the people who misuse them.
So the next time you glance over and realize that LolpallyXxX is only throwing down 1k DPS in heroic Nexus, and you're suddenly struck by the urge to link his meager numbers to the rest of the group, stop. Take a breath. Look around. Are the mobs dying? Is the run going smoothly? Are you in heroic freaking Nexus? If you're nodding your head to those questions, you need to reconsider your motivation.
And finally, I realize that this is a mage column, and that the majority of what I wrote above isn't exactly a mage-only concept. But I play a mage, and I run random heroics all the time on him, and I use a DPS meter. I'm sure a great many of you mages out there do the same thing. I am concerned by the douchebag who keeps linking Recount. His constant presence in my groups disturbs me. Sometimes, he is a mage. I write all of this in the solemn hope that the mage community can begin to be a part of the solution to this, instead of contributing to it. We're DPS. We remove curses. When asked, we provide rock-solid crowd control. Other classes perform other duties within the group. Let's all do our jobs, and let others do theirs. If the mobs are dying, who cares what the stupid meter says? The answer, of course, is nobody. Except the jerkwads. The jerkwads care.
Filed under: Mage, Analysis / Opinion, (Mage) Arcane Brilliance
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Reader Comments (Page 3 of 15)
Ed Jan 23rd 2010 8:33PM
Pulling their own weight is one thing, being expected to keep up with players who completely out gear the instance is something very different.
I was in a group the other day, me and another dps were doing about 4-5k dps, the tank was doing 3k and the 3rd dps was pulling about 2.5k.
About half way through the tank stopped to berate the 3rd dps, telling him to pick up his game or leave. At that point i'm happy to say everyone called the tank an idiot and left the group.
Some people seems to forget that we used to do these heroics in pre heroic gear (OMG!!).As far as i'm concerned, as long as a player is doing more than 1k dps, it's all good.
*Heroic HoR may need a little more than that, but my point stands, if your winning, then your winning.
Noah Jan 23rd 2010 8:34PM
A "jerk" means that you are either making others feel bad or making your group perform poorly, or both. Since you are not actually DOING either, you are not being a jerk.
As a sidenote, though, if you get yourself worked up about somebody else's performance (even if you don't do anything), you are actually letting the bad player make the PUG worse for you, since you are getting stressed out about it. So in that case, I would just calmly take a breath, close your eyes, and smash a can of soda with all of your angry might.
Argojax Jan 23rd 2010 8:54PM
Unless you are watching everything that's going on you don't know whether they are pulling their own weight. That's the biggest thing about Recount that people don't realize. For instance, I'm an instinctive decurser. A curse comes up I decurse it... that wastes both a bit of my reaction time and a GCD but hey most of the times the healers thank me for it. Also, what about the person who perhaps would like to carry his own weight, but the tank is in such a rush that he keeps moving and moving so that all your GTAoE spells get wasted. There are a lot of factors at play in a dungeon and in raids. DPS meters do NOT take all those into account.
Should people not be on auto-follow, or all in greens? Certainly. Should you be making a determination of how much weight is being pulled based on Recount? Most certainly NOT!
rsawyer69 Jan 23rd 2010 11:09PM
In reality they are just heroic dungeons. Remember when they used to be hard and you had to try? GASP and when you wiped?
In reality I know that i can pull enough dps for the whole group if the other two dps are doing below 1000. WHY? because you only need that little to actually run any heroic made before ToC.
Give the people that are either A) New and trying to gear their first 80, or B) gearing another 80 and hate the fact that they can only lash out 1500dps. Vote kicking people for low dps is a stupid idea. I vote kick assholes that like to berate, insult, or put other people down. not people that may not know how to play the game as well as someone else might. Maybe some helpful tips may help more than posting your muffled damage meter. Because we all know they are 100 percent accurate....
OH @Docp in a Heroic rolling out 1500dps is pulling your weight... Remember pre 3.2 heroic dungeons means gear with ilevel lower than 200 mostly.
Sehvekah Jan 23rd 2010 11:10PM
Maybe I'm just weird, but I *like* topping the meters by (sometimes well) more than 1k dps with everyone else doing 1.5k-2k. Yes, it's an ego thing, but not like your knee-jerk reaction would indicate.
See, when I'm in a group where *everyone*(including the tank and "healer") is doing 2.5k-5k+, I get my emblems, it's quick, sometimes I get an achievement, but I never feel like I really *did* anything. Sure, nobody died, but even with emblems or the odd bit of loot from the IC 5-mans, I walk away wondering what the point was.
When I'm blowing up the meters with a group of more-or-less fresh 80's though, it really feels like I'm *doing* something. I know I'm helping the tank hold aggro via glyphed TotT+FoK combo, I'm keeping the healer in mana by making things die faster before they cause too many problems, I'm helping the other DPS's by making their run that extra bit faster, everyone getting their emblems and sometimes upgrades from drops, there's the odd achievement, and damn it, the slower run makes it feel more like *something actually happened*, beyond my getting 2 EoF for T10 and a few EoT's closer to kitting my 'lock out in heirlooms(I know, I know, I *will* roll a mage eventually, I just wanna get the 'lock off my plate before I enjoy my strudel, so to speak).
And that's without mentioning the fact that these groups often have actual *conversations*, and sometimes the awe of those new to the game, experiencing these "tired old dungeons" for the first time. Hell, it even gives me time to slow down a bit, and actually *look* at the places I've been running though. So many times I've run Old Kingdom without paying attention to anything more than the loot pinatas scattered throughout, and that was really stupid on my part. A lot of these places are really awesome, and deserve to be savored, rather than rushed through.
So to all the newbs, thank you. You're making my playtime that much more fun, so I'll do my part to help you get the loot you need in return.
To those who think recount/DPS means everything, Go Eat Shit.
Hoggersbud Jan 24th 2010 12:06AM
I'm sorry you were voted down, but no, you're not a jerk, even if you say it to others. Some people don't pull their weight. It's not that they aren't doing as well as others, it's that they're not even coming close to doing their best.
Folks with bad specs, hunters who do things like melee or run around in viper all the time, guys who downrank and won't fix it after you tell them about it.
Yeah, it happens. You do low DPS in bad gear? Fine. You do that same DPS when your gear is much much higher? I know you're being lazy.
And that makes you the jerk.
Gothia Jan 24th 2010 4:44AM
Yes, you are a flaming jerk for getting upset about other peoples performance. If you are so great why are you doing heroics to begin with? These instances are tuned to player that are trying to get i200 gear and when people put out enough dps to finish the instance they are doing their jobs. The fact that you are helping people to reach their goals should be enough to satisfy the majority of people.
The person behind the keyboard could be someones little eight year old brother and just because he is wereing T9/10 gear doesn't mean that you have a right to be abusive when his white damage numbers don't meet your expectations.
Docp Jan 24th 2010 5:31AM
Well I would like to say that I'm not exactly blowing a casket over this, I only used the 'vexes' because it's such a nice word and rarely gets used. The more correct term is mildly annoyed.
I understand that sometimes people do other things that helps the party, one of the nice things about the recount addon is that it actually has many different window's to help you deduce why someone might be underperforming. It can show you healing, dispells, interrupts, death, etc and it can give you a breakdown of their attacks so you can spot if they're doing something horribly wrong (melee hunters anyone?).
@Gothia
"The person behind the keyboard could be someones little eight year old brother and just because he is wereing T9/10 gear doesn't mean that you have a right to be abusive when his white damage numbers don't meet your expectations."
I never said I was abusive, in fact I specifically mentioned that I generally keep this to myself. I understand a myriad of people play the game with different goals and expectations which is why I don't post recount in chat, I don't berate people and I usually stick up for them if other people call their DPS out. Scotch said it better than I did, that what I really want from people is effort, if they seem like they're earnestly trying their best then I don't mind but it's the passive people who annoy me.
I also don't have unrealistic expectations of what DPS is needed for heroics, I'm not talking about people doing 2000DPS because I know that's good, I'm talking about the people who pull less than 800 DPS.
Magefest Jan 24th 2010 7:59AM
@ Sehvekah
Yes! I feel the exact same way!
Like all mages, in an overgeared group I often struggle to finish casting frostbolt (yes, I sometimes feel like I am the only pve frost mage in wow) before the trash mob I had targeted is dead.
I genuinely prefer to run with low geared toons, as it makes the runs - which I have done soooooo many times - a lot more entertaining. Too many people have lost all patience with those who are not "teh l33tness" and geared up the wazoo. I had a healer quit on us once in Oculus because we wiped during the final boss fight. And the boss was down to 20%. Freaking wanker. We replaced him easily and then pwned the boss on our second attempt to collect our bonus loot and gems.
Where was I again..? Oh yes, you make an excellent point about feeling useful again when the other party members are not well geared. Occasionally I even sheep something to remind myself what it looks like.
SamLowry Jan 24th 2010 10:30AM
Actually, the term is "blowing a gasket", but I like the imagery you created.
Hoggersbud Jan 24th 2010 6:35PM
>These instances are tuned to player that are trying to get i200 gear and when people put out enough dps to finish the instance they are doing their jobs.<
Of course, since Blizzard put in Triumph badges to replace Conquest/Valor/Heroism, well, now that's not why many people run them.
So that's the answer to why you seem people there.
Leevo Feb 2nd 2010 12:48PM
Not a jerk since you're not making a big deal out of it...posting irrelevant meters...kicking folks...etc.
To me this article is about jerks who turn the PUG system into an avenue to 'bully' people:
1. They love to 'kick' people just because they can.
2. They attempt to use damage meters as valid 'grounds' for kicking them.
3. They assume there is only 'style' or 'method' to defeat these instances...that everyone should 'spec for DPS' or their toon is useless, and that sheer DPS is all that matters.
OK...so three members of the crew have to click that little sword that says 'dps'...but there are tons of ways members can contribute besides 'damage'. I.E....knowing 'what and when to attack'....avoiding 'being damaged themselves', buffs and debuffs...shields and back-up heals, crowd control...kites and turns...etc...
More than once as a healer I've carried groups all the way to the last boss blowing every mana gaining trick and cooldown I have without any break in combat trying to keep the sloppy dps crew alive (no combat break for for mana regen or global cool downs of any type)...they pull the last boss without so much as a ready check...then when all the dps is taking 10 times more damage than they 'should' be and wipe...they 'vote' to kick the healer.
More than once I've been 'kicked' by groups when someone (often even a weak tank) goes down in less time than it takes to cast a single flash heal (and that is including a devine spirit on them)...and told "Sorry, you're not ready to heal this." Before I can point out the fact the instance IS in my achievement list...AND that I'm wearing more than one piece of gear that came from there...well...not even time to defend yourself...poof voted off!
People like that are jerks, and they even seem to wipe groups and kick innocents on purpose. I think their mission is to derail WoW as much as possible...maybe they work for another game/company......or just get some kind of rush out being a jerk-bully.
Nope....this doesn't sound like your style of frustration.
Happy Gaming
IvanZephyr Jan 23rd 2010 8:17PM
I am glad somebody here at this site isn't afraid to call some people what they are on this game: Douche Bag tools.
People like this remind of the Hybrid Car Drivers in the South Park episode who fart into a glass and then smell their own flatulence.
Outside of perhaps fails at raiding ICC content nowadays, damage meters are fairly useless outside of testing your own damage.
My favorite is those geared ret pallies who post meters after the 5-6 mob pulls in ICC before Lord Marrowgar and act like they're the shit.
Get over yourself.
If you need to flex your ePeen THAT much in a GAME, then you have much bigger problems then a dps who is lacking in your group.
Kabuki Joe Jan 24th 2010 9:12AM
I had a Warrior DPS two days ago post a Recount after an uneventful and successful CoS and scoff at my dps because I was third. He said I sucked because I didn't even break 2k with a 5k GS, I was so fail. I was the tank. Where in the hell does that fall in your douche bag tool-o-meter sir, because that is beyond Hybrids and on to Parisians on mopeds.
Hammer Jan 25th 2010 12:32PM
Ret pallies are bragging? Psh, no way! My prot pally main tank is the real king of Marrowgar trash. 7.5k dps as prot while solotanking Marrow10trash, 2nd on meters - oh yeah, I'm da bomb and you dps are all phail!
If tanking and there are 3 dps all at 1k, it's no big deal, I can put out enough damage myself to get us through pre-ToC5 heroics, it just takes a bit longer. I'll usually ask in chat if I can make a a suggestion and IF they're ok with it, I tell them to check out the EJ forums for spec/rotation advice. I WON'T tell them that they suck and should re-roll go play somewhere else where no one cares that they are losers. If someone does start smack talking, they go in my ignore list (which now has more cross-realmers on it than people from my home server...)
Jaq Jan 25th 2010 2:18PM
Agree wholeheartedly re: ICC and Marrowgar trash. I am, generally, the third best DPS in my guild overall-not that I particularly care, it's just where I am-and every time we run ICC, a ret pally I know will post the meters and boast that he's out doing me. Then of course we get to Marrowgar and I double his numbers when it matters. Strangely I never hear from him then.
I just finished Heroic OK where I had to ease up to keep from pulling aggro from the tank, and the other DPS were ranged and wiping out the mobs in record time. Did I do my usual heroic level DPS? No. Did I do my job? Yes. Using Recount in heroics is silly.
Kantha Jan 23rd 2010 8:20PM
I concur
Angrycelt Jan 23rd 2010 8:22PM
Very good article - even though I'm kind of a lurking druid here, I know my purpose isn't always to hit as hard as I can as fast as i can. I decurse, depoison, emergency heal, CC, and my spec is for raiding, single boss targets only. My rabid pet peeve is when dps meters get published after things like Onyxia where there's a ton of AoE trash and the rogue is just spamming Fan of Knives (or insert your favorite AoE spell/abaility here). Or trash pulls before the big boss. Yeah, that's great you helped clear the little stuff, but the big test is still to come. And I know (as a boomkin) that my worth is in Faerie Fire, spell crit bonuses raidwide, and a myriad of things, only topped off by my impressive but not chart-topping dps.
Just sayin', my clothie homies, that I'm with you on this one. Great for self-checking, but needs to go away when it just becomes e-peen flexing.
Hoggersbud Jan 24th 2010 12:24AM
Indeed, Onyxia is one of those cases where I'll say...your overall DPS doesn't matter, you can ramp it up so high it's not even worth looking at without a grain of salt.
Damarlen Jan 26th 2010 1:31PM
Lol, DPS on Ony means not much at all. I am a prot pally, and I off-tanked Ony 25. So my WHOLE job was to stand in the middle of the cave, and get beat of by Whelps. That's it, that's all. I had nothing to do on the trash clears coming in, my dps on Ony herself was negligible....but I stood there and got wailed on while healers healed me and dps burned Ony. Then someone posted recoun. I was in about fifth place with a little over 5k damage. Didn't mean I had good gear, didn't mean I did a good job, didn't mean I was fantastic, and it SURE didn't come from hurting Ony. It just meant I stood there and got beat on while a Ret Paladin kept me in his Retribution Aura. DPS meters don't mean much, and DEFINATELY not on Onyxia.