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The latest patch 5.4 newsPimp My Profile: Derongar, protection warrior
by Matthew Rossi 
Jan 27th 2010 at 8:00PM
I WANT TO RAID GOOD. Please, teach me to raid gooder than I already raid.While I believe that your gear is pretty solid (at first I was confused by the lower stamina but then I realized you'd logged out in arms spec but tanking gear) there are a few places that can be adjusted.
-Derongar
Gems
First off, there's really no reason to gem for defense, dodge or parry, not even for set bonuses. If you need a yellow gem for a set bonus, grab hit/stam. If you need a red gem, get expertise/stam. Looking at the stats, and keeping in mind that you'll have full Anticipation when in tanking spec, there's absolutely no reason to be gemming for dodge.
But while your hit is solid at 253 hit rating, your expertise is a low 14, only granting 3.5% dodge/parry reduction. That's not enough: you'd probably want at least to shoot for the 26 that pushes dodges off of the melee attack table at the minimum. Everywhere I see a dodge/stam gem here I'd prefer to see expertise/stam until he was at least at 26.
Talents
Your talent choices are solid: you go for Improved Demoralizing Shout, very useful against physical damage bosses, instead of Impale/Deep Wounds for bleed threat. It gives up some AOE threat but it's definitely not that unusual. Your five points in Deflection make the parry gemming even less relevant.
Glyphs
Your hit rating is high enough that you can probably afford to drop the Glyph of Taunt as you are most likely not getting all that many resisted taunts purely on hit rating. (Technically Taunt is a spell, so the hit you'd need would be higher than the melee hit chance, but once you're close to 300 hit rating the glyph really isn't that necessary.)
And with a block value as low as this gear has (the only places you have Block Value are on your shield and hat) the Glyph of Blocking simply isn't all that compelling. 10% more Block Value after a Shield Slam is what, another 140 block value? The Glyph of Vigilance will easily provide more threat than that. Likewise, the Glyph of Cleaving will allow your cleaves to hit an additional target for more tanking AOE threat (which this spec doesn't produce as much of due to the lack of Deep Wounds/Impale) and the Glyph of Shield Wall will basically allow you to have a cooldown available every minute, which is very useful when tanking hard modes and high damage bosses. I would definitely consider replacing those two glyphs, maybe even carry around a stack of Vigilance, Cleaving and Shield Wall to slot in depending on the fight.
To sum up...
In general, gear itself is solid, gems could use some tweaking away from stats you already will have in abundance towards threat stats you're low on (especially expertise, which at 14 really needs to come up), talent choices are solid for the Imp Demo debuff (but if you have an arms or fury warrior in the raid, get THEM to spec for the Imp Demo/Commanding Presence buffs and get yourself the crit from Cruelty and the threat from Impale/Deep Wounds) and I'd consider adjusting my glyphs around. By themselves all minor changes but I think you'd see a nice cumulative effect.
Check out more strategies, tips and leveling guides for Warriors in Matthew Rossi's weekly class column: The Care and Feeding of Warriors.Filed under: Warrior, Analysis / Opinion, Pimp My Profile
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 3)
Josin Jan 28th 2010 9:00AM
Plenty of reasons to gem for expertise and hit over avoidance stats. If you aren't at the 8% hit and 6% (I think that's what 26 converts to) expertise, then you're gimping your threat generation.
Be all that you can be, and all that. Once you hit the key threat generation points listed above, stack Stamina. If a socket bonus is less than +9 Stamina, ignore it and gem stamina. If the socket bonus isn't +Stamina, ignore it and gem stamina.
No stat gives better returns for a tank than Stamina right now. Avoidance is subject to the RNG (Random Number Generator). A bigger health pool is not.
dan Jan 29th 2010 1:06AM
It can. However in taunt swap fights it's also a good idea to vigilance your tanking partner for the automatic refresh on your taunt. If you miss then it'll be right back up.
Vogie Jan 27th 2010 9:59PM
Out of Curiosity, is there any one (1) place I can find all of the cap numbers? in both rating numbers and percentage points
Expertise/hit/dodge/defense/parry/resistance/haste/crit for each class?
I'm known as the the go-to guy in my guild for knowledge of random crap for all classes. But when I start getting hit with questions like Hit Rating for DW DKs, expertise caps for melee classes, haste caps for resto druids, et cetera, I just would love an answer other than "Um, go look at EJ?"
Hoggersbud Jan 27th 2010 10:42PM
wowwiki has a lot of the information, though it's not all on one page, you could copy and paste it to a document of your own.
Redielin Jan 27th 2010 11:06PM
Vogie, I don't know if "cap" is the right term for all those stats, but the EJ articles on the specs in question will usually fill you in on any pertinent information.
Gryndon Jan 27th 2010 11:31PM
I question the advice about gemming for expertise too. While the expertise will certainly have a positive effect on threat, I would prefer the added survivability from parry, dodge, or (best of all) stamina.
Matthew Rossi Jan 28th 2010 1:23AM
There's absolutely never any reason to gem for parry. It's absolutely the worst possible use of your gemming. Dodge is better, but when you have 14 expertise, you really can't ignore the stat. The idea that threat's never an issue aside, it's simply bad to be getting parried or dodged. As it stands now, with 14 exp he absolutely could be both. Even with 26 exp he'll still get parries, but that's better than getting both.
Charneldeath Jan 28th 2010 9:06AM
You never ever ever ever ever EVER gem for threat (hit/crit/expertise/etc). Any progression tank thats worth his salt knows this. Also, gem Def/Stam in yellow sockets. Def gives dodge/parry/block/chance to be missed. 540 def is NOT a cap, its a minimum.
Josin Jan 28th 2010 9:31AM
Any progression tank worth his salt knows that misses and dodges lower his threat generation, and assuming his DPS isn't a total failure, he's going to need those hits. Once those are "capped" however, I certainly would agree that if you need a yellow gem, def/stam is good, as it gives overall avoidance, plus Stam, which is the key to a good tank these days.
Jamus Jan 28th 2010 12:12AM
Mmmmmm
I hate to say it, but this episode of "Pimp my Profile" seems to really go against the spirit of "pimping out" a profile. Usually you'd expect completely broken cases when something is being sent to the "pimping crew"... but this, by and large, is a properly geared and spec'd character and all you can try to do is tune-up, not do-over.
I mean, there's druids out there who insist that feral gear helps moonkin dps, priests who equipped a tanking mace just because it's epic quality, healers in ungemmed Brutal Gladiator PvP gear, and many many other people I've seen who would benefit more from this column than... this guy.
Is it required that the owner of the profile submit the request or do you guys take recommendations, by the way?
kia Jan 28th 2010 1:58AM
You have to nominate yourself.
You can't nominate the terribad you noticed standing around at the bank.
Kolargol00 Jan 28th 2010 2:51AM
Go get the 245 crafted bracers (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47571) and level that blacksmithing to be able to socket them for more stamina.
Morningbell Jan 28th 2010 3:03AM
Derongar here. Ta for the advice!
I actually quit WoW a couple of days ago >.< Sorry...
Maybe I should reconsider... I wouldn't want something so awesome as having my character on Wow.com to go to waste.
Dere Jan 28th 2010 9:16AM
lawl....he left the game. I hope you didn't stop playing due to the eliteist jerks that said you were under geared (clearly that's not the case) or a no good tank or something like that.
One thing we all need to keep in mind is that we all do the best we can and it is just all fun and games. Enjoy the pimp'n.
Failbane Jan 28th 2010 4:27AM
I'm having trouble understanding why Impale/Deep Wounds + 5/5 Cruelty is such a good choice for Prot Warriors. Our Warrior MT doesn't have them (he doesn't have Imp'd Revenge either (and I also don't understand why this beats many other talents either), but that's a different matter), and I've never seen him, or any healer/DPS in any of his raids complain about threat. Not to mention that he actually overaggro'd (by mistake
Failbane Jan 28th 2010 4:45AM
Sorry for the double post.
Ignore the Cruelty part.
Stilhelm Jan 28th 2010 9:06AM
I also don't have deep wounds or cruelty and do not have any problems with threat except against our prot pally. However, our top dps only pushes 7k max in our 10-mans, and as a hunter he has feign death and misdirect (although he doesn't have to use them often). In heroics I have issues with threat sometimes, but that's because the bosses don't hit hard enough, and no rage == no threat, regardless of spec.
However, tanks for 25-mans *do* need to worry more about threat because they will have dps pushing 10k+. And if you want to claim that "dps should just watch their threat", well that's fine (but not very much fun for the dps) until you reach that gear-check boss where you *need* that high dps just to kill the boss before the enrage timer, or dps-based hard mode kills like Hodir. And if you're constantly telling your dps to watch their threat because you don't produce enough, the first time they get a tank they *cannot* pass in threat you will more than likely find your tanking spot permanently filled by someone else.
Ivelos Jan 28th 2010 9:33AM
I am MT in an RP guild with a raiding habit. We are progressing well through ICC 10, and we have some very good DPS pulling 6K on boss fights. I have never had a problem with threat, but very few of my talents are pro-threat. They're mostly survivability. And I gem for the balanced traditional way of getting all the gem-set bonuses. But I never ever ever ever never ever gem for hit or expertise. Why? Better question is why would I? My advice to warrior tanks is this: If you have any problem generating threat, FIX IT, and if you don't, go all out survivability. Now, forgive me if I'm wrong; I am by no means an expert or pro tank. I just casually raid. But this is my experience. Also, can someone please explain why parry and dodge are so bad to gem for? I'd rather not be Mr Squishy Tank because I'm getting hit every single time the boss swings.
soonerwolf Jan 28th 2010 10:18AM
Tanks that gear purely stamina annoy me. I've seen too many tanks throw Solid Majestic Zircon (30 stam) in every single slot, then wonder what happened when they get parry-gibbed due to lack of expertise.
Most of my gear is gemmed with a mix of SMJ's, 10hit/15stam, and 10exp/15stam. I focus mainly on expertise and supplement it with Rhinolicious Wyrmsteak to get to 26 expertise if I'm not there. Expertise is both a threat (mob doesn't dodge so you hit more) and mitigation (you don't get parry hasted hits from the boss) stat. It should not be ignored.
Gem/Gear/Specs are good starting points, but the mark of a good tank is Situational Awareness.
I play a tank as my main ( Gnimtrov on Bronzebeard US), and have grouped with tanks on my alts that left me banging my head on the keyboard because of a lack of situational awareness. It's always best to plan one pull ahead for trash, knowing where the next trash group is and how to manipulate them into the current fight when it gets to near over. A good tank will also know how to tank the boss, what abilities he will use, and how to counter them.
It's one thing to go in and press 1-2-3-4 and get loot (pretty much what current heroics are right now), but it's another to pick up that third raid trash pull that unexpectedly added, hit shield wall and challenging shout, get it under control with a few AOE moves and tab-sunder/slam/revenge/hs, then have the group go "WOW" at the end while looting the pile of enemy bodies.
edeesis Jan 28th 2010 11:01AM
All right, so in my opinion there needs to be a couple things done for this guy.
1) Gemming -- While Rossi is right, his advice is situational, if you find that DPS are pulling threat on you on Bosses, perhaps its time you choose to gem for hit/exp. As far as hit is concerned, you only need 1 green hit gem to get to 263 hit. For expertise, you might wanna try finding some pieces that have expertise on them like the T10 Legs, the T9 Shoulders, or the Frost Chest (95 EoF). If you're gonna gem for hit and expertise, only put a green gem in a yellow socket, and a purple gem in a red socket. Vivid is the Green one for Hit/Stam and Guardians is the purple one. For blue Sockets, you should always gem Stamina, which provides the most benefit.
If you don't have problems with threat, I would choose to gem for Stamina in all sockets unless the Socket bonus is 9 or more stamina. If your socket bonus is greater or equal to 9 stamina, gem Agility or Dodge and Stam for Red, and Defense and Stam for Yellow. Agility/Stam: Shifting, Dodge/Stam: Regal, Def/Stam: Enduring. The meta you are using (and the one that most tanks use) has a requirement of 1 Red Gem and 2 blue gems. This will be easily met if you gem your helm with a Regal or Shifting Dreadstone.
In addition, get that blacksmithing up! Once you get to 450 (I think...) you get 2 free sockets! That's 60 more stamina!
2) Enchants -- Obviously, with 564 defense, you can afford to lose the Shoulder Enchant from Sons of Hodir. I would pass that enchant instead to the PvP one for 30 Stamina/15 Resil. As one of the commenters above me said, Resilience is useless beyond defense cap, but the 30 stam is not subject to DR like the Dodge Rating and Defense Rating avoidance is.
Never go for the Savage Gladiator Helm enchant however, the Argent Crusade one has 7 more stamina and defense instead of resilience, which makes it better by far.
I would suggest enchanting your cloak with Mighty Armor (+225 Armor), which is the best choice for enchanting cloaks if you're past the defense cap. Also, consider going for +18 stamina on your shield instead of the plating. I understand the allure of refusing to use a BC enchant, but really, it's still quite good.
3) Gear -- I understand not being able to get that great of gear without raiding, but you should spend your triumph on getting Crusader Orbs to upgrade your Bracers. Saronite Swordbreakers (http://www2.wowhead.com/?item=47570) are by far superior to the Valor Bracers you currently have. As for your next choice of Frost upgrade, I would choose to replace that rusty old Shieldwarder Girdle ;)
4) Talents -- I would suggest either removing 3 points from Shield Spec or 3 points from Focused Rage to move it into Armored to the Teeth, the loss of 3% block or 3 rage on your abilites is vastly made up for with your increased threat from the extra AP. Other than that your talents look fine for a good threat spec. It's possible that Fury warriors will spec for Imp Demo if you ask nicely.
5) Glyphs -- Your current glyphs are Glyph of Taunt, Glyph of Blocking, and Glyph of Last Stand. If you have Glyph of Taunt in for Gormok/Saurfang/Festergut instead of Glyph of Shield Wall and you just logged off with it in for the night, I understand. Right now, my current choices are Blocking/Devastate/Shield Wall for main tanking ICC 25, although I may consider Last Stand/Shield Wall/Devastate. For threat/trash, go with any combination of Cleave/Blocking/Shockwave/Devastate/Vigilance, whichever fits your quota. My personal favorite is Cleave/Shockwave/Devastate.
6) Other than that, you have great gear, keep up the good work.