Have emblems ruined heroics? (Hint: no)

- A player who mainly runs heroics will quickly amass many Emblems of Triumph, thereby becoming easily overgeared for all but the most challenging heroics (i.e. Halls of Reflection). This makes them much less fun.
- Raid-oriented players who are running heroics just for the two Emblems of Frost at the end are not very fun to run with.
In Ardol's plan, right now, only the Frozen Halls instances (Forge of Souls, Pit of Saron, and Halls of Reflection) would drop Emblems of Triumph (I think), and every other instance would continue to drop Conquest. This would make it much slower to gear up in Triumph, as well as not forcing people who don't like five-mans to run five-mans to get their Emblems of Frost.
A key advantage to this plan is that it keeps like-geared instance runners together, at least to some extent. People who far outgear the earlier instances will have no real reason to run them. and will be concentrated in the higher instances, hopefully with others of their gear level (although WoW players being what they are, there are going to be some undergeared players in the more demanding instances). It also gives five-man players a clear progression path, similar to if not quite as difficult/rewarding as the raid progression path.
I really like the idea. Furthermore, the Frozen Halls instances feel somewhat like Blizzard is testing the idea out, especially with Halls of Reflection. Obviously they haven't made any changes with the Emblems, but the part about more difficult, more rewarding instances accompanying each raid tier is there.
However, I don't agree with the suggestion that the current system has destroyed heroics. Yes, I do have my share of no-talking, all-business, death-squad heroics that remind me more of Wolfenstein 3D on "don't hurt me" difficulty than of how heroics used to be around BC or the beginning of Wrath, when they struck me as five-man raids.
But I'm also running many more heroics than I ever have before, on all different characters and roles, and having a blast doing so. Because of the easy gear, there are far fewer completely failed groups. Say what you want about games being too easy, I still think it's much more fun than games being too hard.
If I have a spare hour, I can sit down, log in, and queue up, and within moments be running a rewarding instance. That kind of instant gratification is something that WoW has really been missing, and it definitely enhances the game for me. It may come at the cost of overall difficulty, but I think that's a price well worth paying.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 6)
Brouck Feb 2nd 2010 8:06PM
On my lock my queue is always the same, log in, queue random, wait 15 minutes while i herb, get my frost badges, queue for Heroic Frozen Halls instances, curse win I still don't get the one freaking piece I need outta Halls of Reflection, collect badges eventually buy better gear.
AfraidofArthas Feb 3rd 2010 2:33AM
This
Masarah Feb 2nd 2010 8:08PM
Emblems are the only way for players who are new to 80 can get geared enough to do current level raiding.
By having the highest level emblems as an incentive, you keep well geared people running them as well so that Heroics dont just end up being ignored by all but those who are new.
Eternauta Feb 2nd 2010 10:36PM
^ This.
The system Blizzard implemented is almost perfect in my opinion. Because it rewards high end raiding players for going to heroics to help newbies gear up, instead of letting them "left behind" for not playing WotLK since release.
I know how it feels like, because I got to lvl 70 a month or two before WotLK arrived. I couldn't get past Karazhan. Nobody did the instances I needed to gear up.
If this system would have been there those days, I could have seen Hyjal / Black Temple at least.
Primalscream Feb 4th 2010 12:08AM
The problem i see with emblems, is that most players are picking up their t9, but aren't picking up the skill needed to play [Insert Class Here].
SamLowry Feb 3rd 2010 12:29AM
And yet good luck on getting into raids based on badge gear and heroic drops. What we need now is a Raid Finder, with no weekly lockouts, since raid pugs will very likely be very flaky and fall apart in an instant if a tank gets his armor dented.
Weekly locks made sense when only guilds attempted raids, but nowadays when you have a bunch of random strangers trying it out who will likely never see each other again, you have absolutely no chances to keep trying again and again over the course of the week to succeed--if you can't do it in a couple hours then it ain't gonna happen, so try again tomorrow with a whole new set of strangers.
Gothia Feb 3rd 2010 4:20AM
I totally agree with Masarah. I "never" ran heroics before the new Lfd system was implemented and now I will run a heroic at least once a day if not more. So in contrast to the bloggers post it is my opinion that the new system not only saved heroic, but also helps out our less experienced / geared player by grouping them with better geared players. This not only helps the newer players by building confidence and access to better gear, but is an enabler for all player to be competitive in raids.
Segregation is not a good policy and I believe that the blogger is probably an elitist that wants to give people their own little label. Thankfully wow is transitioning to a different game style that gives everyone an opportunity to experience all aspects of the game.
Docp Feb 3rd 2010 7:18AM
I like the idea of having the emblems so new players can gear up fast but I don't agree with having the top tier emblems drop so raiders are pretty much forced to do it everyday. Whilst it's nice to have better geared and more knowledgeable players running heroics with the new players in theory, in practice it leads to raiders doing something they don't want to and therefore are often miserable and irritable when running the heroics.
I think it was Rossi who made a post along the lines of "don't bring your raid attitude in heroics" and I think Blizzard should follow "don't bring your raid rewards into your heroics"
This isn't about elitism or not wanting people in raid gear (I love that my alts can get into great gear fast and I love that new players can to), it's about being forced to do something I don't like in order to do well in the aspect I do like.
Evlyxx Feb 3rd 2010 10:54AM
Yeah emblems help alts and newbies stay at the current top end raid venue. Nobody wants to run Naxx anymore unless its for the weekly raid quest and Ulduar was (and continues to be) missed by the pugs as its too long and too hard (/sigh) for them. Only ToC remains and then you need achieve and GS of over 5000 (/sigh again) to stand a chance)
Barinthos Feb 3rd 2010 12:44PM
Honestly the only thing that's ruining Heroic random runs is dbag elitists. They're only heroics people, it's not like it's Heroic ICC25. You don't need 5K DPS or 35K HP.
As for the emblems? No, they've made heroics more accessible even to the fresh dinged 80. It's a great incentive for people, myself included, to start playing their less geared alts or even roll a new one.
Brainded Feb 4th 2010 12:43PM
I agree with Barinthos completely. Making the content accessible makes the game far more enjoyable to the vast majority of players who would not see it otherwise. We know it's possible to at least GET there in the current system.
The only point I agree with the original blogger on is getting Frost out of the Heroics. Then maybe the dbag elitists won't act all put out if they get in a group that will take more than 12 minutes to run a Heroic, since they won't HAVE to be there in the first place. As far as tiering the Heroics, if you think it's bad now wait until a raider gets placed in a random dungeon that will only yield Conquest. See how fast they drop group. The runs will be worse than HoR now, with more time spent waiting for someone to actually STAY IN the group than time spent running the instance.
I would really like to see a way to upgrade Triumph gear to the 10-H and 25-H level by running Heroics - maybe being able to buy the trophies somehow for Triumph badges.
martamius Feb 2nd 2010 8:09PM
>>In Ardol's plan, right now, only the Frozen Halls instances (Forge of Souls, Pit of Saron, and Halls of Reflection) would drop Emblems of Triumph (I think), and every other instance would continue to drop Conquest.
That would mean in order to get tier 9, I'd be running only 3 instances over and over again! THAT would suck. Horribly. Gearing up would become extremely boring and monotonous.
Jimson Feb 2nd 2010 8:16PM
Are you being serious? If you are, remember that most people only had 2 raids to gather triumph badges (10/25 reg). Right now you can farm your brains out and pick up 1-2 pieces of T9 a day. In 3.2 days, it took a couple weeks to get a single piece.
SamLowry Feb 3rd 2010 12:16AM
And good luck finding a group for HoR, anyway. It usually takes well over a half-hour to assemble a willing group, which then falls apart after the first wipe, usually during the opening waves.
I've tried HoR many times, and saw the second boss only once.
Krick Feb 3rd 2010 1:15AM
@ SamLowry
It sounds like you're on a low population server trying to put together a group. This is exactly what the dungeon finder was designed for. It can pull a group of people together from multiple servers. Just queue up a for HoR and let the Dungeon Finder do the rest.
I've run HoR many times on both normal and heroic. The few times we had any trouble was usually because of undergeared (or just crappy) healers, though I do remember a few times where the DPS just wasn't fast enough on the "run from the Lich King" part at the end.
...
Krick
http://www.tankadin.com
Aftermathmatical Feb 3rd 2010 2:09AM
I agree, while the effort on the idea is worthwhile, the end result wouldn't really work out.
One: More people would be less wanting to run old instances.
Two: Blizzard WANTS more ppl to run dungeons, thats why the emblem changes came. (Not just for helping people get geared)
Three: Dungeon Finder would start becoming useless as EVERYONE would be going just for the top 3 frozen halls.
Four: People who want their daily, would just drop group unless the dungeon dropped Triumph.
They didn't nerf Oculus and provide more stuff for it for nothing, and they didn't just make many dungeons faster for no point. They want people too. We want more variation, and less monotony. I love the new 5mans but damn.. I am sick of them now. I'd rather go back to older ones.
Camo Feb 3rd 2010 4:42AM
@Krick:
"The few times we had any trouble was usually because of undergeared (or just crappy) healers.."
It might not only be the healers fault, because if you get pulled into HHoR your gear is enough. I saw many dps that just stand in the mage fire and don't move and tanks that won't pick up the mobs that squish me or the dps. And sometimes it's just cc that's missing but would ease it a bit.
nordveien Feb 3rd 2010 7:15AM
I constantly found myself running one of the 3 heroics as it is. That's how random LFD works for me. It mostly puts me into either VH, or HoS, or Gundrak.
The sets are different for different people, but so far I heard many complaining about the same thing.
Krick Feb 3rd 2010 12:52PM
@ Camo
I think the problem is that the blizzard matching algorithm doesn't consider your spec and role when looking at your "blizzard gear score". It just looks at average item level or something along those lines.
I could queue for HoR up as a paladin healer while wearing my tank gear and I'd certainly get in, but I would be woefully undeargeared (and mis-specced) to heal it.
Recently, I ran HoR with 4 friends who are all sitting at 5000+ gearscore. We got a random healer from the dungeon finder. He was a shaman with a 4500-ish gear score. We all know the instance. We all know not to stand in the flame strike. We know who to kill first and who to crowd control. We wiped twice before getting to the first boss. The third attempt, we got to the first boss but ended up wiping. I was the last alive and the boss had under 1%. when I died. The healer just couldn't manage the group healing necessary. Heck, I even used LoH on the healer in the middle of the boss fight to keep him up. I suspect that the he was running out of mana. Maybe it was incorrect gemming or incorrect gearing. Unfortunately, I'll never know because I neglected to jot down his name to look him up on the armory.
...
Krick
http://www.tankadin.com
Meatwadz Feb 3rd 2010 1:59PM
@Camo Once your gear is good enough to unlock the heroics, they stay unlocked forever .. you could queue up naked and still get HoR. A couple weeks ago, I respecced resto, slapped on some greens and queued up for a random heroic... and HoR is exactly what I got. -_-