Breakfast Topic: Should we have to level every character?
by Brian Wood 
Feb 6th 2010 at 8:00AM
Without question Blizzard is continually making leveling easier, increasing XP, decreasing the amount of XP you need to level, and offering a myriad of XP-boosting heirloom items. I appreciate that Blizzard is trying to ease my pain, but why do have to level from scratch at all? Why can't I just reroll at level 55 if I already have a max level character? Or better yet, why can't I assign an alt as my "apprentice" and he gets 10% of any XP my main would have gotten. Set it up so he levels around half the rate someone actually playing at leveling, but he can eventually get up to 80 without forcing me back into a glorified Fed Ex driver again, sorting through buzzard gizzards and reading wanted posters.
Leveling is a radically different game from the endgame. I appreciate that some people enjoy and prefer that game. But many of us prefer the other game, and we don't want to play the leveling game again. We've done it. We won.
What do you think? If you already have a level 80, should you have to level your next character from scratch? Do you think that leveling really teaches you how to play a class?
Filed under: Breakfast Topics
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 12)
kidjingo Feb 6th 2010 8:04AM
Leveling a drood......(shudder)
Qot Feb 6th 2010 8:29AM
Leveling a druid: awful for the first 20 levels, slow killing but almost no downtime from 20-49... Then you get mangle and all of a sudden you're killing things at ludicrous speed.
The only way I'd ever level a druid again is if they had a BoA diary or something for five badges. Send it to the alt, he learns from your experience, gains a level. I really wish they had something like that for professions as well...
ChefCK Feb 6th 2010 8:38AM
/shudder
I leveled my Druid and Rogue in Vanilla WoW. My fiancee leveled his in Wrath and although difficult it was still easier than when I leveled mine.
If we already have a couple of 80s, any new character we roll should start out at a higher level or so.
Now, on the flip-side, we have Cataclysm and it is going to rip the old world apart and create a whole batch of new content. Would you want to miss it or just speed through it as a higher level? To give a variety of options, Blizzard could give you the option to "auto-level to level X (with a cap between 40-60)" or "start as level 1". It would require some coding, but it is possible.
jacksworth Feb 6th 2010 8:57AM
leveling is actually very quick right now. if you dont mind 5 mans and dont mind healing or tanking them. i leveled a shaman from 20 to 65 in about a week, full heirlooms though. never left thunderbluff until i got to outlands (had to get those quest rewards).
i hope they never let you start from 55. and i can tell you why with one word: deathknights. (or is that 2 words?)
Colerejuste Feb 6th 2010 9:19AM
@jacksworth. DKs arent a reason, they're an example of starting at a high level, and it's great! I have 8 80s and 2 70s on Malygos, and I've just re-rolled to something more in my timezone (Aman'Thul, an Oceanic realm). It's been great starting at 55, getting to 70 in 2 weeks (did alot of profession grinding first).
Now, if starting at lvl55 were available for any class, we'd have alot less DKs running around, and a bit more of an equal spread. Sure, Blizzard seem to think that all the other classes need to start from lvl1, so you get to "master" the abilities of the class, but I leveled my Druid on Malygos via RaF gifted levels, and that druid is one of my favourite toons. In fact, one of the reasons for re-rolling was so that I'd have a spare slot for a Worgen Druid when Cataclysm hits without having to destroy one of my toons on Malygos. And I'm too cheap to pay for a transfer. And I want to try playing like alot of people do, only 1 main and maybe an alt, without a plethora of alts providing all the services I usually use.
When Cataclysm hits, I'll try leveling a Goblin until he's done with the intro quests, and I'll level that Worgen all the way to 85, just to see how the 1-60 level has changed. But I'd love the option to skip from 60 to 70 (or more) after I've already done the leveling quests. I've no desire to level through Outland for the 12th time, nor Northend for the 10th.
schmO Feb 6th 2010 9:56AM
Blizzard will never change their leveling standpoint, and I don't think they should. Having 6 80s is a very rare convenience that not a lot of people have. However, it's certainly an easier with heirlooms, increase XP gains, battlegrounds and the dungeon finder. You also have free leveling guides online (Jame, here's to you) that can get you to 80 in a minimum of time. And not everyone has been playing since Vanilla, myself included.
As much as it can be considered an annoyance, handing out 55 levels for Death Knights was a game mechanic that Blizzard set as a way to ensure that the player could be up and raiding/leveling with a DK with little time or effort.
The leveling experience will change entirely with the addition of two new races and an entirely different set of quests and zone levels. Dungeons will be revamped, professions are being added, and new zones in Azeroth will appear. There will be a much greater emphasis on leveling a toon from 1-85.
I hope with Cataclysm that a bit less homogenization takes place and some of the classes gain some unique abilities that raid and guild leaders can weigh along with their slot/application considerations.
Melvyl Feb 6th 2010 10:08AM
I have a lvl49 Druid that I am leveling with the caster heirloom gear (shoulders, robe, staff). It went something like this...
Starting Zone - Easy
Teldrassil - Hard
Elwynn - Easy
Azuremyst - Easy
Bloodmyst - Easy
Redridge - Impossible
I finally gave up on balance and tried feral but was no good at it. When 3.3 hit, I switched to Resto and she has pretty much hangs out in Dalaran except to train, supply or level herbalism. It has been great to see all the dungeons like Mara that I hadn't seen before and I have enjoyed learning the new abilities as they arrive. The only thing I would like to see is maybe have the XP gain boosted a bit more. Gaining two levels in Gnomer was much more rewarding than gaining 1/4 of a level in ST.
Mike Feb 6th 2010 11:01AM
@Colerejuste Indeed, I have a Mage and a Warlock who were levelled from 15 each to 40 from RAF granted levels, and I don't know those classes any less as a result. Now, admittedly, that's because I did level them to 15 first so I could learn the basic mechanics. That being said, the Warlock is on a fresh server where I've no main to financially support, so I can't even afford training or mounts :(
Squirr3llywrath9 Feb 6th 2010 11:12AM
Druids get really easy once you hit 20. Even easier at 50. If you want real pain you should have leveled ret in vanilla/BC. Literally took a minute or so for a mob to die if SoComm didn't proc and there was the social stigma of being a lulret. Kids now have it easy.
Beruza Feb 6th 2010 1:32PM
Leveling a Druid in vanilla sucked, especially since it was my first toon and I didn't really know what I was doing. I only made it to level 30.
I started a new one a few months ago with some BoA gear and a little more understanding of the class. I would have to say it has been a pretty fun and easy trip to level 54.
Servetus Feb 6th 2010 1:37PM
I agree with schmO's point. Having multiple 80s is a great advantage. I have a paladin, hunter, and druid at 80, a priest at 75 and countless other alts in the 55 to 65 level range. So, I level...a lot. Any of my characters to reach 80 is special to me, I've invested enough time in it that I won't go around being a jackass, I'll take the time to collect some gear and grind some rep, etc.
Death Knights are a great example of the good and the bad of "head start leveling." Because level 58 is the new level 1 for DKs, players can make one extremely fast and get into Outland with it. With no commitment or effort expended toward the character, boorish behavior frequently ensues.
I level a lot. I have as much reason to hate it as anyone. But I don't want to see everyone starting their characters at 55. One class of that is enough. I don't need level 60 priests healing when the player has no experience at it and maybe no commitment to it. Heirlooms and XP changes make leveling very fast now. There is no reason to do more.
Chris Feb 6th 2010 6:06PM
Because then you have an 80 and have no idea how to play it. Sure you can read rotations but you'll never think of rare abilities on profession.
nlv1977 Feb 6th 2010 11:28PM
I already have 7 80s working on 8, I dont think you should be able to level starting at 55 No, tis part of the reason I refuse to roll a Deathknight, part of the character creation and learning process to me is going through all those starter levels and being able to do lower instances and raids to learn your class, if they allow something like that to happen then something like I saw in a heroic the other night will be commonplace, a Deathknight in Full epics doing 500 dps, and yes that really happened.
Actually that wasnt the worse for me the worse was Auc Cypts, a Hunter rolling on caster gear, but his reply was it has gem slots to he can attune it to his needs, once we were done I armored the guy, almost Full leather/Mail caster gear and was even geming for Spellpower.
elvendude Feb 8th 2010 3:29PM
@Chris
So, I have six 80's. I leveled all of them the hard way, pre-dungeon finder. You know what? I don't know how to play four them end game.
Experience leveling does not equal knowledge of the class. I would have no better knowledge of the class if I were handed an 80 than I do as a freshly leveled 80.
The main reason for this is that your endgame role is often different than your leveling role. Sure, I leveled my priest shadow. But I'm disc now. Shadow leveling does not make me a good healer.
Sure, I leveled my shaman enhance. That doesn't make me a good elemental shaman.
Sure, I leveled my hunter BM. That gives me 0 skill in when to misdirect and how, when it's a bad idea to feign death, how not to pull off the tank, etc.
Etc.
Leveling does not make you better at a class.
Firefoenix Feb 6th 2010 8:05AM
Ooo I like the apprentice idea!
Skittles Feb 6th 2010 10:53AM
I see a few small problems with this, (im assuming you dont have a whole lot of money to spare) first off, your gathering profession, unless you set aside time to farm running dungeons to level is not going to give you enough skillpoints, second you need the money you make from professions so you can eventually get your epic mounts (once again unless you are setting aside extra time to farm on main etc)
jasonkidd1234 Feb 6th 2010 8:06AM
Eh, I used to HATE leveling. Getting my first 80 seemed like an eternity.
Now I'm working on my third 80. But I wouldn't mind instituting something like
For ever 80 character you have, you can create ONE character that is level 55.
And if they thought that was too much, they could make it so you could only do it once per server.
It would GREATLY increase the number of people with NON-DK's at 80, and just might give us a few more Healers at the end game.
flawless Feb 6th 2010 9:33AM
Levelling is there so you learn how to play a class - I know that when I first played my friends 60 Hunter (having played a rogue to 40) I didn't have a single clue. I tried to take down two gankers who had been preying upon my rogue and got my ass thoroughly kicked. They knew their 40 levels, I didnt have a clue about the hunters 60.
If you want evidence that the levelling process works, do the random Heroic at 80 a lot (Perky Pug on two 80s myself) and watch for ebayers.
Blackthorn Feb 6th 2010 9:51AM
As someone with 10 level 80s, who leveled every single one without XP increases, heirlooms, recruit a friend, or even the XP boost below level 70, I can honestly say I don't see what all the fuss is about.
Granted, a lot of that leveling was done years ago, as I had 9 60s in vanilla and 9 70s in BC, and there wasn't nearly as much TO do in those days aside from level. But it grinds my gears to hear players whine about having to level a SECOND character to 80.
For me, it's the opposite - Leveling a first character through new content is my least favorite experience, because I don't know where to go or what I may be missing out on. As I go through the same level range again on other characters, I try to seek out new content I missed the first time. By the fourth or fifth time I really start to enjoy it, as I've got it down to a finely tuned science, I like to see how quickly and efficiently I can run the quests, but there's always room for improvement.
I should add that I'm not a glutton for punishment, and leveling isn't even my favorite part of the game, but it takes such a tiny portion of time compared to what you spend at endgame, it hardly seems worth complaining about.
5 days played is about what it takes to level 1-80 these days, not counting RAF or heirlooms. Two weeks of real time at the most. Now think about how much time it takes to save up emblems of frost for one piece of T10.
If you think you should be able to roll a new character in less time than it takes to buy a hat...
Just remember we used to have to level on foot, uphill both ways...
GiveBite Feb 6th 2010 10:49AM
@Blackthorn: 5 days played should only take two weeks at MOST!?!??! You just said people will be playing a minimum of 8 hours 34 minutes a DAY for two weeks. Do you realize many people have jobs or school? Actually, almost everyone has one of the two.