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2-07-2010 @ 11:20PM
very thorough and informative for the new player A++
2-07-2010 @ 11:34PM
2 exceptions I find in your article:Glyph of Renew: is nice but the 20% is mixed in with the talents so you don't get a true 20% boost to the healing from the glyph. A renew spamming holy priest will generally not want to take this glyph as it is a net hps loss and the extra three seconds the renew sits on a target makes it easier to blanket additional targets with renews. The exception to this glyph could be tank healing priests since you put more healing in a a shorter amount of time on one target (ie the tank). But the glyph gets you more healing but less healing overall.The talent healing prayers is a good place to snatch 2 points from if you don't need mana. Pom on cooldown is vital to priests but 20% off an already cheap spell is not make or break. I find this talent only advisable if you are going oom. Then it is a better talent to take. But this is definately a place you can get more from. Also blessed resilience the 3% boost to healing all the time vs. the 12% from test of faith. Overall blessed resilience is better for more throughput, and your argument about saving lives is very valid. The one thing I take exception to is that if your healing team is working together you will generally only get one cast to top somoene up. So extra healing for you may just mean overheal for the shaman's chain heal or druids hot ticks. You will get more throughput from the other talents on a regular basis.Overall a great article for a new or aspiring priests.
2-08-2010 @ 2:41AM
That's too bad about it not stacking with renew talents. Do you have a parse testing that? I'd love to see it.I haven't equipped the renew glyph since pre 3.1 when it was one of the only few decent glyphs available as a disc PvPer. I liked it a lot back then, and I kept it on as I broke into Naxx as a holy priest, figuring even if I had to re-apply it more it was going to have a higher chance to be effective (as in EFFECTIVE, not 'effective healing' meter effective). You can probably tell by now I'm less about throughput for the sake of throughput, and more about 'what will benefit my targets/raid most?' Based on what you've said mana efficiency would go down using the glyph, but it might have its place in the right raid team or fight, even if you can't have it up on every raid member at once. I'll have to test it out just to see how it suits my tastes. Inefficient healing tends to make my skin crawl, but we'll see.And yeah you're right about Healing Prayers. PoM is very cheap. Though PoH isn't; then again, I'm shocked if I use PoH more than twice a fight. I do notice when I pug though, that many holy priests treat PoH as a go-to spell, so I suppose it becomes another subjective thing. I'll probably go switch that to another optional talent. Holy is so non-concrete compared to disc! =P
2-08-2010 @ 5:18AM
@Dawn Moore:Renew when glyphed will heal for the same amount over a shorter period of time.10k / 12 seconds: 830 HpS10k / 9 seconds: 1111 HpSOn the opic of Renew, it has the largest coefficient of all our spells and costs less than Flash Heal. Once a Holy priest gets to a certain gear level (generally 245+ gear), Renew almost replaces Flash Heal for raid healing. In terms of spellpower, around 3100 is nice for this. I say it almost replaces FH because sometimes getting 5k out now is what'll keep the raider alive.
2-08-2010 @ 8:08AM
@AvanGlyph of renew causes your renew ticks to heal for 25% more than normal on the tooltip but here it is in practice.My renew is fully talented and has an empowered renew tick of 1890(non-crit) and ticks 5 times for 2520 per tick = 14490 over 15 seconds.Glyphed renew (for me also) has an empowered renew tick of 1890(non-crit) and ticks 4 times for 3005 per tick = 13910 over 12 seconds.While this would seem to be more HPS it is a net HPS loss since the spell now heals for less. The glyph's actual percentage in my build (renew specced with blessed resilience) is actually 16.14% increase per renew tick. This is because the way blizzard applies multiplicitive percentages is off the base amount of the heal and not on top of the final talented heal. The glyph actually causes you to make your spell heal for less overall in order to have it heal a little more per tick.@Dawn(Don't have a parse) but it is easy to self check it as you see the tick is not actually 25% more than the non-glyphed tick.To calculate the true hps loss you have to factor the number of times casted over a period of time. But in this situation if you were doing an aura fight like twins and casted 3 renews every 5 seconds over 3 minutes you would end up with these raw numbers:36 x (non=glyphed) 14490= 521640 or 2898 HPS36 x (glyphed) 13910 = 500760 or 2782 HPSor a net loss of roughly 4% healing.You could argue that on one hand each tick will heal each person more and on the other hand each tick will end up with more overhealing. So it really depends on the fight/playstyle if the glyph is beneficial or not..but at face value the glyph's tooltip is very tricky.But yes, the overall beauty of the holy tree is the flexibility to change the talents to suit your style. (in regards to healing prayers) Mana saving talents can be compared to your take on meta-gems. If you aren't having mana problems does it really matter? This is one of those places where if you have a little used spell or plenty of regen then you can scavenge some points for throughput or that terrible(I agree lazy) talent of body and soul..or lightwell etc. I have found though at my gear level (260 avg ilevel) with double solace it is very difficult to burn my mana especially if I use shadowfiend/HoH. So I have tended to go for more throughput vs. mana efficiency.
2-08-2010 @ 10:43AM
@Cthulu, keep in mind that I come at this out of ignorance - I haven't been a Holy priest since BC. That said, I'm looking at your math and I'm not sure it's quite right.Your numbers certainly look right (and you're drawing from your own healing, so I won't dispute that, but consider:Without the glyph, you get 14490 over 15 seconds. With the glyph, you get 13910 over 12 seconds. (It looks like the glyph is actually only providing 20% more healing per tick (~2500 vs ~3000); I wonder why that's so.) That's certainly less HPM (untalented, Renew costs 657 mana, so you get 22 healing per mana unglyphed, and 21 HPM glyphed), and makes the spell less efficient. But you get 966 healing per second from unglyphed Renew (14490 healing/15 seconds), and ~1159 healing per second from glyphed Renew (13910/12 seconds).To come at it from a different direction, assume that you have Renew ticking for 15 seconds, regardless of whether or not it's glyphed. (If it is, you have to recast it at second 12.) Unglyphed, you get 14490 healed over those 15 seconds; but glyphed, you get 16915 healed over the same 15 seconds (13910 over the first 12, plus another 3005 from the first tick of the recast Renew).Am I doing something wrong? Like I said, I'm not a Holy priest and haven't been one for a year and a half, so if there's something I'm overlooking, please tell me.
2-08-2010 @ 1:06PM
@chrisWhat I was specifically looking at was a single cast renew glyphed and unglyphed. The glyph states it increases the amount healed by 25% per tick(the actual percentage is less as you can see from the 2nd post) but heals over 12 seconds instead of 15. So you get 4 ticks instead of five (regardless of if you have empowered renew or not..that is not affected by the glyph). The actual percent increase per tick for me was around 16% (not even 20%) and I welcome any priest to try it out if you have the time and gold to spare.Glyph of renew does make the ticks bigger (no doubt) but the benefit in a renew spec where you want to fill the gaps as much as possible it isn't as efficient. If you are casting renew on 1 target and reapplying it exactly when it falls off you will get more hps than the standard renew but at a higher mana cost. But the standard renew heals for more over the duration of the spell vs. the glyphed renew. The only thing in your post I was not sure about is why you would recast a renew @ 12 seconds when it lasts for 15. If your clipping your renews then that throws the math a whole different direction (like dps dot clipping it is horribly inefficient.) If your clipping renew, you might as well just flash heal the person because you are not able to spread your healing out between circle/pom.The reason the glyph doesn't provide a true 25% increase is the way blizzard calculates modifiers on spells. The modifier is a percent of a percent of a percent...in simple terms they don't just add the percents up. You don't take 15% + 15% +25% to get 55% more and you don't add the 25% from the glyph on top of the spell after the talents have been factored. I will try to find an exact formula again and post it so you can see why 25% is not 25% necessarily.
2-08-2010 @ 2:27PM
@Cthulu, if you're looking at just a single spellcast, then yes, Glyph of Renew does seem to reduce the amount healed (and the HPM). But in terms of HPS it's still an increase, because the unglyphed Renew has to be divided by 15 seconds and the glyphed Renew is divided by 12 seconds.I certainly wouldn't recast a non-glyphed Renew at second 12; what I meant was that glyphed Renew only lasts 12 seconds, so you'd have to recast then to get it to stay up for 15 seconds.I can see why it wouldn't be a pure 25% increase because buffs like that are usually multiplicative, not additive - [base healing] * 1.05 (Twin Disciplines) * 1.15 (Improved Renew) * (1.15 * Spellpower) (Empowered Renew) * 1.25 (Glyph of Renew) - but that should make it heal for MORE, not less. I'll be interested to see the links you have - something here just doesn't smell right to me. (I don't think you're wrong - I DO think there might be a bug somewhere, because glyphs shouldn't make a spell worse!)(Oh, but I bet I know why - the spell power coefficient isn't going up to compensate for the number of ticks going down. I'll have to do some thinking about that.)
2-10-2010 @ 12:24PM
/clap! Enjoyable article and useful for me, too. Either of my priests usually only get in on five and ten mans; 25 mans are a whole different ball game, and this article helped open my eyes to a few spec quirks that I didn't really recognize before.! See! even someone who's been playing since '05 can learn something new every day! ;) Thanks for the input on talents.Speaking of talents, and dual speccing, for anyone getting into later-ICC bosses that are very HPS and or Single target heal heavy, you may want to have two specs holy.. one geared toward raid/aoe/renew using and one toward greater heal/renew using. Especially for Dreamwalker if you're going to be healing on the boss. Don't forget to change out your glyphs for her, too; any single target glyphs. My main's a shammy, so we don't have as many kewl options for healing spec swaps as priests do! Full-time-healing-priests should be thankful, and utilize all their spells and talenting options to the fullest.
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