Officers' Quarters: Multiple personalities
Every Monday Scott Andrews contributes Officers' Quarters, a column about the ins and outs of guild leadership.
Sharing accounts is an issue that I've talked about in the past (and I'm sure, in some people's opinions, beaten to death). Previously I've covered a few different situations. First there was a general question about the issue, which I answered back in 2007. Then there was an officer who shared his account with his girlfriend (which is still a terrible idea in my opinion). Finally, a guild leader's account was banned because he bought it from another player, and his guild's progression subsequently skidded to a halt. As if those examples weren't enough to convince you that account sharing can cause a lot of problems, here's another one:
Recently, my fellow guild officers and I decided to kick a member from our guild, which also caused three other members to leave. The person who we initially kicked from the guild had asked our guild leader for a BoE Epic item in the "Ask an Officer" tab of the bank. Our guild leader responded by saying he'd ask the officers about it before handing the axe out.
Not less than an hour later he asked another guild member to take it out of the guild bank for him. Being a good guild member, they asked the guild leader if it was okay. It was instantly perceived as being an attempt to ninja the item from the bank by trying to avoid the guild leader.
It becomes complicated here when two other new recruits come on asking why we kicked their friend from the guild. In short, they told us that there were five of them that were in the same house and all played WoW. Each had easy access to the other's account information. We were told that it was two separate people who had logged on asking for the axe.
Trying to quell things before they actually quit, I sent a letter to one of them as an officer saying how I appreciated how they approached the topic with care and did not just cause all hell to break loose in guild chat. On vent I pulled everyone down to the officer's channel [. . .] and there were mixed opinions.
With the new information that we received how one person did not know the other asked for the axe and how multiple people have all of their account information, feelings were mixed. Were we in the right for kicking this member? We couldn't have known it was two different people asking. Should we even consider letting them back in? Would it be safe not knowing who is actually taking a stack of materials out of the guild bank because they all have each other's account information?
I feel somewhat bad about the decision made, and I'd like to know whether it was right. I'm supposed to be one of the experienced officers in our guild but I'm just not sure about this topic.
With regards,
~T
First of all, I congratulate you and the members who were involved on keeping a level head here. That's all too rare these days.
Now let's talk about the conundrum. Here's the bottom line: Members who play the game this way put their officers in a no-win situation.
Your e-mail is a great examples of why it's a no-win when we don't know that members are sharing accounts. Misunderstandings like this can happen left and right.
Getting to know a player who shares accounts is a nightmare. You think you've got someone figured out, but then they act completely different one day. They come across as someone with multiple personalities.
Further, we could be holding someone accountable for someone else's bad behavior. If we ban a character from raids that's being played by someone else, the member who typically uses that toon is banned unfairly. Meanwhile, the person we banned could just hop on his or her own toon and raid with that character, completely unknown to the officers.
On the other hand, it's a no-win if we do know about an account-sharing situation. As I've said in previous columns, sharing accounts with anyone but one parent or one child is against the Terms of Use. When an officer is aware that their members are breaking the rules of the game, it puts that officer in an awkward situation. Some people aren't comfortable being complicit with that sort of thing.
Those members are also risking account bans. Your guild could be working hard gearing those characters up to take down the Lich King and then one day you find out that all those upgrades -- and the toons themselves -- are gone.
Not to mention, the day-to-day managing of those members becomes exceedingly difficult. You always have to ask who's playing the toon that you're interacting with. Different people will have different skill levels, and different strengths and weaknesses when it comes to handling raid content or PvP situations. So you have to learn who will be able to handle something with each shared character and who can't.
If you need to talk to a particular person, you have no way to know whether they're online. You have to ask, every single time. It's a huge hassle.
So, whether members tell their officers what they're doing or they don't tell the officers, they're creating problems for the guild. The problem is bad enough when there's only two people sharing one account. In this situation, there's five people sharing (I assume from the e-mail) four accounts! How could you ever keep track of who you're dealing with?
T, what you do at this point depends entirely on your comfort level with the situation (and that of your other officers). Knowing that all those people have access to the accounts, do you want to deal with that? I've told you the drawbacks. The only real advantage to you is when one person can't make a raid, but another can play the toon you need equally well. I won't gloss over that upside, but how often will it really come up?
You'll have to weigh the pros and cons. Are these people essential to your raiding progress? Will even more people gquit if they leave? Does their membership solve more problems than their account sharing may cause?
If you decide that it's worthwhile to deal with the account sharing, then go ahead and invite them back. They didn't try to cause trouble. And as far as I know they didn't break any rules specific to your guild. Just make sure all your officers know about the situation to avoid further confusion.
If you decide that it's not worth it, you can offer them a choice: Stop sharing accounts, or find another guild. If they agree to stop and you invite them back, you're risking that they might not stop -- they could just pretend that they're not sharing anymore. Sooner or later, however, you will find out. Then you'll have to gkick them for lying to you about it, and whatever gear they earned will be lost.
If it were me, I wouldn't want them in my guild. Their particular situation just has "bad news" written all over it.
/salute
Send Scott your guild-related questions, conundrums, ideas, and suggestions at scott@wow.com. You may find your question the subject of next week's Officers' Quarters!
Sharing accounts is an issue that I've talked about in the past (and I'm sure, in some people's opinions, beaten to death). Previously I've covered a few different situations. First there was a general question about the issue, which I answered back in 2007. Then there was an officer who shared his account with his girlfriend (which is still a terrible idea in my opinion). Finally, a guild leader's account was banned because he bought it from another player, and his guild's progression subsequently skidded to a halt. As if those examples weren't enough to convince you that account sharing can cause a lot of problems, here's another one:
Recently, my fellow guild officers and I decided to kick a member from our guild, which also caused three other members to leave. The person who we initially kicked from the guild had asked our guild leader for a BoE Epic item in the "Ask an Officer" tab of the bank. Our guild leader responded by saying he'd ask the officers about it before handing the axe out.
Not less than an hour later he asked another guild member to take it out of the guild bank for him. Being a good guild member, they asked the guild leader if it was okay. It was instantly perceived as being an attempt to ninja the item from the bank by trying to avoid the guild leader.
It becomes complicated here when two other new recruits come on asking why we kicked their friend from the guild. In short, they told us that there were five of them that were in the same house and all played WoW. Each had easy access to the other's account information. We were told that it was two separate people who had logged on asking for the axe.
Trying to quell things before they actually quit, I sent a letter to one of them as an officer saying how I appreciated how they approached the topic with care and did not just cause all hell to break loose in guild chat. On vent I pulled everyone down to the officer's channel [. . .] and there were mixed opinions.
With the new information that we received how one person did not know the other asked for the axe and how multiple people have all of their account information, feelings were mixed. Were we in the right for kicking this member? We couldn't have known it was two different people asking. Should we even consider letting them back in? Would it be safe not knowing who is actually taking a stack of materials out of the guild bank because they all have each other's account information?
I feel somewhat bad about the decision made, and I'd like to know whether it was right. I'm supposed to be one of the experienced officers in our guild but I'm just not sure about this topic.
With regards,
~T
First of all, I congratulate you and the members who were involved on keeping a level head here. That's all too rare these days.
Now let's talk about the conundrum. Here's the bottom line: Members who play the game this way put their officers in a no-win situation.
Your e-mail is a great examples of why it's a no-win when we don't know that members are sharing accounts. Misunderstandings like this can happen left and right.
Getting to know a player who shares accounts is a nightmare. You think you've got someone figured out, but then they act completely different one day. They come across as someone with multiple personalities.
Further, we could be holding someone accountable for someone else's bad behavior. If we ban a character from raids that's being played by someone else, the member who typically uses that toon is banned unfairly. Meanwhile, the person we banned could just hop on his or her own toon and raid with that character, completely unknown to the officers.
On the other hand, it's a no-win if we do know about an account-sharing situation. As I've said in previous columns, sharing accounts with anyone but one parent or one child is against the Terms of Use. When an officer is aware that their members are breaking the rules of the game, it puts that officer in an awkward situation. Some people aren't comfortable being complicit with that sort of thing.
Those members are also risking account bans. Your guild could be working hard gearing those characters up to take down the Lich King and then one day you find out that all those upgrades -- and the toons themselves -- are gone.
Not to mention, the day-to-day managing of those members becomes exceedingly difficult. You always have to ask who's playing the toon that you're interacting with. Different people will have different skill levels, and different strengths and weaknesses when it comes to handling raid content or PvP situations. So you have to learn who will be able to handle something with each shared character and who can't.
If you need to talk to a particular person, you have no way to know whether they're online. You have to ask, every single time. It's a huge hassle.
So, whether members tell their officers what they're doing or they don't tell the officers, they're creating problems for the guild. The problem is bad enough when there's only two people sharing one account. In this situation, there's five people sharing (I assume from the e-mail) four accounts! How could you ever keep track of who you're dealing with?
T, what you do at this point depends entirely on your comfort level with the situation (and that of your other officers). Knowing that all those people have access to the accounts, do you want to deal with that? I've told you the drawbacks. The only real advantage to you is when one person can't make a raid, but another can play the toon you need equally well. I won't gloss over that upside, but how often will it really come up?
You'll have to weigh the pros and cons. Are these people essential to your raiding progress? Will even more people gquit if they leave? Does their membership solve more problems than their account sharing may cause?
If you decide that it's worthwhile to deal with the account sharing, then go ahead and invite them back. They didn't try to cause trouble. And as far as I know they didn't break any rules specific to your guild. Just make sure all your officers know about the situation to avoid further confusion.
If you decide that it's not worth it, you can offer them a choice: Stop sharing accounts, or find another guild. If they agree to stop and you invite them back, you're risking that they might not stop -- they could just pretend that they're not sharing anymore. Sooner or later, however, you will find out. Then you'll have to gkick them for lying to you about it, and whatever gear they earned will be lost.
If it were me, I wouldn't want them in my guild. Their particular situation just has "bad news" written all over it.
/salute
Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership)
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 3)
danawhitaker Feb 8th 2010 2:35PM
Point taken actually, lol, I can see that. It never occurred to me that someone might actually have to leave a raid for that. I was thinking more about it from the security perspective of not letting other people on to browse and potentially get a keylogger that could compromise the account without the account owner's knowledge. I wouldn't want people in my raids who would do that either.
Zanathos Feb 8th 2010 4:53PM
On a related note, a few months back my girlfriend let her (adult) daughter use her computer, and the next day she got her password stolen, which I traced back to a free games site the daughter was on. The more people who use a computer, the more things that can go wrong.
Saya Apr 8th 2010 2:14PM
I understand the thought behind not sharing computer but I would have to respectively disagree with that being some sort of policy for new recruits. Plain and simple, some people don't have the means to have their own computer and if the majority of guilds did that then a large group of people would be missing out on endgame experiences. Some of my top members have to share a computer and I have yet to have a single problem with it.
As far as account sharing it's just not as cut and dry as everyone would like to claim it is.
If I live under the same roof and pay bills (including WoW subscriptions) out of the same bank account with someone else they have every right to get on my account as I do theirs. Now when I do, which is very rare, I make sure to inform the guild that it is me. We have several couples in our guild that are in the same situation: living together, paying bills together. I feel it is not my place as an officer to kick them or ask them to stay off the other persons account, or to not recruit them because they live together and might share a computer or an account. I simply ask them to inform everyone that it is someone different.
Should accounts be shared through friends? I agree that this is wrong, we do not allow it. I do think that before a decision about what to allow and what not to allow is made guild officers should look at all sides of the situation.
Rai Feb 8th 2010 1:55PM
tl;dr - accounts are like a contagious disease except fun, but you shouldn't share them anyway.
...yeah, that metaphor kinda slipped a bit.
Aureliusz Feb 9th 2010 3:44AM
What?
Kaphik Feb 8th 2010 1:56PM
With all of the accounts being compromised lately (seriously, just peruse the official forums) I'm astounded that people are still stupid enough to share account information.
Stephen Feb 8th 2010 1:58PM
Frankly I think the guild here handled they only way they could with the information that they had (i.e. not knowing there was account sharing going on). I would have assumed that the person was up to something shady given the facts at hand.
If the guild leader is in a charitable mood and/or kicking them would result in more drama than it is worth, they certainly could be re-invited, with the caveat that each of them is responsible for all of their actions and if a similar situation arises the guild will not be a forgiving.
The biggest problem with account sharing is that person A gets mad at person B (or in this case persons C, D, or E!!) and gets the account banned or deletes the toons or ninjas the bank, etc. Do you really want that drama potential in your guild?
Lars Feb 8th 2010 2:09PM
I like the article.
I've been pondering about the same thing from time to time, as I've got a few friends that share and trade accounts on a frequent basis. I know a few of my friend's account details aswell, but I never played with any of them (except from boosting a few of my alts from time to time). And mostly I use them for their tradeskills.
Back to the dilemma.
I would never let anyone in as a core part of my raid guild if they are sharing the account, be the same toon or different toons. And they would not be able to even gaze upon the stuff inside the gbank. They probably would not be kept in the guild at all. It's a risk in my opinion.
From my personal experience the players that share or trade accounts are players that has a lack of loyalty and play for the pure immediate fun of it all. Ehen it is not fun for them anymore, they go elsewhere. A new character, a new account, a new realm. Who knows? I've lost track of a few of my own friends simply because I stopped playing with them when I saw their true colors. Don't expect them to show up when fully geared and they start running out of upgrades. They are tuesday/wednesday kind of players.
Boot them, I say!
L
Clevins Feb 8th 2010 2:14PM
Don't overlook the very real chance that shared accounts are more likely to be compromised unless they all use authenticators. After all, a given account is being played from more than one computer so that account's information is at risk from all of the computers. If even one of them isn't well secured it could compromise not just one account but any account that the person on that computer logs into.
Iano Feb 8th 2010 2:17PM
Test comment here, sorry, folks-
My wife and I each have our own account, though we do know each other's account information, and I occasionally, as in, once a month on average, log in and level one of her alts (She'd like to try a healer, is an awesome hunter, and hates leveling herself. Once her healer made 60 and the refer-a-friend xp ran out, I have completely ceased using her account). We're really, really careful about all this stuff, because she is an officer, and though I'm officially not, I technically hear everything and help out, (can't really keep me away, as we're married, live in a fairly small apartment, and play WoW in the same room. Keeping me out of things is more trouble than it's worth, especially since I'm pretty laid back, quiet, and still sometimes helpful. :) )
Anyway, even with the above confession, I would STILL be leery of this situation. My wife and I are married, and I STILL understand how folks could be worried about us knowing each other's login information, and we're only two, and we're married, for gosh sakes! Imagine if one of us got vindictive?! (ain't gonna happen, but, you know, you gotta work at that marriage stuff, if either of us ever just stopped working at it, things could and probably would go south, and the stories, you know, they're terrible! My wife's parents are case in point- he's STILL ruining her credit rating!)
Anyway, I would probably gloss over this in the end under one condition: I must not 'officially' know about it. No Gbank access, and, in fact, underpriveleged, it's likely that I would ask them to remain outside the guild, at least for an 'extra' probationary period, where they raid with us for a few weeks, or even a couple of months, with guildie Suicide kings list privileges, but just proving that, you know, they're able to maintain either the illusion that they're all one guy playing those toons, or just very good behavior, fun personality, and upbeat raiding attitudes along the way. But then, I raid casually, and my guild, though mildly trying to be hardcore, is still pretty casual, so filling raids is amongst our main concerns- we just wanna get IN THERE, and kill stuff, sometimes, at least.
Priestess Feb 8th 2010 2:18PM
Ugg, I'm right at the top and on the wrong side of the fence. We have a lot of account sharing in my guild, mostly couples. But unlike the issue presented above where those officers had no idea, for us everyone's clear on who's accounts are shared and whose are not. Those of us who share our accounts are either very recognizable, or more often we'll simply say "Hey guys, it's the Mrs./Mr." Rather than being a risk, it's been very beneficial for us. Myself and my husband have almost every recipie for every profession, so either of us can be grabbed to make anything at almost any time. Same for the GM and his wife, and one other officer. That's almost instant access to anything for the guild at any time.
We have a few people who share accounts that aren't secure (read: college kid who shares his account and has no autenticator), and those people are at a rank where *when* something happens, it won't affect the guild other than "Awww, sorry your account got hacked! Maybe it's time for that authenticator!" Anyone with a significant rank is someone we know well and who we know has secured their computer/account properly.
^ That's about account sharing though. As to character sharing, that actually doesn't happen much for us. I can see that being a serious drawback in a group raid/instance situation. But each of us uses only our own charcters due to not liking our S.O.'s characters. Gogo gender differences! Since we know the other person is around somewhere, we do often hear "Hey, can you grab (other spouse) to get (character) for this raid?" rather than people using an unfamiliar character on the other account.
FInal conclusion: For the letter writer, it would seem prudent to let the character back in since the player will be there anyway, or remove them all because having that happen again is nearly a guarantee. Having a policy or clear understanding from here out would probably also be in line. Surprises are good only for presents, and imo those players should have said something when they all joined (the letter said they were new recruits). It would have been considerate of the guild leadership and other guidlies. I think it's up to guild leaders to decide their guild's policy on account sharing and make sure it's clear to the members, and maybe this guild didn't have something like that set up.
In my experience: In a guild that's large or impersonal, I can see that sharing accounts is a very risky thing. In a raid, someone sharing characters can be a very detrimental thing. But in a smaller, more intimate group where the people behind the account know each other, I don't think it's all bad.
Iano Feb 8th 2010 2:30PM
Woo! That sounds pretty interesting, priestess! I know my wife and I love playing WoW together, though we find it the most fun when we're both in the same role, like DPS and such, and can compete a little (not that I could ever match her hunter's DPS! Gee whiz, she's like a machine gun!) I usually prefer tanking or healing, though my warlock does love him some incinerates. :) I'm curious too peek into the inner workings of a guild composed of mostly S.O. teams, especially because my wife and I are trying to get pregnant, and have agreed that WoW must either stop or change once the baby actually arrives (more than 9 months from now, you know, we're not preggers yet!) Anyway, good to hear about that, and the precautions you've set sound pretty good, esp. if you don't lightly move folks from rank to rank. :)
Priestess Feb 8th 2010 2:43PM
It's not mostly SO's, we just seem to have a noticeable amount. Six sets that I can think of off the top of my head, most of whom are in officer roles. Something about mature adults, I think... www.bucklersofswash.com is where you can start if you want to investigate. We're always open to new people, and while we're in endgame, RL comes first, period. I think you'd be hardpressed to find something we haven't worked around.
Bronwyn Feb 8th 2010 3:02PM
I have to say I agree; I benefit a great deal from being able to log onto my fiance's account when needed to craft things grab mats, etc, but I can see how account sharing would be a bad idea in many cases. We're also very up front about it and if it bothers a guild we don't have any problems with that; it means we're not a good fit.
jub Feb 8th 2010 2:29PM
Having an "Ask an Officer" tab is asking for situations like this to occur.
Mecer Feb 8th 2010 2:51PM
So the big question in my eyes, is why does any non-officer have acess to the "Ask an officer tab"?
A) if they dont, there really isnt any harm in the situation and having multiple people ask about an item on behalf of the item. A gkick is overkill here imo.
and
B) if non-officers do have acess, you are just asking to have your bank be ninja'd. Either but a disgruntled member or a hacked account. Guild bank security has nothing to do with trust, its all about protecting the funds the guild has generated.
Hoggersbud Feb 8th 2010 3:25PM
Presumably the tab is on View/Deposit, but not Withdraw.
Some guilds do that so they can keep things like BoEs available without having no control over them.
Priestess Feb 8th 2010 3:42PM
@ mercer
Hogger's right, there is an option to allow people to see but not access contents of the guild bank. My guild has a member tab (one withdraw for members, 10 for veterans), a veteran tab (veterans only with 5 withdrawals), and the raid tabs. Contents of all tabs are visable to all guildies (we have lower ranks than those above), but below Member you have no access unless you ask the officers, and they'll check with the treasurer. Also, Blizzard has kindly inserted an Info tab, and we require that when people withdraw they note what and why on it. It maintains control and order while allowing everyone as much access as safely possible.
Zanathos Feb 8th 2010 4:58PM
So instead all the guild bank tabs should be unlimited access to all?
Gimmlette Feb 8th 2010 2:32PM
I don't like it. I discourage it and the guild Code of Conduct says anything that is ToS violation can get you kicked immediately. That being said, I have several husband/wife duos who log onto each others accounts for various reasons although they never raid as the others toon. I also have a guy whose best friend plays his alts, never his main. He hates leveling professions and the friend loves to level, hates to raid. In both cases, it works out for them and for us.
The thing about these situations is, when they log on and an officer or myself is on, they immediately notify someone that they are not who usually plays the toon. I've gotten so I know the quirks of the people playing so even if Dean forgets to tell me he's playing Gregg's toon, I know it's him.
Honestly, we had more problems with siblings getting onto each others accounts than with husband/wife or adult friends. I would like to see Blizzard allow spouses to have access to each others accounts without it being a ToS violation. I'm not sure how that would be enforced. In theory, if you are playing together, there's a certain degree of trust that you wouldn't mess with the main character.
I agree that a shared account is very bad news, it's just that, from my own experience, there is a gray area that makes it an individual guild decision.