Officers' Quarters: Multiple personalities
Every Monday Scott Andrews contributes Officers' Quarters, a column about the ins and outs of guild leadership.
Sharing accounts is an issue that I've talked about in the past (and I'm sure, in some people's opinions, beaten to death). Previously I've covered a few different situations. First there was a general question about the issue, which I answered back in 2007. Then there was an officer who shared his account with his girlfriend (which is still a terrible idea in my opinion). Finally, a guild leader's account was banned because he bought it from another player, and his guild's progression subsequently skidded to a halt. As if those examples weren't enough to convince you that account sharing can cause a lot of problems, here's another one:
Recently, my fellow guild officers and I decided to kick a member from our guild, which also caused three other members to leave. The person who we initially kicked from the guild had asked our guild leader for a BoE Epic item in the "Ask an Officer" tab of the bank. Our guild leader responded by saying he'd ask the officers about it before handing the axe out.
Not less than an hour later he asked another guild member to take it out of the guild bank for him. Being a good guild member, they asked the guild leader if it was okay. It was instantly perceived as being an attempt to ninja the item from the bank by trying to avoid the guild leader.
It becomes complicated here when two other new recruits come on asking why we kicked their friend from the guild. In short, they told us that there were five of them that were in the same house and all played WoW. Each had easy access to the other's account information. We were told that it was two separate people who had logged on asking for the axe.
Trying to quell things before they actually quit, I sent a letter to one of them as an officer saying how I appreciated how they approached the topic with care and did not just cause all hell to break loose in guild chat. On vent I pulled everyone down to the officer's channel [. . .] and there were mixed opinions.
With the new information that we received how one person did not know the other asked for the axe and how multiple people have all of their account information, feelings were mixed. Were we in the right for kicking this member? We couldn't have known it was two different people asking. Should we even consider letting them back in? Would it be safe not knowing who is actually taking a stack of materials out of the guild bank because they all have each other's account information?
I feel somewhat bad about the decision made, and I'd like to know whether it was right. I'm supposed to be one of the experienced officers in our guild but I'm just not sure about this topic.
With regards,
~T
First of all, I congratulate you and the members who were involved on keeping a level head here. That's all too rare these days.
Now let's talk about the conundrum. Here's the bottom line: Members who play the game this way put their officers in a no-win situation.
Your e-mail is a great examples of why it's a no-win when we don't know that members are sharing accounts. Misunderstandings like this can happen left and right.
Getting to know a player who shares accounts is a nightmare. You think you've got someone figured out, but then they act completely different one day. They come across as someone with multiple personalities.
Further, we could be holding someone accountable for someone else's bad behavior. If we ban a character from raids that's being played by someone else, the member who typically uses that toon is banned unfairly. Meanwhile, the person we banned could just hop on his or her own toon and raid with that character, completely unknown to the officers.
On the other hand, it's a no-win if we do know about an account-sharing situation. As I've said in previous columns, sharing accounts with anyone but one parent or one child is against the Terms of Use. When an officer is aware that their members are breaking the rules of the game, it puts that officer in an awkward situation. Some people aren't comfortable being complicit with that sort of thing.
Those members are also risking account bans. Your guild could be working hard gearing those characters up to take down the Lich King and then one day you find out that all those upgrades -- and the toons themselves -- are gone.
Not to mention, the day-to-day managing of those members becomes exceedingly difficult. You always have to ask who's playing the toon that you're interacting with. Different people will have different skill levels, and different strengths and weaknesses when it comes to handling raid content or PvP situations. So you have to learn who will be able to handle something with each shared character and who can't.
If you need to talk to a particular person, you have no way to know whether they're online. You have to ask, every single time. It's a huge hassle.
So, whether members tell their officers what they're doing or they don't tell the officers, they're creating problems for the guild. The problem is bad enough when there's only two people sharing one account. In this situation, there's five people sharing (I assume from the e-mail) four accounts! How could you ever keep track of who you're dealing with?
T, what you do at this point depends entirely on your comfort level with the situation (and that of your other officers). Knowing that all those people have access to the accounts, do you want to deal with that? I've told you the drawbacks. The only real advantage to you is when one person can't make a raid, but another can play the toon you need equally well. I won't gloss over that upside, but how often will it really come up?
You'll have to weigh the pros and cons. Are these people essential to your raiding progress? Will even more people gquit if they leave? Does their membership solve more problems than their account sharing may cause?
If you decide that it's worthwhile to deal with the account sharing, then go ahead and invite them back. They didn't try to cause trouble. And as far as I know they didn't break any rules specific to your guild. Just make sure all your officers know about the situation to avoid further confusion.
If you decide that it's not worth it, you can offer them a choice: Stop sharing accounts, or find another guild. If they agree to stop and you invite them back, you're risking that they might not stop -- they could just pretend that they're not sharing anymore. Sooner or later, however, you will find out. Then you'll have to gkick them for lying to you about it, and whatever gear they earned will be lost.
If it were me, I wouldn't want them in my guild. Their particular situation just has "bad news" written all over it.
/salute
Send Scott your guild-related questions, conundrums, ideas, and suggestions at scott@wow.com. You may find your question the subject of next week's Officers' Quarters!
Sharing accounts is an issue that I've talked about in the past (and I'm sure, in some people's opinions, beaten to death). Previously I've covered a few different situations. First there was a general question about the issue, which I answered back in 2007. Then there was an officer who shared his account with his girlfriend (which is still a terrible idea in my opinion). Finally, a guild leader's account was banned because he bought it from another player, and his guild's progression subsequently skidded to a halt. As if those examples weren't enough to convince you that account sharing can cause a lot of problems, here's another one:
Recently, my fellow guild officers and I decided to kick a member from our guild, which also caused three other members to leave. The person who we initially kicked from the guild had asked our guild leader for a BoE Epic item in the "Ask an Officer" tab of the bank. Our guild leader responded by saying he'd ask the officers about it before handing the axe out.
Not less than an hour later he asked another guild member to take it out of the guild bank for him. Being a good guild member, they asked the guild leader if it was okay. It was instantly perceived as being an attempt to ninja the item from the bank by trying to avoid the guild leader.
It becomes complicated here when two other new recruits come on asking why we kicked their friend from the guild. In short, they told us that there were five of them that were in the same house and all played WoW. Each had easy access to the other's account information. We were told that it was two separate people who had logged on asking for the axe.
Trying to quell things before they actually quit, I sent a letter to one of them as an officer saying how I appreciated how they approached the topic with care and did not just cause all hell to break loose in guild chat. On vent I pulled everyone down to the officer's channel [. . .] and there were mixed opinions.
With the new information that we received how one person did not know the other asked for the axe and how multiple people have all of their account information, feelings were mixed. Were we in the right for kicking this member? We couldn't have known it was two different people asking. Should we even consider letting them back in? Would it be safe not knowing who is actually taking a stack of materials out of the guild bank because they all have each other's account information?
I feel somewhat bad about the decision made, and I'd like to know whether it was right. I'm supposed to be one of the experienced officers in our guild but I'm just not sure about this topic.
With regards,
~T
First of all, I congratulate you and the members who were involved on keeping a level head here. That's all too rare these days.
Now let's talk about the conundrum. Here's the bottom line: Members who play the game this way put their officers in a no-win situation.
Your e-mail is a great examples of why it's a no-win when we don't know that members are sharing accounts. Misunderstandings like this can happen left and right.
Getting to know a player who shares accounts is a nightmare. You think you've got someone figured out, but then they act completely different one day. They come across as someone with multiple personalities.
Further, we could be holding someone accountable for someone else's bad behavior. If we ban a character from raids that's being played by someone else, the member who typically uses that toon is banned unfairly. Meanwhile, the person we banned could just hop on his or her own toon and raid with that character, completely unknown to the officers.
On the other hand, it's a no-win if we do know about an account-sharing situation. As I've said in previous columns, sharing accounts with anyone but one parent or one child is against the Terms of Use. When an officer is aware that their members are breaking the rules of the game, it puts that officer in an awkward situation. Some people aren't comfortable being complicit with that sort of thing.
Those members are also risking account bans. Your guild could be working hard gearing those characters up to take down the Lich King and then one day you find out that all those upgrades -- and the toons themselves -- are gone.
Not to mention, the day-to-day managing of those members becomes exceedingly difficult. You always have to ask who's playing the toon that you're interacting with. Different people will have different skill levels, and different strengths and weaknesses when it comes to handling raid content or PvP situations. So you have to learn who will be able to handle something with each shared character and who can't.
If you need to talk to a particular person, you have no way to know whether they're online. You have to ask, every single time. It's a huge hassle.
So, whether members tell their officers what they're doing or they don't tell the officers, they're creating problems for the guild. The problem is bad enough when there's only two people sharing one account. In this situation, there's five people sharing (I assume from the e-mail) four accounts! How could you ever keep track of who you're dealing with?
T, what you do at this point depends entirely on your comfort level with the situation (and that of your other officers). Knowing that all those people have access to the accounts, do you want to deal with that? I've told you the drawbacks. The only real advantage to you is when one person can't make a raid, but another can play the toon you need equally well. I won't gloss over that upside, but how often will it really come up?
You'll have to weigh the pros and cons. Are these people essential to your raiding progress? Will even more people gquit if they leave? Does their membership solve more problems than their account sharing may cause?
If you decide that it's worthwhile to deal with the account sharing, then go ahead and invite them back. They didn't try to cause trouble. And as far as I know they didn't break any rules specific to your guild. Just make sure all your officers know about the situation to avoid further confusion.
If you decide that it's not worth it, you can offer them a choice: Stop sharing accounts, or find another guild. If they agree to stop and you invite them back, you're risking that they might not stop -- they could just pretend that they're not sharing anymore. Sooner or later, however, you will find out. Then you'll have to gkick them for lying to you about it, and whatever gear they earned will be lost.
If it were me, I wouldn't want them in my guild. Their particular situation just has "bad news" written all over it.
/salute
Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership)
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Reader Comments (Page 3 of 3)
Bronwyn Feb 8th 2010 3:05PM
This was a really well thought-out post and I have to agree; to some extent, adult couples or even just adult friends who have access to accounts are far less of a problem than siblings and younger players; which I tend to chalk up to trust and maturity.
Hoggersbud Feb 8th 2010 3:32PM
Sharing accounts is something that happens in my guild, but I can't say I like it, and I don't participate. I would say something publicly, but I'd rather not make waves over it. Most of the folks who do it are those who live in the same house and the like, and mostly they just do it to craft something, or finish a daily. So it's not a big problem. And luckily no major incidents have happened with it yet.
Yet.
If it does happen, well, I won't say I told you so, but I would have.
fufu Feb 8th 2010 3:38PM
Seems like an over reaction to me, since both officers said "Let me check with the Guild Leader".
However, the excuse does not seem very good to me. If they all play wow, they all have their own characters, why are they asking for a character that it is not their main.
As for account sharing, I have done this so that I can have access to enchants and gem cuts when i'm not around or my buddy isn't on.
Also, some people have multiple accounts tied to their battlenet account, so they can have more then 1 character logged on at a time depending on the account it is tied to.
Personally, I dont agree with the TOS. Its your account, if you want to run that risk that should be on you. I'm sure alot of people wont agree with me, but thats just the way I see it.
Priestess Feb 8th 2010 3:51PM
Unless I'm mistaken, the ToS is at least in part to cover Blizzard's butt, so when the unintelligent people who pass out their account info get things stolen by other users or hacked (and, in many cases, have things taken from their guild as well when guilds are not careful) Blizzard can leave them with their consequences. "Oh ho ho, you shared your account! Well, we can ban you to protect others, and we don't have to give you your stuff back either."
It's not just you who's affected by your account in this type of a game, ESPECIALLY if you are in a guild.
Neirin Feb 8th 2010 3:41PM
I'd be curious how long these people were in the guild. If they've been in the guild a while and this is only just now coming to light, I doubt it has been much of a problem in the past. I've had friends ask me to check their auctions or do a crafting cooldown or something if they're out of town, so I technically know their info, but it's not like I'm really sharing their account. The situation in the article seems very similar, and I would guess that the account sharing is mostly harmless. I'm not going to endorse account sharing, but I don't think these people should be punished for helping out a roommate/family member/whatever they are.
Sadaye Feb 8th 2010 3:47PM
Here are my two cents as a Guild leader.
If I found out one of my players was sharing account info, I would take them aside and remind them that account sharing is against the TOS, and that puts their account in a perilous position. I'm not going to report them or anything, but I'd advise that they be very careful about their situation. I would hate to be depending on them for a raid only to find out they got banned, it puts me in an awkward spot.
I would also warn them that I will hold them accountable for anything done on that character, no matter who's behind the computer at the time it happens. In my opinion, by giving your account information to someone else, you're saying that they have your OK to do whatever they're doing on your character. Don't want to be held accountable for someone else's actions? Don't share your account info with them.
Zandrae Feb 8th 2010 3:51PM
I have a few raiders who do log into each other's characters from time to time. They're both solid players, they're a real life couple, and they have authenticators. They have RL accountability for their misbehavior, so it just doesn't happen. Use of Ventrilo (communication) is typically helpful because they'll usually tell me if they're on the other toon.
Account sharing is bad (risky for viruses and stuff) but sometimes it can be a necessary evil. The last thing you want to have happen is to have your net cut out and stay out while doing master looter on the last boss in a raid instance. I telephoned one of my officers and walked him through getting into my account (including reading him the authenticator code) so he could finish doing loot. Had I not done this, there may have wound up some negativity on my credibility as a raid leader.
kadield Feb 8th 2010 4:48PM
In our guild we found out that an officer gave his username/password to someone that wasn't even in the guild (a RL friend of his, but still).....
Put the kabosh on that one!
Kylenne Feb 8th 2010 6:11PM
Account sharing is just plain bad news. The only time I ever gave my info to anyone was to my ex while we were still dating, and only then because sometimes I would get stuck in Dalaran and be unable to log on. He would hop on the toon and move it down to the forest and log right off. Occasionally he would also log my main if he badly needed an enchant and I wasn't around (i was the only enchanter in the guild, but that happened maybe three or four times total.
Needless to say, when we broke up the first thing I did was change my password.
Soulbento Feb 8th 2010 6:12PM
I've been in several guilds composed of mostly real life friends, and in these circles it was often handy to have people's information. Though there was some structure to it, everyone didn't just have everyone's info, everyone had one or two other account's they could access. And our account information wasn't shared beyond this tighter inner circle of officers and guild leaders. It came in handy in raids where our sometimes odd raid compositions would make encounters difficult to impossible (think vanilla and BC raiding.) Despite being against the terms of service, it allowed us a lot more flexibility in the days before dual spec. If our priest healer couldn't log on that night, someone had to log his account to give the raid fort and shadow protection.
slunk Feb 8th 2010 6:20PM
If you are mature and can avoid drama, there is no reason for you to not share your account with someone you trust.
I have been sharing accounts in MMOs for 10 years. I had an account I owned banned 3 years after I quit EQ. I hadn't payed for the account for 5 years at the time, so it was no loss to me at all.
Like anything else in life, if you lend something to someone, don't expect to ever get it back. Be glad when you do, but don't expect it back. Follow this rule and you will never be disappointed.
rkaliski Feb 8th 2010 11:37PM
I have seen nothing but trouble from shared accounts. I love how everyone says "I only share my account with close friends, and I have no idea how it got hacked. I know they wouldn't have given the password out." No, they didn't but they gave access to someone who did by acccident or design.
I also remember vividly a raider in one guild I belonged to who got sat down from raiding due to his incompetence. Mind you we were a very loose guild and tolerated a LOT. This guy however had a hard time logging in and out without screwing it up. His budddy came on to all his alts and went postal in Ironforge and on the guild channel until he got this guy and all his alts gkicked. Oh, and he never mentioned it was not the owner of the account. The buddy tried to be a butthead on vent, but we banned the IP, which was also the owners, not his.
Stephen Feb 8th 2010 7:28PM
Back when I ran a guild, one of the two rules that players had the MOST issue with was the rule that stated that "All actions performed by a character are attributed to that character, regardless of who is actually playing at the time." The biggest problem rule was "All members of the guild are human and should be treated as such. Any bigotry or hatred toward someone because of race, sex, nationality, sexuality, or any other issue out of their control is cause for immediate gkick." I mention this rule because it's particularly relevant as well.
Anyway... One group of brothers/cousins (depending on who you asked they had different relations to each other) in particular caused an issue. This was back in Naxx and the Torch of Holy Fire dropped from KT. Since we had PuG's it was rolled off, and an Elemental Shaman won it. He passed it to the next-highest rolling person, who was our Healing Lead. Our healing lead had been passed over for the Torch twice before by the Loot Council because he was the best geared person in the guild, though he was still using the Mace of Unrequited Love from HNexxus. One of our priests went ballistic at this point, calling our Healing Lead a lot of things related to his sexuality. I won't repeat it here. He also claimed that the Torch had been promised to him when the next one dropped.
When the officers discussed this, the decision was made to gkick the person. We informed him of the decision and removed him from the guild. He claimed to know nothing of the incident, and again went ballistic in much the same fashion. His brother then got on, and claimed it was their cousin (who was also in the guild) from Columbia who had been playing the toon at the time. Later the cousin came on and claimed it was his brother from Canada. (I swear I am not making this up, I'm not that creative). Our Healing Lead ended up ignoring all 3 of them, because they all started whispering him when he was on, calling him "f*g", "c***sucker", etc. He first reported them to Blizzard then sent me the screenshots he took. Blizz told him since it was in whispers they couldn't do anything (had to be in a public channel). I, however, invoked our number 1 rule and kicked them all out. Though the officers supported the decision before I did it, when the membership found out they claimed never to have been informed. It turned REAL ugly. Thus one of the reasons I won't lead a guild again.
TL:DR I agree that the toon bears the consequences of whoever is playing it. Too bad the players I have on my server don't have the maturity to act human.
scottbailey22 Feb 9th 2010 8:38AM
i agree with the zero tolerance policy
Kiliani Feb 9th 2010 2:25AM
I can't tell you the number of times I've seen stupid crap happen - ninjaing, horrible play from someone who's usually reasonably good, random gquits without a word, etc., only to have the person come back the next day and say "it wasn't me, it was my brother/cousin/roommate".
After a while you start thinking "Sure it was your cousin. Riiiight."
I personally wouldn't be comfortable with a situation like this post, with that many people sharing accounts - but I think no matter what, the person whose account it is should be held responsible for the actions of whoever they allow to play the account.
We had a guy in my old guild who everyone knew was a shared character - one individual played the pally during our raids, and then during the day and sometimes on weekends another person played the character. We all got to know both of them a bit, and since they were on a schedule we knew who we'd be getting most of the time. All was fine.
In my current guild, we actually gkicked a couple of guys who joined together - one as a raider, and one as a non-raider - because we found out that the non-raider buddy was not only in the habit of playing his raider friend's character (during one of our raids, no less), but he bragged about having access to at least 20 different people's accounts and playing them during raids for other guilds. He apparently made it a habit to sound out people who might be willing to let him play their account, and kept track of all their login info for as long as they didn't change the password. That one was a liability to have around.
scottbailey22 Feb 9th 2010 8:29AM
yeah i had the same problem in my guild.
i had a woman who had 4 level 80 toons that her children leveled up. and to cut a long story short. one of her kids was looking forward to heal and as im a 'homegrown' talent kind of guy i throw myself into helping her gear up etc. only to find out in the middle of the night she gquit without notice. leaving her mother and brother in the guild. now the awkward situation is made more... awkward by the fact her mother was an officer. so she had full access to everything and coupled by the fact her kids play her account. it throws all my trust in that person out of the window... luckly for me she had a very bad attitude so i had no choice to gkick her.
turns out she was a drama mamma!
yarf Feb 9th 2010 11:07AM
I haven't read all of the comments, but from my own experiences with account sharing, the only times I've been okay with it have fallen under the following circumstances:
My husband logs onto my character to accept a raid invite when I'm pulling into the driveway having rushed home after taking too long on an errand or something. This would go the other way as well except that my husband no longer raids.
My friends and their respective husbands probably log onto each others' accounts, and in those situations, I wouldn't expect less.
In my guild there is a father/son, brother/brother, and used to be a set of three brothers.
All of them could log in on other accounts to perform things for the guild. Son logging onto father's jewel crafter to cut a gem for a guildie, or in the case of the two brothers, we've had them both play each others' characters, and both are good at playing both toons.
However the son doesn't log on to play his father's toons, either because he was told he couldn't, or he doesn't feel comfortable. Except that they account xferred one of his father's toons to the son's account which then became one of the son's characters.
Those situations are perfectly fine with me. My husband doesn't play my characters, and for that I'm grateful. LOL I'm protective. Though if he needed flasks or something, I wouldn't care if he transferred mats to my alchemist and made them, then traded back.