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2-09-2010 @ 2:54PM
ya know, if I ran the IT server room like they do with no redundancy I would be fired we should not even notice these maintenance things... they should fail over to the second server while they do maintenance on the other servers. then once the maintenance is done roll us back onto the other server and then do server 2 .
2-09-2010 @ 3:24PM
You know, you have no idea how large their servers are. They have one of the largest server setups in the world. There is no way for them to "fall back" on a second set of servers without you noticing it.Comments like that piss me off, because it shows you have obviously no idea what you are talking about.
2-09-2010 @ 3:03PM
If you ran servers like they do, you would be fired in a heartbeat for one of two reason. Either you would be unable to keep up with hundreds of servers spread throughout the world, or you would be adamant about buying a few hundred extra servers just for weekly maintenance.
2-09-2010 @ 3:57PM
I'll never understand why you and others how make factual, real world statements as you have get marked down. Anyone who as done any kind of network operations/system administration work knows what you're saying is absolutely true especially since cluster technology has been an industry standard for years. Regardless of the situation, the slightest delay with just an in-house ETA for system maintenance would have someone in management asking why the system wasn't back up yet. If it were contract with an outcourced vendor for co-location or datacenter there'd be some serious talks about not meeting the terms of the SLA in regards to system uptime.In their defense, this probably has more to do with database maintenance and integrating some of the hotfixes made in the last couple of weeks. I've noticed several times that unexptected extended system maintenance has resulted in old in-game mail, and the AH glitching. Considering some the quest glitches that have shown up since 3.3 (one Outland quest in Forge Base: Gehenna tells you the item can only be used in Forge of Souls) sounds like they may have a bit of database corruption to weed out.
2-09-2010 @ 4:00PM
"When was the last time you saw Google, eBay, or Amazon go offline for maintenance? Never."Google:http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2341704,00.aspEbay:http://news.cnet.com/2100-1017-247479.htmlAmazon:http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2009/12/10/power-outage-for-amazon-data-center/
2-09-2010 @ 4:01PM
@Devv take your own advice about Googling "How not to be general d-bag." Redundancy is an industry standard yes, but the difference between Google's traffic and Blizzard game traffic is that Google's is a one time connection to their servers to get your information, this is a constant stream of data going back and forth. The bandwidth required to do the redundancy that dkim is talking about would be immense along with all the techs needed to make sure that switches alone all worked with that much traffic going through at once. It's also much easier in general to just update one set of servers in one shot than trying to update both sets of servers in different time frames all while trying to make sure that there are no problems with the redundant backups and basically, it's just not worth it for Blizzard to do it.Might want to Google "How not to be an ass" as well...just a thought.
2-09-2010 @ 4:04PM
@TR does Blizz even have an SLA for WoW? I'll admit i haven't read any of the ToS or anything...but I really can't imagine they do. Or are you talking about if they outsource their data centers? I mighta just misread, no sleep and cancer treatments make me a little hazy lol
2-09-2010 @ 9:17PM
I like internet arguments
2-09-2010 @ 4:22PM
Devv, from what I have heard, from someone who has seen the Blizzard datacenters, their servers rival some government server "setups". You harp on the term "server setup", it's a perfectly valid short term for people not used to "server farm", "server infrastructure", or "datacenter". If someone reads my post and wonders what the hell a "datacenter" is, they will understand "server setup".The amount of redundancy they have is ridiculous. The amount of data they process is enormous. Do you propose they dump TB's of data from each datacenter from the main servers into a "backup" server, then dump it back after the first set has maintainence? There is no way in hell you could do that without noticing it. The poster thinks they can do that without anyone noticing it. They can't. You don't notice some hotfixes because that doesn't concern dumping the entire database from one server to the next. Even if you run them so the info is mirrored, it would still require a dump from one to the next as people's stats get updated while they play on the "backup" servers. Shut up, and stop being an ass.Do you know what Google's server farm is? A shitload of off-the-shelf servers stuffed into cargo containers, with battery backups. Think I am kidding?http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10209580-92.html
2-09-2010 @ 4:23PM
I never see WoW go offline for maintenance either, because I am at work when it does, so I guess if you want to define "saw" as "Personally experienced" Then for me, and a lot of people who have morning/afternoon jobs, then Blizzard is right up there with Google, Amazon and ebay. In addition, your smarmy aggressive attitude doesn't change that fact that you obviously have no comprehension of the difference between a website farm and an MMO Farm.
2-09-2010 @ 4:38PM
"And try not to mis-quote me again. It just screams ignorance on your part. Then again, your entire comment does that for you."Actually, the only thing I quoted from you was the Google searches you recommended, and apparently I have to apologize for not saying "as you said, 'Does it take a butt-ton of bandwidth? Well, yes.'" Guess I should give proper credit where it is due. Other than that, there is no reason for Blizzard to do this redundant back up because they are not providing a 5 9's guarantee that PSTN/POTS has to keep up, since you so obviously aren't comparing apples to apples. Like Boogs just said, there is a massive difference between equipment requirements for information storage compared to that needed for a constant data stream that MMO's require. It's not "because they don't care," it's just simply not feasible and not worth it for 4 days a month. Believe it or not, people can live without WoW for a day.
2-09-2010 @ 5:01PM
Guys, settle down. I may not be a techie, but I do remember an article on this site about one technically-minded WoW Insider blogger talking to an unidentified Blizzard guy at a Blizzcon convention, possibly the 08 con, about the servers Blizzard uses. It was noted that they use the latest and most expensive hardware, and I seem to remember them saying it still wasn't enough. Yall can search the site to find the exact article if you want, and of course, the guy could've been anyone claiming to work for Blizzard, but I'd prefer to believe it.
2-09-2010 @ 5:23PM
Sigh, the big difference between Google, Amazon and Ebay and Blizzards operations is that nobody cares what server spits out your search results, what book you want to puchase, or the auction results.IOW, it's quite easy for those companies to have redudancy, the server doesn't matter. Is the situation the same for Blizzard?I don't think so.Oh it might be feasible to design their server setup to allow some sort of limited playtime, but I don't think the returns on that would match the costs expended. Most people can live without a day or so of WOW every now and then.
2-09-2010 @ 6:37PM
@Devv "People who have taken the time to remove our heads from our asses apparently aren't very popular around here." Nah, it's not so much that, as people who carry on like idiots, as you so graciously demonstrated in your reply. "You're a complete moron" ? Just because *you* think he's wrong? Didn't mummy ever teach you how to be civilised when conversing with others? Further, this stopped being an "educated discussion" when you started running YOUR mouth off in your posts. And didn't I see you tell someone to stop running their mouth off? Hypocritical, when that's basically all you've done. Evantill is spot on, you can correct someone, and even make a point without sounding like a total arsehole. Might wanna get started on that Google search, 'how not to be an ass'.Respect, and civility, truly are lost arts.
2-10-2010 @ 8:05AM
I would expect the decision on redundancy to be deliberate.Google loses ad revenue while its servers are down.Ebay loses auction listing revenue while its servers are down.Amazon loses its margin on book sales while its servers are down.Activision Blizzard loses a little goodwill from its users, but no hard cash while its servers are down.Activision Blizzard is a commercial organisation, and will do what is commercially sensible. Provided Blizzard offer a sufficiently good service to attract new players and prevent most existing players from quitting, they can do what they want with the servers. Even if long outages cause some people to /ragequitwow, if the lost revenue is lower than the extra costs they would incur to fix the problem, then overal they win.
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